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Let's Talk Star Trek Attack Wing

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20 May 2014 17:51 #178522 by Bull Nakano
So, a while back after wave 3, I think, of X-Wing, I saw what was coming for the game, and decided to step back from it as an active consumer. I still love the game, but the ships that were being released were EU ships or the epic scale ships just didn't appeal to me, because what I wanted was a quick and dirty STAR WARS game, and EU ships don't scream Star Wars to me, and "epic scale" doesn't scream quick and dirty (not to mention those ships prices are crazy!).

So a few weeks ago there was a sale on early Attack Wing stuff and I bit, going in for a starter, 2 fed ships, and 2 Klingon ships. I decided I'd just stick to these two factions, since Feds would bring all the familiar characters from the shows and films, and the Klingons were my favourite faction to play in the old Trek CCG, so I was familiar with their ships and characters as well.

I'm really digging Attack Wing, I think the customisation is much stronger than X-Wing (which I still love), I haven't picked up any other ships yet, but I plan to eventully. I'm most excited about the Borg faction, because I think it would be fun to take a Borg cube fully loaded against a fleet.

But as I look at the release schedule for Attack Wing, I don't know where the can go past this fall. They'll have brought in all the important Fed ships, there's not a ton of Klingon ships to work with, and I'm seeing this game hitting the same wall that X-Wing did. I guess that's not a bad thing for me as a player/purchaser, it's just odd they'd burn through the ships as fast as they have been (almost a wave a month).

What's everyone else's thoughts on AW?

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20 May 2014 18:38 #178525 by Michael Barnes
Attack Wing is great, but the more I played it the more I felt like it actually wasn't all that different than X-Wing. Not enough to be invested in both games. There are definitely nuances, but in the long run it _is_ the same system and it effectively feels like you're playing a "mod" of X-Wing. And I'm not really sure that the system feels right for Star Trek, aside from emphasizing crew.

You know, when I think about the things I really love about Trek, martial matters are not among them. Trek is about discovery, exploration, futurism, exoticism, diplomacy and a generally positive sense of adventure. Although there is business like the Dominion War (which is really very not-Trek) and big threats like the Borg and the warmongering Klingons, I never really think of Trek as ships darting around to get the other ships into a firing arc. Battle is always a secondary thing.

Star Wars is a war story, and it just works better as a dogfighting system (with a couple of really too-big ships that are optional). Because you're looking at single-seat fighters, the "missions" in Attack Wing (which were one of the main things I liked a lot about it) don't make as much sense. But you can still do story missions and campaigns. We did a game not that long ago where Lando was on an Imperial shuttle getting his ass locked up and it was up to the Falcon and a small escort to disable the shuttle and get him onboard. It just depends on what you want to do with it.

But I _do_ like combat with Trek ships...I think I like FedCom better than AW for that though, even though the ships feel like tanks. All of the energy management, specific damage locations/effects and so forth (beyond the damage deck) make it feel more Trek-like than AW does.

I dunno, if I had unlimited money I'd want both because it IS fun to bust out a couple of Klingon ships and duke it out with the Enterprise and Reliant...but in the end, X-Wing works with this system a little better.

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20 May 2014 19:03 #178526 by hotseatgames
I have no business being in here but I wanted to say I'm very interested in the D&D version of this that's coming out. That is all.

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20 May 2014 19:21 #178527 by Bull Nakano
Yeah, Trek really fits more in a Firefly style adventure game than it does a war game. Expeditions had an alright system for a trek game, but it really felt narrow itself. Has anyone played Fleet Captains? It's been pretty well received but again, for some reason, seems like a highly confrontational game rather than a game about exploring and solving problems.

I mentioned the old Trek CCG, and being 2p only, obviously had confrontation, but the game was about flying around and solving missions, that's what a trek game should be about.

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20 May 2014 19:36 #178528 by jgriff
I prefer Attack Wing to X-Wing and even though the systems are similar, there is a huge difference in feel. Everything is bigger in Attack Wing and combat feels more attritional. In X-Wing, it seems like either nothing happens or a ship blows up in a single hit. In Star Trek, generally you chip down ships.

I enjoy the fleet building more as there a slew of comparable options. To an X-Wing player, imagine every ship is like the Falcon. Lots of optional slots and choices - which Captain, which Crew, which Cannons, etc.

