HeroQuest 25th Anniversary Edition

This seems pretty much another Full Metal Planète: Random person on the internet finds place of the Earth where someone's work is not protected and makes a bootleg copy of it.

The main difference is that instead of three French guys the pirate is pitting himself against the two most sue-happpy corporations of the hobby.


Anyways, what a dissapointment. At first I thought this was an actual Spanish publisher that decided to print it like they did with Escape from Coldtitz but it's clear this comes form just one random dude.

Generally, you can't sue where you don't actually own the rights. (EU IP laws can be funny, so there's probably a way if GW wanted to try. Ultimately, however, I'm pretty sure it's Hasbro, not GW, that owns this game, so it's up to them.) That's one reason why there won't be Femir figures in the set--that name itself is a piece of intellectual property that could be enforced. However, neither Hasbro nor GW can't trademark "Orc" or "barbarian" no matter how much they'd like to. (Hell, this is why all of GW's early lines had dopey names even though they were nothing but generic fantasy figures. You can actually protect "Bretonnian pikeman" even though they were nothing but bog-standard 30 Years Wars figures) They can block distribution if they really wanted to, but I doubt it's going to be worth the trouble.

The IP rights part of this is the *least* concerning. Valley Games might be (have been) a pile of shitheads, but I've got nice copies of both Titan and Hannibal in-hand. IP rights that go unenforced for long periods--much as Hasbro has completely ignored HQ for the last 15 years--can be circumvented with a bit of creativity. What's more concerning is the track-record of producing stuff that this cat already has. THAT is where your money is really at risk. The IP side? Pfffft. Almost entirely a non-issue.

Yeah, but how does that account for NO ONE involved in creating this game getting any kind of compensation for their work?

Oh wait...they're saying that the mechanics are going to be "updated".

So it may not actually be Heroquest, it may be Gamezone's idea of modernizing it. Which may or may not really be Heroquest after all.

THe whole thing is predicated on loopholes and working around the proper way to go about this kind of business, and there's a certain aura of "stickin' to the man" in some regard...I believe whoever the Gamezone guy is stated something like "GW can go down the tubes". I get a sense that this whole enterprise has to do with Gamezone guy looking at a Website and determining that he can _possibly_ get away with doing this. I love how in the Q&A on the Kickstarter he's asked about any possible legal issues. The response is more or less "there won't be any". And that's all.

I think it's very disrespectful to the people that made the game and the legacy of the game to just print up a "kind of like it" bootleg copy, make a million bucks, and laugh on the way to the bank.

So even if this squeaks by two sets of corporate lawyers and any actions that the original creators (whom are pretty much just written off by Gamezone) might want to pursue, the fact remains that this is literally a bootleg copy of the game. And you can't deny that there is a pervasive sense of shadiness about the whole thing.

Sure, if you buy a copy off Ebay Stephen Baker isn't getting any money and you're just paying a secondhand seller. But at least you're not paying someone that's profiteering off someone else's work on a classic game.

And Baker owns what rights? You pretend like creators actually retain rights when dealing with corporate behemoths. I dunno what the real backstory is there, but I wouldn't just presume that Baker would earn *shit* even if FFG decided to reprint it (kind of like Talisman, in fact. Did its creator even *know* it had been reprinted yet again by FFG/GW? You don't own the rights, you don't fucking matter. Period. Hell, this is why damn near every blues tune covered by anyone from the Rolling Stones to Led Zeppelin to Steve Miller during the 60s was written by "Trad. Arr." They didn't bother to track down the rights-holder when they could just slap "Traditional" on the label and move on.).

This thing is very shady, but there's a lot of assumptions you're making about the need for the creator to be involved in any fashion. In business, "doing the right thing" means staying just this side of the right side of the law and turning a profit. There are certainly a lot of ancillary factors that feed into that "turn a profit bit" like quality, customer service, and the like, but they're still ancillary nonetheless. Anything beyond those 2 points is a "nice to have," not a necessity. Mercenary, sure; but I'm not sure any other definition is defensible.

