General Magic Thread

Drafting is really great for experienced players. It's very skill intensive - that is, it magnifies small differences in skill, particularly in the skill of evaluating unfamiliar cards, and familiarity with the draft environment, knowing what other cards are in the pool, which deck archetypes are viable.

Sealed deck takes some of that away and replaces it with randomness - it becomes significantly more likely that the less-skilled player ends up with better cards. I find that sealed deck can make for a better experience if your group is just starting out, of if there's a marked skill or experience gap between players in the group.

I've been thinking about putting together a block based cube. Either Urza block or Invasion, or maybe one of each. What's the usual set up for block cubes? Is it one of each card from each set? I was thinking of not using many rares, but multiple copies of commons and maybe uncommons.

Malygris wrote: I've been thinking about putting together a block based cube. Either Urza block or Invasion, or maybe one of each. What's the usual set up for block cubes? Is it one of each card from each set? I was thinking of not using many rares, but multiple copies of commons and maybe uncommons.

Urza block will be REALLY expensive, I think the most expensive block in the history of the game. That said, I have a "near"-complete Urza-block draft cube that I was planning on selling at some point over the next year, if you're interested. It's missing most of the most valuable cards of each set, so if you don't mind proxies for those it's perfect as you'll save a giant chunk of change (missing 16 Saga cards, 10 Legacy cards, and 11 Destiny cards). The most expensive cards remaining are I think Serra's Sanctum and Gilded Drake, but I can sell those off beforehand if you want another price cut. There is an extra set of commons for each set (and two extra sets for Saga).

Not selling my Invasion draft Cube, though.

As for "the usual setup": depends on who you ask. Personally, my draft cubes are divided by rarity and try to simulate the experience of drafting with the original booster packs as much as possible. Other people make it more like a typical singleton-style Cube; they'll either include one of every card, or they'll cut it down to the 360 best or most interesting cards. Other people will do kind of a hybrid, and will shuffle together say 4 of each common, 2 of each common, and 1 of each rare and then make random 15-card packs.

Up to you!

dragonstout wrote: Urza block will be REALLY expensive, I think the most expensive block in the history of the game. That said, I have a "near"-complete Urza-block draft cube that I was planning on selling at some point over the next year, if you're interested. It's missing most of the most valuable cards of each set, so if you don't mind proxies for those it's perfect as you'll save a giant chunk of change (missing 16 Saga cards, 10 Legacy cards, and 11 Destiny cards). The most expensive cards remaining are I think Serra's Sanctum and Gilded Drake, but I can sell those off beforehand if you want another price cut. There is an extra set of commons for each set (and two extra sets for Saga).

I'll keep this in mind. A friend of mine told me he'd give me a bunch of his old cards, and I want to wait and see what I can get from him before buying anything.

Just back from my first Friday Night Magic Theros Draft, and it was an unqualified success. My 9 year old daughter and I went and I kept saying I thought both of us would be creamed because we had been playing magic for a couple of months and we would be facing people with years of experience, and told her that we would probably lose our first two bouts 2-0 and then play each other in the final round, so the objective was to hope we lost one bout 2-1 and see what we could learn about more advanced play.

My expectations were met when after a mana flood I lost my first game, but then thought I had some luck in my second and won it, was at 1-1, and feeling rather chuffed that I had met the goal of winning one game. I was in a tight battle to decide the winner of this match-up when my daughter walked up to me and said "Why are you still playing? I just beat that guy 2-0." In the end she went 0-2 and 1-2 in her other matches (though her first game in the 0-2 loss was infamous and even the staff from the store were watching as she was 42-11 up in life at one point and staring down a 3-0 scoreline to start her magic tournament career). She likes to play W/G and buff one creature up to near unstoppable levels, which does work at times, but with only one threat it can often be neutralized quite easily.

I the end I could have, and probably should have won our group of 8 players. I did have shocking luck with land, as of the 8 games I played, in 6 of them my opening hand had either 1 or 5 land, and even on 2 of the mulligans drew only one land. I suspect they may have placed us in some sort of beginners or low ranked players group of the 5 that were running that night, as I didn't think much of the play of the others apart from the one guy who won the group.

