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Did any of y'all (other than Frank) get Kingdom Death?

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06 Oct 2015 14:34 - 06 Oct 2015 14:35 #212008 by derekjinx

Michael Barnes wrote: You know, I can't help but wonder if the extremely positive reviews and comments I've seen are really "wow, this $400 game I bought is awesome!" more than "wow, the gameplay and concept of this game is awesome!"

Pete- According to Poots, it's not going into distribution. Which is probably a good thing, because a $400 SKU at a hobby shop is retail suicide. Probably best since it is, as billed, "boutique" horror gaming. So a MM review copy is highly unlikely anytime in the near future.

Sag- Yes. I certainly do not expect the F:AT membership to go the extra mile.

Columbob- One of the things that really interests me about it is that it is VERY video game influenced. It's pretty clear that Dark Souls and Monster Hunter are big components of it. But this whole idea that your character's village influences aspects of them based on ideologies and such...that's a REALLY freaking cool concept.

Chaz- I think that's ultimately what the problem is here...at the price point, and with the miniatures involved it may be that the potentially innovative, interesting ideas are effectively behind both a pay wall and hobby wall so to speak. I would buy a $75 copy of this game with cardboard standups (and the same graphic design, same cards, etc.) in a hot minute. I appreciate (believe it or not) that it's effectively a "luxury class" product, but the reality of it is that "luxury class" in the hobby market is kind of pointless. It rules out people taking a chance on it, it rules out people who may be willing to spend TWO HUNDRED dollars on it.

Charlie- I'm not kicking myself for missing the Kickstarter at all...there is frankly no way in hell I would have put $400 on this in advance, even knowing what I know now about it and seeing it out in the wild.


I did end up buying three copies of this plus a gaggle of the optional creatures coming in wave 2. All told it cost me $560.00 with a better USD exchange rate. That's $168.00 Canadian for my copy with 2 of the 4 add-on beasties. Early adopting, as it seldom does for me, has in this case paid off.

I split the cost with a buddy and we hocked one of the three copies and it paid for both of ours...

The Kickstarter video was what captivated me on this one in that it showed a hero waking up with nothing and in the middle of seemingly limbo. Like being in a nightmare and trying to live in it. Adam's vision is pretty cool and nary an orc are elf with a bow & arrow are to be found.

Now where to find the time to pop it open and start the factory-like model assembly?
Last edit: 06 Oct 2015 14:35 by derekjinx.
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06 Oct 2015 15:26 #212010 by southernman

charlest wrote:

Michael Barnes wrote: Charlie- I'm not kicking myself for missing the Kickstarter at all...there is frankly no way in hell I would have put $400 on this in advance, even knowing what I know now about it and seeing it out in the wild.


Backers only paid $100 for it.

People have been pre-ordering at $250, $275, and now $290 at different points post kickstarter.


Sorry ... did I read that right ??? A kickstarter where backers actually got the game cheaper than discounted retail ?!

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06 Oct 2015 15:34 #212011 by Columbob
That's because there's basically NO retail.

Of course, many backers have paid a lot more to include a bunch of other add-ons, limited sculpts, and so on.

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06 Oct 2015 16:07 #212013 by charlest
That has nothing to do with there being no retail.

Many projects actually offer great value to backers over buying retail, it's why Kickstarter is the way it is now.

Look at CMON's The Others: 7 Sins. For a $100 pledge you get the equivalent of $200+ MSRP. Blood Rage backers paid $90 (including shipping to US) for what would cost you around $140 at online discounters, plus they received additional exclusives.

Gloomhaven recently charged $85 for what is amounting to a $120 MSRP game.

Middara was great value as well.

Pretty much every Kickstarter miniature game offers crazy value. The problem is that you're buying into a risk, so the reward needs to be adequately high to balance that out.

The thing with Kingdom Death is that they changed the plastic type to be similar to the PVC that Games Workshop uses. This happened post KS as Adam Poots wasn't satisfied with the detail of the softer plastic. This jacked up costs and resulted in the game being $400 MSRP. It's basically GW pricing.

The expansions people added on are now going up in MSRP as well and will never be nearly that cheap again.

Even without retail the guy printed 10,000 copies and believes he will sell out. Insane.

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06 Oct 2015 16:12 #212014 by Cranberries
What do you think his profit per unit is--how much do you think he will clear when the dust settles?

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06 Oct 2015 16:40 #212016 by charlest
We can guess but not sure at all. I don't know if he's actually sold any at $400 MSRP yet.