In X-Wing, a good player can probably beat a lesser player even if he has a "stronger" list. That's less so in Attack Wing. The out-of-game fleet building feels more like Magic or Warhammer. There are alot of combinations that play of each other.

TO answer Bull - Fleet Captains is great. It's not too combat oriented at all. I've seen games where the Federation has won without firing a shot. There are different mission types and whereas alot Klingon ships are built for battle, all three sides have alot of science ships which are trying to do peaceful things for the VPs.

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20 May 2014 20:55 #178532 by Msample
I only played Fleet Captains once, but liked what I saw. As usual, the Whiz Kids crappy components though. I can't justify the retail price, but keep an eye peeled for a cheap used copy.

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20 May 2014 21:34 - 20 May 2014 21:37 #178535 by VonTush
I have played close to 50 games of Attack Wing and the majority have been in organized play.

It is hard to mention one without the other, but I'll try to avoid comparisons to the other outside of saying that after many games of both I still can't pick a favorite.

What is very appealing with Attack Wing is the level of customization you can do. Pure vs Mixed factions. Era specific if you want to go that route. Mission or straight battle. Mixed factions with pure fleets. It allows you as a player to find the level that you like and are comfortable with.

An aspect that has been disappointing as the game moves along is that these one off ships pretty much make playing faction pure as a fleet impossible. The OP I've been running has made a change to ship pure but mixed faction. And after the next two single episodes I have a feeling that I'm going to have to make it mixed and just leave it at that.

As far as the release schedule, it has been aggressive and I'd like it to slow down a bit. Right as I'm figuring out what to do with the new stuff, the next wave is out. I also don't want to see the game continue into perpetuity. After what has been announced comes out, I'd like to see them taper down and perhaps focus on D&D: Attack Wing.

Regarding gameplay, what has impressed me is the way that the ships really have differentiated themselves as far as movement capabilities. If you're taking a school bus into battle you really have to figure out how you're going to support it in the event something gets behind it. Every ship not being able to just flip around adds an interesting layer to the maneuvering component.

I do wish Agility played a little more factor in the game. As it stands if you're looking to kill your opponent what you want to do is find out ways to add attack dice and ways to modify those attack dice into hits. Because when you're tossing just a few Agility Dice in defense those hits get through.

There's ganking cards where you steal stuff or disable stuff from opponent's ships, but they are so situational that most all of them just don't see play. Same goes for a lot of the situational cards or cards that don't have a high point to potency ration. So in reality though you have hundreds of cards to chose from when you're doing mixed fleets combined with the often used goal of killing your opponent, really only 10-25% see regular play.

There is also a lot of loose and inconsistent terminology used on cards which is disappointing. So cards that do the same or close to the same effect are worded differently and at times causes some confusion.

Overall I think the maneuvering is very compelling to the game. It isn't about keeping your squad in formation, it is about getting the enemy inside your fire arc but you outside of theirs. The beefy nature of the capital ships and how they wear down is fun, but too often I find the critical damage to be pretty inconsistent as to it being applicable and impactful. The fleet building is the highlight though. There's just so much you can do and so many ways to tailor the game.

Sorry...Got long. Hope it was worth the read.
Last edit: 20 May 2014 21:37 by VonTush.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Michael Barnes, Bull Nakano

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20 May 2014 22:07 #178537 by Michael Barnes
Mixing factions is the devil's work.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Msample

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20 May 2014 22:42 #178539 by Msample

Msample wrote: I only played Fleet Captains once, but liked what I saw. As usual, the Whiz Kids crappy components though. I can't justify the retail price, but keep an eye peeled for a cheap used copy.


Now I see there is a second expansion the works:

www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgameexpansion...et-captains-dominion

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20 May 2014 23:03 - 20 May 2014 23:08 #178540 by VonTush

Michael Barnes wrote: Mixing factions is the devil's work.


Yeah, I agree. The problem is now the factions are so imbalanced and there are no foreseeable plans to bring them into balance.

Federation has way more ships in the works than any other. The Klingons have enough to work with and stay competitive, but pure they're pretty dry. I think Wizkids hate the Romulans because they just feel so...Meh. And the Dominion are just an alliance of Dominion, Cardassian and Breen which in my opinion, and the way they have just one or two ships with some factions, should have each been their own faction but I guess they needed four core factions.

What I'd really like is something pretty structured as far as mixing fleets, but really anything gets too convoluted. So slowly I'm resigning to the fact that for the sake of making the game interesting the theme has to be pushed aside a bit.

