Let's Talk Blood Bowl / Elfball / Dreadball / Etc.

One of the things I really like about Elfball is how the challenges (dice rolls) are resolved. You roll a number of dice equal to your stat value in a category (for example Skill when picking up the ball). The dice have X (bad), bullseye (good), blank sides, and star (good but also add another die roll). If I roll 3 dice to pick up the ball and get two successes when I only need one, I get +1 Momentum which is marked on a track on the side of the board. I can later use my stored Momentum to reroll dice or do a couple other neat things. If I get more Xs than successes I Flop and I can't use Momentum to reroll any dice. Flopping is generally funny and bad, and your player usually ends up fumbling or down on the field.

The build up of Momentum and being able to use it (when you don't Flop) is fun and risky. When you use Momentum to reroll you often still have a fair chance of rolling yourself into a Flop. Sometimes failing spectacularly via Flop causes a Shift in Momentum where your turn ends and the other player takes any remaining Momentum you had left and begins his turn.

Facing matters in Elfball, which is probably necessary due to the "move 1 player at a time" aspect. A player with an adjacent opponent facing him is engaged, and needs to make a disengage challenge to move. If you move through an opponent's forward arc you have to disengage for each hex. This makes positioning important; I spent some good effort trying to lock up my opponent's players by engaging them where I could with my defender-type players. It also means, if you have the speed, you can get behind a player and get a bonus when hitting him.

Generally, if opposing players are facing you you need more successes to do something, and if your teammates are facing you they help and you need less. Facing also matters for hitting other players and stuff like that.

If all that sounds complex it shouldn't, because it isn't. You just run around, hit players, shove players, try to grab the ball, throw the ball, and get it into the goal. You get to roll a bunch of dice but there's a lot of room for strategy. There are also a bunch of teams in the rulebook, league rules, skills, player advancement, etc. Haven't gotten into that yet.

Has Games Workshop completely disowned/abandoned Blood Bowl? I was going to go find the CRP rules, which I thought were free on their website, but it looks like they're gone without a trace.

I see a lot of community support for BB, and I was able to find the rules, but GW's practice of pretending products never existed bothers me. I just ran into the same issue when I found out they had put out some additional PDF material for Dreadfleet and now I can't find it or get it anywhere.

let me know if you need the latest living rulebook

wadenels wrote: Has Games Workshop completely disowned/abandoned Blood Bowl? I was going to go find the CRP rules, which I thought were free on their website, but it looks like they're gone without a trace.

They've more or less tried to forget the existence of all the Specialist Games line. Someone decided they weren't actually acting as gateway games to the 40k/Fantasy treadmill and instead worked as standalones, and that was deemed unacceptable.

I haven't played any of them, and I have no problem believing that Blood Bowl is the best "fantasy football" game, but it's hardly easily available nowadays. Yes, I can buy someone's badly painted team on eBay, but I can't buy new, metal, Specialist Games minis. So which of the currently-available-at-retail titles is the one to get? Or is BB really THAT much better that I should buy those hideous Impact minis?

I am under the impression that Dreadball does have a league format, but I've never played so I can't say for certain.

I've played in several BB leagues and played lots (and lots) of Fumbbl about 6 or 7 years ago. Blood Bowl is best in league format where your players progress and gain skills and injuries. There are also so many different races and teams, that there is a lot of opportunity to try new things. The way the turnovers work, where you miss a roll and then it becomes the other player's turn, adds a fir amount of tension and gives the feel of a real sport, where your plans do not always work.

Necromunda and Blood Bowl are by far the best games GW produced.

Even though GW is too stupid to support them, there are plenty of third party miniatures out there to create just about any race. Blood bowl teams Just cut some swords off your D&D guys and your good to go.

Wadenels- I also have a copy of the newest living rulebook that I could copy for you. I live in Minnesota so we could even meet-up somewhere and play a game.

