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Song of Blades and Heroes

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25 Feb 2008 11:50 #3341 by Mr. Bistro
I just recently got into this game and have been pimping it every chance I get. It's a set of generic skirmish rules for fantasy miniatures of any brand or scale. The rules are simple to learn and use, there are some great tactical choices to make, and the download is only $4. There is also an expansion called Song of Gold and Darkness that incorporates dungeon delving. If you're looking for a way to use anything in your fantasy miatures collection, or if you're a fan of dungeon games, I highly recommend this.

You can get it at wargamesdownloads.com among others.

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18 Dec 2012 15:37 #139802 by Stormcow
So, I've been looking for a good ruleset that will let me field my Lego army men (and orcs and skellies and so forth) in battle. Something light, simple, and quick to set-up (sorry, Heroscape), preferably scalable to large battles, 20-30 figures per side. Bonus points if has rules for mounted and/or giant-sized figures.

I'm looking at Song of Blades and Heroes - this one seems to not have made a big splash, but (as far as I can tell), everyone who talks about it, likes it. The revised PDF is on ganeshagames for $8, and I'm right on the edge of buying it - does anyone want to talk me down before I pull the trigger?

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18 Dec 2012 16:40 #139808 by Bull Nakano

Stormcow wrote: So, I've been looking for a good ruleset that will let me field my Lego army men (and orcs and skellies and so forth) in battle. Something light, simple, and quick to set-up (sorry, Heroscape), preferably scalable to large battles, 20-30 figures per side. Bonus points if has rules for mounted and/or giant-sized figures.

I'm looking at Song of Blades and Heroes - this one seems to not have made a big splash, but (as far as I can tell), everyone who talks about it, likes it. The revised PDF is on ganeshagames for $8, and I'm right on the edge of buying it - does anyone want to talk me down before I pull the trigger?


Well, SoBaH is designed for small skirmishes, ideally between 7 and 15 figures per side. there's nothing to stop you with playing 20-30 figure armies, though it's noted in the rules this would add playtime, i'm guessing because there are no squads.
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18 Dec 2012 19:26 #139822 by Bull Nakano
I was on my way out, but let me elaborate, this is a really good set of rules for a fantasy skirmish. It balances wanting both high and low rolls at different times. It feels a little like old Mage Knight, though without facing for melee combat, and it's abilities offer a wide range of customisation (think kind of like X-wing, this character has "huge" and "flying" and it costs XX pts to add them when building). This allows for a wide variety of thematic abilities, and the seem pretty well balanced. The fact that you can use any mini ever is fantastic. It's similar to Heroscape in the regard that you can build a Heroscape unit, but this actually give you guidelines and values for how to do so. If you're looking for a rules light tabletop fantasy skirmish game, you should really check this out. If you have any questions just post here.
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18 Dec 2012 22:27 - 18 Dec 2012 22:28 #139837 by SuperflyPete

Stormcow wrote: So, I've been looking for a good ruleset that will let me field my Lego army men (and orcs and skellies and so forth) in battle. Something light, simple, and quick to set-up (sorry, Heroscape), preferably scalable to large battles, 20-30 figures per side. Bonus points if has rules for mounted and/or giant-sized figures.

I'm looking at Song of Blades and Heroes - this one seems to not have made a big splash, but (as far as I can tell), everyone who talks about it, likes it. The revised PDF is on ganeshagames for $8, and I'm right on the edge of buying it - does anyone want to talk me down before I pull the trigger?


I've never played it; I don't really like most fantasy skirmish games, but I do know that a game was made specifically for legos:
brikwars.com/

And it's really fun.
Last edit: 18 Dec 2012 22:28 by SuperflyPete. Reason: F/un!
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19 Dec 2012 01:11 - 19 Dec 2012 01:11 #139845 by luckyb0y
I don't know about the original Song of Blades and Heroes, but these two are supposedly based on the same ruleset an both are super cool:

Songs of Our Ancestor

Deep Wars
Last edit: 19 Dec 2012 01:11 by luckyb0y.
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19 Dec 2012 04:31 #139848 by Sevej
Replied by Sevej on topic Re: Song of Blades and Heroes

Stormcow wrote: So, I've been looking for a good ruleset that will let me field my Lego army men (and orcs and skellies and so forth) in battle. Something light, simple, and quick to set-up (sorry, Heroscape), preferably scalable to large battles, 20-30 figures per side. Bonus points if has rules for mounted and/or giant-sized figures.

I'm looking at Song of Blades and Heroes - this one seems to not have made a big splash, but (as far as I can tell), everyone who talks about it, likes it. The revised PDF is on ganeshagames for $8, and I'm right on the edge of buying it - does anyone want to talk me down before I pull the trigger?


No, it won't work with SoBH as it is. The core of SoBH is the activation roll. To move a figure you nominate a figure, then choose to roll 1d6 to 3d6. For each roll equal to or above the figure quality, you get 1 action. However, if you fail 2d6, your turn ends.

The game works really well and add some boardgame sensibilities with the activation system. If you have 5 figures and fail on the 2, 3 or 4th figure you have only a handful of figures that don't move. Now with 20-30 per side, if you fail on the 2, 3, or 4th figure, you'll have most of your gang out of the game.