I have 2 questions.
First is there any problems with my deck construction (and I think I was very lucky with what I was passed). This is a R/B deck with a minotaur subtheme. I know you can't comment on what I passed over (the only one I remember and regret is a Firedrinker Satyr, as I misread the card and thought it did more damage to you than it does, but I think I took a lightning bolt instead). I wish there were some more 1 or 2 cost creatures as there are only 4, and it was too late in the draft when I realized I was in slight trouble there and couldn't do much to mitigate things:
Creatures (16)
Tormented Hero
Baleful Eidolon
Fleshmad Steed
Satyr Rambler
Felhide Minotaur (2)
Minotaur Skullcleaver
Spearpoint Oread (2)
Rageblood Shaman
Cavern Lampad
Ill-Tempered Cyclops
Borderland Minotaur (2)
Kragma Warcaller
Keepsake Gorgon

Spells:
Coordinated Assault
Fleetfeather Sandals
Lightning Strike (2)
Hammer of Purphoros
Portent of Betrayal
Sip of Hemlock

Mountains (10)
Swamp (7)

In my sideboard and never added (and should they have been?):
Priest of Iroas
Blood Toll Harpy
Disciple of Phenax
Ill-Tempered Cyclops
Titan of Eternal Fire
Titan's Strength
Boon of Erebos
Pharika's Cure (2)
Read the Bones
March of the Returned
Lash of the Whip
Rescue from the Underworld
(plus some off-colour cards)

2) I won 2-1, 2-0 and then lost the final bout 1-2. Everything came down to the final game in that match, and in particular the final 2 turns. My opponent was playing a mostly green deck with a splash of black and blue. He had made good use of the 3 Nylea's Disciple while I struggled to get my creatures out and was being pinged for 4 a turn. I was down 8-33 in life, and then with a few minotaurs out I managed to get Kragma Warcaller with Spearpoint Oread bestowed on it and Rageblood Shaman with Cavern Lampad bestowed on it. This meant that every turn I could attack with my Rageblood Shaman and cause 6 damage with intimidate (he had no red or artifacts), and apart from the occasional ping my other creatures kept his at bay.

At the end I was back in the game with 5 life to his 10, and he had two 3/3 creatures (possibly 3, my memory is fuzzy on this), both land based with no reach. He had 2 land untapped and 2 cards in hand. My only other creature was a Felhide Minotaur who was equipped with Fleetfeather Sandals. I had nothing in hand (well 2 land I hadn't played but left in hand as a bluff). I could attack with the Rageblood Shaman and it would do 6 damage, so to do the final 4 damage and win I could also attack with my 5/4 flying Felhide Minotaur which he couldn't stop with what was on the board (and in retrospect I also realize my trampling 7/6 Kragma Warcaller may have also been able to do 4 damage). I chose not to have an all out attack, as he had 2 creatures who could attack next turn, and if I didn't block both he would win (or maybe one and a hidden boost), so if he pulled something out of his hat with his 2 mana and 2 cards (Defend the Hearth?) he would win, and I had a much better chance to win the following turn. In retrospect this was the wrong decision as I would have won if I attacked as he had nothing that could have stopped me, but I still think I made the right call.

Next turn he was very lucky and drew the blue land he needed and I think cast Horizon Scholar and a boost on it to make it a flying 6/7 with trample and with its 2 damage over the flying 3/4 Felhide Minotaur, and another 3 coming from one of the other creatures unblocked it was exactly what he needed to win.

I suppose the other possible mistake I made was in putting the flying on the plain minotaur, giving me 2 relatively major threats and a good 3rd one, when I would have been better off putting it on my Kragma Warcaller and having 2 near unstoppable threats. Sometimes I forget that flying is needed for blocking as well as attacking.

You know I LOVE this shit! Thanks so much Ancient! Theros rocks! I've done 18 drafts so far.

Ancient_of_MuMu wrote: Just back from my first Friday Night Magic Theros Draft, and it was an unqualified success. My 9 year old daughter and I went and I kept saying I thought both of us would be creamed because we had been playing magic for a couple of months and we would be facing people with years of experience, and told her that we would probably lose our first two bouts 2-0 and then play each other in the final round, so the objective was to hope we lost one bout 2-1 and see what we could learn about more advanced play.