I have never played any of the others, so not sure how much my opinion counts. I have played and own Crash Tackle. It is a Rugby board game made in South Africa.

I did find the latest (I think) BB rules, hopefully I'll have time to read through it soon.

Impact Miniatures has paper standees for a bunch of teams I ordered as well. I don't think I want to sink a bunch of money into proper minis yet. I would think I could use the paper teams in just about any fantasy football style game, as they aren't very large. Just not as pretty.

Great thread!
Fantasy sports may be my favorite board game genre. I own, and play, a lot.
1) Blood Bowl
2) Dungeon Bowl
3) Dreadball
4) Grind
5) Battleball
6) Kaosball
7) Dreadball Xtreme
8) Ultimate Dreadball
9) Blood Bowl: Team Manager
10) Magical Athlete

1) Blood Bowl is the first sports title I cut my teeth on. My second edition was bought at 1993's COScon outside of Pittsburgh, PA. I played the crap out of it during my freshman year at college, and in the summer after; I sold it off to upgrade to the third edition, plus a copy of Dungeonbowl and Deadzone. I played my first 4 man league in the summer of 1994, and am proud to say I won with the Wood Elves. Much much love for what is seemingly, the father of fantasy sports titles (I know there's another game or two that proceeded BB). Playing a bunch of "one off" games with the second edition was fun and mind blowing for a college kid that only played Heroquest/RIsk/Dungeon! and countless RPGs. But the third edition (and subsequent LRB) really make the game shine. League play is essential to get the most out of it. Its progressive nature really tapped into my experience and appreciation for RPG campaigning, and the great sculpts kept my fancy for cool toys alive. As others have mentioned, the rules are DEEP and there's a lot of reference checking. However, it works on it's own logic and once everyone is up to speed - a game can happen in 2 hours. ESPECIALLY when playing with the sand timer. My old school buddies and I loved screaming 'ILLEGAL PROCEDURE!!!' when one of us broke a rule. Turn over mate.

2) Dungeon Bowl was a fine, fine variant to the Blood bowl formula. Released during the 2nd edition of BB, it's components aren't nearly as polished as the 3rd edition - but it's charming as far as thin chipboard is concerned. Far more random and chaotic. I haven't played it nearly as much as the other titles, but if someone wants to come over to my house - I'll break it out. Amongst all of the dreams of GW re-releasing another edition of Blood Bowl, I actually think re-releasing Dungeon Bowl as a stand alone game with four complete teams (i.e. schools of magic (?)) would make perfect sense.

3) Dreadball is King Cocaine for the 21st century sports board/miniature game. I don't post on Fortress all that much, but when I do - it's usually singing the praises of Dreadball. Mantic has it's problems, I'm no apologist for them. But after all of my criticism of them and their Kickstarters, they have still made one hell of a game system. Others have already pegged Dreadball pretty well/accurately in this thread. I'll just say that as a old timey Blood Bowl fan, Dreadball was an easier "sell" to my gaming group. We'd start tabula rasa with a new game, and go from there. Since the stuff delivered in Q4 of 2012, we've played little else (a few games of Chaos in the Old World, Spartacus, Coup, Eclipse, and Wiz-War). We're already on season three, and we're looking forward to season 4 where we'll be picking each other's team (i.e. the worst teams out of the current 12). My six man league shared costs, and the joint ownership of everything Mantic has produced for the line is pretty staggering. To reiterate some thoughts from others (plus a few of my own) that make Dreadball work for us: 1] it's fast, 60 minutes a game 2] it's progressive (league play, obviously) 3] it's offensively driven 4] it's supported by the manufacturer.

4) Grind... I want to like this game very much, but I just can't get there. Maybe I need to play it more. The toy factor is very high, and as a hobbyist - I think I keep it around so that one day I can mount magnets into the arm sockets and paint this sucker up. The miniatures are nicely detailed albeit with a soft(er) plastic. From what I remember (someone please correct me if I'm wrong); the rules are deep, the dice pools are large, and the game moves at a sluggish pace for a pitch that only holds a ten players (5 v 5). Still, Privateer Press did release some league play rules and a four player variant. Because I clearly have some sort of illness, I keep my eyes open for another internet sale so I can pick up a second copy for less than 20 bucks.