With modifications it may work (place figures into groups and activate based on groups), but as it is, no.
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19 Dec 2012 13:11 - 19 Dec 2012 13:13 #139855 by edulis

Mr. Bistro wrote: There is also an expansion called Song of Gold and Darkness that incorporates dungeon delving. If you're looking for a way to use anything in your fantasy miatures collection, or if you're a fan of dungeon games,


How does the dungeon delving work? Still skirmish rules with one player controling the delvers and one the beasties in the dungeon? Or is there a game master or does each group have delvers and monsters?
Last edit: 19 Dec 2012 13:13 by edulis.

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19 Dec 2012 15:06 #139867 by Stormcow
Thanks for all the feedback guys!

I am down with "feels like Mage Knight", I used to be really into that game. Until I got frustrated with balance issues - almost all melee units were crap, and expansions would always have one overpowered rare that would warp the metagame... so I guess my question would be, is SoBaH better balanced? Simple rules plus lots of customization sounds like it might be easy to break the game. I am hoping that there is gameplay on the tabletop, not just in army construction.

Not scaling to large battles is a big minus, but it's not entirely a dealbreaker. It's just that I already have a lot of games in the 3-10 figure scale. I am feeling pretty ambivalent at this point.

I did also consider Brikwars - thanks for the suggestion, Pete. But I get the feeling that it's a little soft on rules, and high on effort = not really what I was looking for. Feel free to tell me otherwise though!

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20 Dec 2012 09:34 #139939 by Sevej
Replied by Sevej on topic Re: Song of Blades and Heroes
Well, there's this thing with the newer rulesets, that they tend to emphasize more on activation, reaction, and morale. With SoBH, the focus in the activation.

Sure it's got plenty special rules to craft your favorite fantasy combatant, but the meat is in the activation and that dilutes the imbalances caused by figure stats and special rules.
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20 Dec 2012 14:14 - 20 Dec 2012 14:14 #139946 by evilgit
If you can live with the smaller groups (15 is fine) then I'd say get it. It's loads of fun to play and there are some decisions to be made during play. Not as much as a real boardgame but more than most minis games.
I know there are people playing with more figs, on the order of 30 but I'm not sure how they are doing it as it doesn't interest me.
I started up a blog when I first got the game and gave a pictorial walk through of my first two games. And then promptly gave up blogging.
Orc Attack
Last edit: 20 Dec 2012 14:14 by evilgit.
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20 Dec 2012 15:56 #139950 by SuperflyPete
15 and 20mm is SO MUCH CHEAPER to get into than 28mm, and the scale just looks better on a table, IMHO.

Good painting, Evil!

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20 Dec 2012 16:42 #139954 by Stephen Avery
Nice blog. I'm kinda interested in the game but it looks like a lot of stalling out and hoping the figs actually do what you're planning. I'd like something a bit more cinematic perhaps.

Steve"picky"Aver

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20 Dec 2012 17:29 #139958 by evilgit

Stephen Avery wrote: Nice blog. I'm kinda interested in the game but it looks like a lot of stalling out and hoping the figs actually do what you're planning. I'd like something a bit more cinematic perhaps.

Steve"picky"Aver

It can be but I see that as a selling point. I've played enough minis games where you have an omnipotent view of the battle field and solider do exactly what you want. There is no drama there.
SoBH has drama, tense moments, cheers of jubilation and screams of frustration.
If you don't like risk management then it's not the game for you.

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21 Dec 2012 00:32 #140003 by Sevej
Replied by Sevej on topic Re: Song of Blades and Heroes
I think tabletop wargaming is starting to take bits from boardgames and wargames. Look at the latest "hot" rules. Bolt Action uses dice pull (similar to chit pull) for activation. SAGA uses dice allocation on a board to trigger skills. Too Fat Lardies rules (e.g Dux Britanniarum) have been known to use card activation not unlike Commands and Colors.

SuperflyTNT wrote: 15 and 20mm is SO MUCH CHEAPER to get into than 28mm, and the scale just looks better on a table, IMHO.


Agreed! 15mm stuff are a whole lot cheaper, there's bunch of miniature choices (you've got to see the awesome that is demonworld 15mm miniatures!!!) and they are fast to paint, so long as you don't use the methods for 28mm. I have a small number of 15mm for post apocalyptic gaming.

Me? I've gone as low as 10mm for fantasy mass game (HOTT).

dl.dropbox.com/u/34559052/hotthumanfinisharmy.jpg

And interested in going to 3mm for combined modern arms modern combat!

Nice blog. I'm kinda interested in the game but it looks like a lot of stalling out and hoping the figs actually do what you're planning. I'd like something a bit more cinematic perhaps.


The most cinematic rules that I've ever read are the rules from the Two Hour Wargames. Unfortunately, not only they're difficult to wrap around your hand, even with the massive improvement in the rules writing lately, you have to fill in the gaps on your own quite a bit. It's very different from other rules, that it deals more with how different types of character react in combat, not on the multitude of gears, weapons, armors, and special rules.

Usually miniature rules are you move, and you shoot. Or probably move twice or shoot twice. Not in THW rules. You move, you see opponents. Figures shoot, some faster than the others, but not always. Some figures lay dead. Some run to cover. Some stays. As long as hostile figures are within LOS of each other, they keep shooting (or may be they duck back next turn... who knows?). Groups get separated. Really fun.

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