I imagine his manufacturing cost is somewhere around $50-$80, based on that MSRP. It depends on how tight his margins are. I think the shipping costs, including multiple waves, knocked out any profit he'd made from the Kickstarter and he's in the hole, but has the benefit of a few thousand copies still to turnover.

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06 Oct 2015 17:13 #212018 by Shellhead
I don't understand the appeal of these Kickstarter miniatures projects. What good are fancy miniatures if they are designed for a game that is little more than an afterthought? If the subject matter of the miniatures was more generic, I could see them getting used in a tabletop rpg, but these Kingdom Death ones look too specific for general usage.

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06 Oct 2015 18:32 - 06 Oct 2015 18:32 #212025 by Sevej
Except for the cool minis, I had very little interest on the project. There's nothing cool about "Adam's vision". The nightmare stuff is clearly inspired by Berserk, as are some of the designs. Minis look fiddly as hell, and I'm not sure what's the deal with changing armor and equipment, which sounds like an actual nightmare.
Last edit: 06 Oct 2015 18:32 by Sevej.

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06 Oct 2015 19:03 - 06 Oct 2015 21:13 #212026 by Wetworks
Everything about the production quality of the game is impressive, even the rulebook.



My previous bar for non collector's edition board game was Journey: Wrath of Demons, you can just tell it was produced by talented artists. I think Kingdom Death might have just barely edged out Journey. Although, the fact that Journey's miniatures come preassembled and ready to play out of the box is a huge plus.
Last edit: 06 Oct 2015 21:13 by Wetworks.

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16 Oct 2015 09:35 #212566 by moofrank
Let me try to keep up. Kingdom Death is good, and there is a game there. I'm still trying to work out what I think of it, but the game is fascinating and detailed and just weird.

The minis are not just hard to put together, but almost painful. Even by my standards. There aren't really a lot of them. You only need 5 to START playing, and have to assemble another every 3-4 hours of play. The Phoenix....dear god the Phoenix.....

They are amazing, but a bit of overkill. And the extra armor sprues are still baffling. I haven't really looked at them seriously, and I don't know why they exist.

Even if you took out the minis, it is probably a $150 game. There are 1400 cards and a 224 page rulebook. The minis are ultra-premium and parted out in sprues, there are perhaps $200 in cheap styrene minis.

I have Wrath of Demons as well. That kind of sucks. It is all really, really slow and plodding and just a bit basic. It also really isn't that well themed---Monkey and Pigsy are nearly identical, and only Tripitaka has a unique skill and role.
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16 Oct 2015 18:15 #212611 by SuperflyPete

Sevej wrote: Except for the cool minis, I had very little interest on the project. There's nothing cool about "Adam's vision". The nightmare stuff is clearly inspired by Berserk, as are some of the designs. Minis look fiddly as hell, and I'm not sure what's the deal with changing armor and equipment, which sounds like an actual nightmare.


It looks like it's lifted right from the old Polly Pockets, where you clip armor onto the front. All I see is "damaged paint". Ugh.

Way too much plastic, and unless it's called Space Crusade, fuck de-sprueing.

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21 Oct 2015 14:20 - 21 Oct 2015 14:21 #212999 by moofrank
The way the armor kits actually work is that the minis are assembled with mix and match limbs, weapons. A few items go over other pieces, but are intended to be glued on. Really, it is just a giant accessory kit which can build custom minis.

I like that idea for the Malifaux RPG where characters are VERY important (Wyrd sells similar kits for that RPG) In KD, gear changes hourly, and characters face instant annihilation every 5 minutes. Totally stupid for KD.
Last edit: 21 Oct 2015 14:21 by moofrank. Reason: wanted to add another line
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11 Nov 2015 07:02 #214750 by chris@everythingepic.us

Wetworks wrote: Everything about the production quality of the game is impressive, even the rulebook.



My previous bar for non collector's edition board game was Journey: Wrath of Demons, you can just tell it was produced by talented artists. I think Kingdom Death might have just barely edged out Journey. Although, the fact that Journey's miniatures come preassembled and ready to play out of the box is a huge plus.


It really looks so cool and like a great game... but ACK! The Assembly! :(

I'll never do it.... just like my poor shadows of brimstone still in half-shrink...

I played it once...WITH my Arkham Horror Pre-Painted Minis instead HAHA

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11 Nov 2015 16:08 #214816 by moofrank
A friend of mine bought a copy and split it with someone who wanted the minis. You REALLY only need 11 minis. 3 are 30mm, 3 are 60mm, and one is 100mm. You also only ever use 5 minis at a time.

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