EDIT: Really though, this balance is only an issue in the competitive scene. Casual mission play and you can make pure factions work swimmingly.
Last edit: 20 May 2014 23:08 by VonTush.

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20 May 2014 23:03 - 20 May 2014 23:04 #178541 by Bull Nakano
Harkening back to the trek ccg again, if you wanted to mix factions there, you'd have to play a treaty card, I could see this working in attack wing, costing some number of points and allowing ships from two factions and crews to fly together at no penalty.

Other than that I really wouldn't want to mix faction ships that didn't make sense (like a bajoran ship in a fed fleet). Wiz kids is too lose. I like the rules for using out of faction crew/upgrades a lot though.
Last edit: 20 May 2014 23:04 by Bull Nakano.

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18 Nov 2014 12:09 #190900 by VonTush
Continuing my trend of thread Necromancy I summon...Attack Wing this time!

So right now ST:AW is going through a bit of a shake-up. Wizkids launched a rules forum to ask questions, after a few days and only a handful of questions answered they said they were going silent saying they'd be back in a week or so answering questions again.

Well yesterday was the day and boy did they make an appearance! Dozens of questions now have been answered, past rules decisions have been overrode and there's been some pretty substantial changes that are going to take quite a while to filter down through the forms and into the community.

What it seems like to me is that for the first time they're starting to answer questions and think more globally about how cards interact and if it is good for the game or not. After a year of pumping out dozens of cards each month they're finally reaping the mess they've sown. There's been a part of me that's felt like the game was heading towards an unwieldy mess heading towards implosion and hopefully after the dust settles we'll end up with a stronger game.

A few weeks ago they tossed out a band-aid type "fix" of putting a cap of 50 points per ship that was not well received. This go around though it really feels like they're making an effort to fix much of what was beginning to ail the game.

These next few weeks or months are going to be a mess though as info slowly trickles down the chain from the forum, to a FAQ/Errata Document, to players and follow up questions are asked. Might just have to tune out until the dust settles a bit and the next Organized Play event is scheduled.

What excites me most though is that The Borg have actually had decisions go against them, and that the Multi-Attack Cancelling Builds have been severely limited.

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18 Nov 2014 12:57 #190910 by stormseeker75
Shame on them for not developing the game well, but kudos for at least fixing it.

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18 Nov 2014 17:03 #190932 by RobertB
I liked ST:AW a lot, and my inner kid is tickled to death when I see the minis. The X-Wing pieces might look a little better, but for me Hardon Neckbeard's A-Wing isn't nearly as cool as Klingon Captain Koloth and his Tribble problems.

I guess my $500+ question is this: am I officially screwed here for organized play? When I do the math I'm looking at about that much for the complete set. My wife may divorce me, but I guess I can have the U.S.S. Reliant to keep me company.

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18 Nov 2014 23:13 #190945 by VonTush
Do you need everything released to date to be competitive? No.
Does it help? Yes.

What it usually comes down to in the OP environment is in the end you have to kill your opponent. Rarely does anyone field the smaller ships because they die too easy, mid-range and up with a trend more towards the up. So you could start there and do pretty well.

If you focus your acquisitions with Feds and Borg that's largely where the meta game has gone right now. Feds give you tons of upgrades and since most everyone does cross-factioning they are very useful. Borg give you the best ships. Early in the game's release Klingons were very popular, then the Dominion started to round out and they had their moment, but currently Borg and Feds are where it is at. Romulans were never very popular especially as the line has grown, except for Cloaked Mine fleets which have gone out of style as of late. As far as the OP prize ships, there are a few that have one or two cards that are good, otherwise not needed but if you can find there can be uses for some things.

The Tiny-Prise, Voyager and Enterprise E will give you a lot of good viable options. Two Spheres or a Tactical Cube (with some Fed upgrades) will get you going in the right direction. You have to obtain, through eBay or some other source, the Flagship and Fleet Captain upgrades, they add extra upgrade slots or stats and virtually every top tier fleet uses one of those because of the additional options they open up to outfit a ship. Most of the other resources are Ok but those are in 90% of all fleets it seems.

Romulans or any of the other races outside of the core 5 can wait as well.

But I guess to answer your question, with a little smarts behind your purchases you can field a competitive OP fleet as long as you can fly it worth a damn.

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