5) Battleball is a charming 'Bloodbowl Lite' title from Hasbro/MB. The same sculptor who cranked out a lot of the early Heroscape minis made the teams for Battleball, and conversions are easy. Easy if you can grab a second copy. You'll want to keep the first copy to play the game. If it's too light, Mr Bistro made some advanced rules that are pretty fun.

6) I went whole hog with Kaosball after my gaming group had so much fun with Eric Lang's Chaos in the Old World. It was like catnip for me: sports title, good designer, pop culture satire with the teams/MVPs, high toy factor... I got my crate of goods a few months ago, and I've only played two games. I guess my mind is stuck on the Dreadball express lane, 'cause I can't pull over for Kaosball. I think my primary reservations have already been mentioned; it's less a goal driven football/soccer/basketball/hockey game as it is a area control game. I do like the card mechanic. I need to spend more time with it. Again, if anyone wants to come over to DC - we can play with my copy.

7) As Mantic seems to model its business by aping everything Games Workshop has produced, so it goes with Dreadball Xtreme. To me, this seems to be the Mantic response to Dungeon Bowl, as Dreadball is to Blood Bowl. But Jesus H. Christ is you mention this to anyone on the Mantic boards. Apparently, I'm a grade A ass clown for thinking this way. It's not a complaint from my end as much as an observation - but whatever. My Dreadball League went whole hog into this Kickstarter as well (with one or two expressing concern). I can't imagine Xtreme will replace our "normal" Dreadball games, but we are expecting to receive another twelve teams that will be compatible between both games.

8) Dreadball Ultimate is just a big, multiplayer game of Dreadball. It's occasionally fun to experiment with, but I can't imagine anyone in their right mind wanting to play this regularly. Regarding my league; we play Ultimate once as a post season "all star" match. Six of us playing with our experienced teams takes three hours.

9) Blood Bowl Team Manager is a card game. To this day, I have a hard time making the mental adjustment that I'm playing a sports title with cards instead of miniatures. To that end, I'd always rather play a game of Blood Bowl or Dreadball before a game of BBTM. On the other hand, I'd rather play BBTM than Dreadball Ultimate. So there you go. BBTM is fun, the team options are getting better and better, and unlike GW, FFG is supporting it. Because it's FFG, you get a table filled with obligatory piles of chits/tokens that drive my OCD through the fucking roof. I wish to hell this game played in less than an hour with four players, because it would see a lot more action.

10) Michael Barnes recommending Magical Athlete, and it was the last thing I purchased through Tanga. I had my reservations even after punching the athletes and sleeving the cards, but damn was I wrong. This game is great. The drafting is fun, the races are fun, the characters are fun, the price is "fun" (because it was less than 15 bucks), and it sees a lot of action with my "non-gamer" friends. They request it more than anything else, and I'm happy to oblige. The components are almost comically incompetent, but I suppose that gives it some sort of weirdo charm.

That's all I got.

You got a lot there mate.

if you're looking for the BB competition rules, you can find them here:
www.thenaf.net/blood-bowl/rules/

drewcula wrote: 5) Battleball is a charming 'Bloodbowl Lite' title from Hasbro/MB. The same sculptor who cranked out a lot of the early Heroscape minis made the teams for Battleball, and conversions are easy. Easy if you can grab a second copy. You'll want to keep the first copy to play the game. If it's too light, Grungebob (?) made some advanced rules that are pretty fun.

I think the advanced rules you're referencing are Mr Bistro's , and they're a really nice addition to the game. Gives it more of an American Football feel and makes it feel more like you're constructing plays than just moving a guy. Definitely recommended.