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- Deadzone - Tile-based miniatures game by Jake Thornton
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Deadzone - Tile-based miniatures game by Jake Thornton
It's a skirmish game set in Mantic Warpath universe. The interesting thing is, it's a game in close confined area. Game is played on a 24" x 24" area, with lots of building. It's using 3" x 3" grid for movement and shooting (most weapons ranges are unlimited, except for pistols and the like). Very similar to a game idea I had, about gangs of the future duking it out in dystopian metropolis.
What interest me most is the way it handles line of sight. When you move your figure, you can put it anywhere on the 3" x 3" space, and it uses actual line of sight like Heroscape. LoS is binary, either you see it or not. Unlike Heroscape, every bit of the model is counted, including the base. If you are in a space denoted as in cover, you gain cover. If a model can see another model totally, it's considered to have a clear shot. To make things simple, the attacker can gain clear shot bonus while at the same time the defender is gaining cover bonus.
A lot of the design notes are on www.quirkworthy.com/ Very interesting read.
www.kickstarter.com/projects/1744629938/...iniatures-board-game
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The LoS rule seems like something that could be houseruled to any system.
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- SuperflyPete
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I like the 3D sci-fi terrain they're coming out with, I'd buy some of that, but the game itself doesn't seem that novel or interesting.
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- metalface13
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Sevej wrote: Let's just say it's Necromunda for the current generation.
Does it have a campaign mode where your guys level up, learn new skills, get seriously injured and can buy better equipment?
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- SuperflyPete
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Sevej wrote: It's a skirmish game set in Mantic Warpath universe. The interesting thing is, it's a game in close confined area. Game is played on a 24" x 24" area, with lots of building. It's using 3" x 3" grid for movement and shooting (most weapons ranges are unlimited, except for pistols and the like). Very similar to a game idea I had, about gangs of the future duking it out in dystopian metropolis.
Now that I can post something more useful, let me throw some stuff out here: Virtually all next-gen (meaning most anything NOT GW-branded) is set in 2x3 or 3x3 battlespaces. Combat Zone from EM-4 ( www.em4miniatures.com/acatalog/Combat_Zone_products.html ) is one of the first post-Mordheim/Necro games to take hold in the miniatures arena. Mutants and Death Ray Guns, Atomic Cafe 1957, After the Horsemen, Strange Aeons, Nuclear Renaissance, Wreck-Age, and a bazillion others are like this.
With regard to LOS, this isn't novel either, as almost all miniatures games use true LOS unless they're hex/grid based games, in which case they generally have grid based rules. Heroscape was one of the first games to hybridize the two distinct rule sets with true LOS as well as hex-based movement. What I DO like about LOS in Heroscape is that models are thought to have 360 degree LOS, provided their head can "see" any part of an enemy's targetable areas. I think the idea of being able to target a base is just kind of ridiculous and takes away from the realism of a game.
I'm not aware of a "grid based" movement system where you can move into any area within a 3" square, so that's new, but I'm not sure how it fits into an overall gamespace. I'd have to see how it handles 3D environments (can you move from level 1 to level 3 in a building if it's one 3" space away?). I like the idea of simplifying movement away from rulers, but the downside is that it requires you to have a 3" square-marked mat, and it also makes using someone else's terrain products less viable.
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Allowing all parts to be accounted for shooting simplifies a lot of things. Some models can be weird on when the base ends and the model begins.
Model placement within 3" grids is vital. You can even place it over the grid lines as long as the model center is on the chosen grid, allowing corner shooting. It is nothing innovative, but when you put them together it feels really slick. I had a chat with Jake on his blog, discussing about grid system, and we both agree that grid based LOS can be very complex, especially with multi level battlefield. His solution cut through lots of thing and prett easy to eyeball.
Movement is actually very simple. With 1 move action, you can move 1 space and also move upor down 1 level, as long as there's a wall to climb.
3" grid mat is actually very easy to acquire these days especially with all those star wars maps.
The alpha rulebook is available online. Somewhere.
@metalface
Yes there will be campaign. I'm curious on how Jake will solve this.
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- SuperflyPete
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It sounds like you're willing to overlook some things to justify liking the game, and that's cool. We all do that. I'm not saying it's going to be bunk or anything, I'm just saying that in a sea of games, the only thing "new" here is the grid-based movement, and I'm not really keen on it.
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- metalface13
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Sevej wrote: @metalface
Yes there will be campaign. I'm curious on how Jake will solve this.
Now I'm listening.
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If you think grid-movement is the only thing new here, you are sorely mistaken. Dust Tactics uses grid and I didn't think it was special either. But the combination of grid, free movement within grid and true LoS is what makes the recipe. On their own, these mechanisms are nothing usual, but together they are special.
Very few miniature games go into the realm of claustrophobic battlements. Because they know the rules can be difficult, and providing terrain for such game can be troublesome. Look at infinity. Everyone wants that cool city table. Very few will actually have it. And even Infinity has its quirks. I really don't like how models respond to individual activations and they always get a shot. Most tabletop miniatures are on pretty open table. Not many provide the challenge of room-to-room sweeping, which actually allows from pretty detailed movement within/between buildings. With rulers? I'll be damned if i have to measure every time I make that u-turn.
And what do i exactly overlook? Mind you I'm not backing this KS and will not likely do so. But I do admire the designer's approach on designing the game. On scope, it's very similar on what I'm developing. If it's about the targetting bases, it's one of daring decisions that the designer made, and actually simplifies a lot of things. Even Warmachine & Hordes use bases to project the imaginary cylinder required for line of sight. So it's really nothing new.
There are rules for suppression also, and you can actually target a space when you want to.
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grrrrrrr
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- SuperflyPete
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I'd add that I've ~always~ played miniature wargames, since I was a kid. It's the one true love I never could quit. Like Leadback Mountain or something. And I've always "kept up" with the small press stuff, since that's the reason I really wanted to start the Circus...to help small press guys get some notice. But most of the BGG and F:AT crowd is more into board games, and I like board games quite a lot as well, obviously, so that's what I wrote about most because that's what readers wanted to read.
If you think grid-movement is the only thing new here, you are sorely mistaken. Dust Tactics uses grid and I didn't think it was special either. But the combination of grid, free movement within grid and true LoS is what makes the recipe. On their own, these mechanisms are nothing usual, but together they are special.
For what it's worth, Ex Illis has grid movement too, I was referring to the grid movement and free placement within the grid. I still think it's not all that shit hot, especially considering that facings don't matter.
Now about this whole idea that there's no 'room clearing' game out there, this has to be some sort of joke. SKANK is one of many games that has rules for indoor battles, for a contemporary one that gives rules for indoor explosions, buildings collapsing, buildings on fire, and whatnot.
Also, the idea that somehow most miniatures games are played on an open table is also kind of odd. If you're talking about Lord of the Rings or Epic or something, sure. But Mordheim is a great example of a game that's quite old and is all about close quarters and tight alleys.
Targeting spaces isn't new either. Skank gives rules for that, as well as a template, for instance. Same with Mutants and Death Rays, or for that matter, most games with indirect fire. I like suppression rules in military games as well.
I guess what this game is, in a nutshell, is a 150$ version of Skank or Combat Zone, or even Mercs to a degree, but with grid movement.
Like I said, I'm sure it's a darling game with nice little miniatures, it's just not something I'd pay for. I might buy the rulebook or sci fi terrain kits, but that's about as far as that goes.
http://www.skankgame.com/ztgame.html
SKANK
Combat Zone
Strange Aeons
Mordheim
One day I'll post some of my pics. Sadly I don't take many pictures of tables I've set up.
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