I have a bunch of teachers and professors in my family; I get what you're saying. Teachers do get the shitty end of the stick quite a bit. That being said, they put themselves in this position all too often.

By defining what constitutes art or LITERATURE, you put yourself right in the crosshairs.

EDIT: Nevermind, just saw Sag's post.

I don't think I'm putting myself into the corss-hairs though :)

SuperflyTNT wrote:


Regardless of what any one person thinks constitutes literature, the fact remains that by the 6th or 7th grade most students in the US are going to be handed a novel that was picked by a state, town or school curriculum committee, and be expected to write a well formed essay with a thesis statement and supporting evidence. Students that haven't been exposed to a variety of different types of narrative styles are going to be at a disadvantage. Elementary teachers have the responsibility of providing the foundation for future education. That means getting their students to read and appreciate novels (or chapter books as the kids call them).

ubarose wrote:


This is exactly what I was thinking about the whole time.

In high school, if left to my own devices there's tons of important stuff I wouldn't have read or only read much later and been much 'poorer' for it . Hell, I never forgot how we were exposed to harold Pinter's writing and much more besides in Grade 10 because we had an excellent English/drama teacher who cared. Good or great teachers try to expand kids' horizons.

There are two different points being discussed in this thread. The one scissors brought up, and ubarose expanded upon, about the responsibility of a teacher to expand a student's knowledge and skill, is not (I think) being questioned. As Sag has made clear, it's also not the point.

This is, flat out, an individual using her power to suppress (and possibly shame out of existence) a thing she doesn't like. It is possible that the teacher feels constrained by some zero-tolerance policy, but it's more likely that she simply doesn't like it. (And frankly, ZTPs are generally about things people simply don't like, anyway.) It should be apparent to anyone dealing with the school system that many teachers use their position to enforce their political/moral/whatever-you-want-to-call-it views. And I'll bet all the money in my pockets against all the money in your pockets that that's what this is.

At any rate, Sag has a practical problem which needs solving. Using this as a teachable moment has value, but I'd personally make sure the kid understands that just because some people in authority don't like a thing doesn't make it wrong. As for the teacher herself, there's not much you can do except go to her with things you think your son might like and get her approval beforehand. That discussion will also clarify why she's doing what she is.

Bullwinkle wrote:


Or, alternatively, introduce him to Loter, who EMBODIES this principle. I mean, a guy who has pink wine in one hand, a microphone in the other, wearing a pink tank top about "All the boys love me" while bottomless AND in the process of marrying a gay couple....that's the man for this job. :)

I get what you're saying Bullwinkle but if it the teacher is really someone as petty and pushing her own agenda as blatantly as you suggest, I'd walk away from it...

I had a teacher like that too once and it was lose-lose for me :( It's nothing pleasant when you can feel that their personal biases, politics whatever are intruding over professionalism... but I wouldn't pursue it to the end. I more or less successfulyl manipulated my parents into taking my side against her... and I sure as hell didn't 'win' - she was a vengeful person (the other side of the coin of some of the great professional teachers I had later). I realise they are out there!

I would certainly tell the child that it's not wrong but that the person is setting out certain requirments that simply don't include your favourite books. He has to grin and bear it and use his own time to pursue the things he likes - I just don't see any other solution.

From what we know, I think uba and scissors have it right. It sounds more like the teacher is trying to diversify the young man's reading rather than squash something she doesn't like.

From the OP:
"My boy just came home to tell me that his teacher told him he could no longer do reading reports on his Warhammer 40K codex, which is one of things we've been able to get him to read."

If a student was working on their third or fourth paper on the 2004 Boston Red Sox, I'd expect the same behavior. Time to move on a bit with other book reports.

Jeff White wrote:

You conveniently cut out the actual reason, which Sag stated right after your quote:

Sagrilarus wrote:

Bullwinkle wrote:


I agree with everything you say here. Also, I am too easily baited by 'who has the right to define what is literature' type statements.