But yea, this is one of those projects I'm not at all comfortable with putting a nickel into. Considering I have a wall full of bootleg live recordings (and I'll bet you do too, Barnes) from artists ranging from NIN to the Grateful Dead, I could kind of give a shit about that part of the argument. I just don't think this thing is going to see the light of day.

Edit: As I reread your "creator's rights" bit, I'm struck by something: You know, for a guy who hates Phish and Bob Marley, you can be an astonishing fucking hippie at times, Barnes....

Michael Barnes wrote: Yeah, but how does that account for NO ONE involved in creating this game getting any kind of compensation for their work?

Oh wait...they're saying that the mechanics are going to be "updated".

So it may not actually be Heroquest, it may be Gamezone's idea of modernizing it. Which may or may not really be Heroquest after all.

THe whole thing is predicated on loopholes and working around the proper way to go about this kind of business, and there's a certain aura of "stickin' to the man" in some regard...I believe whoever the Gamezone guy is stated something like "GW can go down the tubes". I get a sense that this whole enterprise has to do with Gamezone guy looking at a Website and determining that he can _possibly_ get away with doing this. I love how in the Q&A on the Kickstarter he's asked about any possible legal issues. The response is more or less "there won't be any". And that's all.

I think it's very disrespectful to the people that made the game and the legacy of the game to just print up a "kind of like it" bootleg copy, make a million bucks, and laugh on the way to the bank.

So even if this squeaks by two sets of corporate lawyers and any actions that the original creators (whom are pretty much just written off by Gamezone) might want to pursue, the fact remains that this is literally a bootleg copy of the game. And you can't deny that there is a pervasive sense of shadiness about the whole thing.

Sure, if you buy a copy off Ebay Stephen Baker isn't getting any money and you're just paying a secondhand seller. But at least you're not paying someone that's profiteering off someone else's work on a classic game.

HeroQuest is essentially a dead game, that no one except for private owners are making money off these days. The original creators made a mass market game that was destined for the dumpster after it's initial splash on the holiday marketplace.

GameZone is an actual hobby game company who are doing this out of pure passion and nostalgia (and I'm sure they know they'll make a killing off it). I'd much rather put a beloved classic in the hands of other passionate gamers instead of corporate mass market cardboard dope pushers.

So, how do you know they have all this true passion and not just exploiting some legal loophole to make a quick buck? I know with the text they've provided on that female prisoner, this sure isn't in the spirit of the original HQ. I see no endorsements from the original designers or publishers. Barnes is right, this is nothing more than a bootleg or fan-made version.

If some friends and I make a Firefly fanfilm out in the woods can we call it the '10th Anniversary edition'?

A bootleg would be a verbatim copy. If the text is new and "not in the spirit", then how is this a bootleg again? Because it offends your sensibilities? Again, shady but not actually either a bootleg or on the wrong side of the law.

Jeff White wrote: If some friends and I make a Firefly fanfilm out in the woods can we call it the '10th Anniversary edition'?

Of course you can. You're celebrating the 10th anniversary of the original's release. *shrug* (There are a whole lot of things you *can't* do, for sure--and here's a real-world example: LucasArts sent a C&D letter to NHL goalie Ilya Bryzgalov telling him to change the color of Yoda's lightsabre on his mask's paint job as Yoda+green sabre=infringement. He could keep the image itself, but it couldn't be a 100% copy of the film image.) It's up to me to decide if it sucks enough to not be worth investing my time or money in seeing. Caveat emptor and all that jazz...

HeroQuest Kickstarter project just got served an intellectual property dispute!

www.kickstarter.com/projects/2113976860/...est-25th-anniversary

eekamouse wrote: HeroQuest Kickstarter project just got served an intellectual property dispute!

www.kickstarter.com/projects/2113976860/...est-25th-anniversary

Barnes wins!

Statement from GameZone

I think it's legit. Most interesting part for me is that if everything works out we may see HQ25 in stores in the U.S. next year.