My expectations were met when after a mana flood I lost my first game, but then thought I had some luck in my second and won it, was at 1-1, and feeling rather chuffed that I had met the goal of winning one game. I was in a tight battle to decide the winner of this match-up when my daughter walked up to me and said "Why are you still playing? I just beat that guy 2-0." In the end she went 0-2 and 1-2 in her other matches (though her first game in the 0-2 loss was infamous and even the staff from the store were watching as she was 42-11 up in life at one point and staring down a 3-0 scoreline to start her magic tournament career).

As you may have noticed (particularly based on the game you describe at the end): THIS is why I and others keep reminding that life is only a *resource*, and only the last point of life matters. If you set up a board position where you are in complete control, then the life totals literally do not matter (unless you're playing against red) and you can take all the time in the world to win. But yeah, those comeback victories (like you almost had at the end there!) are a big part of what makes Magic so much damn fun!

I'm SO glad that your daughter did well! How was the crowd, were they nice to her, or were they jerks about losing to a girl or losing to a kid, as I have sometimes seen happen?

Ancient_of_MuMu wrote: She likes to play W/G and buff one creature up to near unstoppable levels, which does work at times, but with only one threat it can often be neutralized quite easily.

I the end I could have, and probably should have won our group of 8 players. I did have shocking luck with land, as of the 8 games I played, in 6 of them my opening hand had either 1 or 5 land, and even on 2 of the mulligans drew only one land. I suspect they may have placed us in some sort of beginners or low ranked players group of the 5 that were running that night, as I didn't think much of the play of the others apart from the one guy who won the group.

I have 2 questions.
First is there any problems with my deck construction (and I think I was very lucky with what I was passed). This is a R/B deck with a minotaur subtheme. I know you can't comment on what I passed over (the only one I remember and regret is a Firedrinker Satyr, as I misread the card and thought it did more damage to you than it does, but I think I took a lightning bolt instead).

Between Firedrinker Satyr and Lightning Strike, I'd take Lightning Strike every time. No harm there!

One thing I love about Magic Online is that it automatically keeps a text file of your draft picks, so it's easy to critique and discuss draft picks, because that's REALLY where you're making the deckbuilding decisions, not so much post-draft.

Ancient_of_MuMu wrote: I wish there were some more 1 or 2 cost creatures as there are only 4, and it was too late in the draft when I realized I was in slight trouble there and couldn't do much to mitigate things:

Wishing you had more one-drops: it's very rare that there are a ton of quality one-drops in a set. Usually nearly all of the common one-drops are not worth drafting. When drafting an aggressive deck, it's better to focus on two-drops, since there are always a bunch of 2-power 2-drops, and those guys are the backbone of a aggro draft deck. The one-drops that are really golden are the uncommon/rare two-power one-drops, like Tormented Hero and Firedrinker Satyr. But again, those guys are ONLY golden in a very aggressive deck.

That said: in Theros in particular, some people have taken to drafting even the shitty one-drops (like Akroan Crusader, Priest of Iroas, etc.) IFFFFFFFFFFF they also draft several Ordeals. Because 1st turn 1-drop, 2nd turn Ordeal is a HUGE start that can win on its own no matter how crappy the 1-drop is.

Ancient_of_MuMu wrote: Creatures (16)
Tormented Hero
Baleful Eidolon
Fleshmad Steed
Satyr Rambler
Felhide Minotaur (2)
Minotaur Skullcleaver
Spearpoint Oread (2)
Rageblood Shaman
Cavern Lampad
Ill-Tempered Cyclops
Borderland Minotaur (2)
Kragma Warcaller
Keepsake Gorgon

Spells:
Coordinated Assault
Fleetfeather Sandals
Lightning Strike (2)
Hammer of Purphoros
Portent of Betrayal
Sip of Hemlock

Mountains (10)
Swamp (7)

In my sideboard and never added (and should they have been?):
Priest of Iroas
Blood Toll Harpy
Disciple of Phenax
Ill-Tempered Cyclops
Titan of Eternal Fire
Titan's Strength
Boon of Erebos
Pharika's Cure (2)
Read the Bones
March of the Returned
Lash of the Whip
Rescue from the Underworld
(plus some off-colour cards)

So: you got a lot of quality cards, wow! Making this deck is actually genuinely interesting. I talked with a friend about it, and he's having a hard time making cuts too. He and I both agree that Blood-Toll Harpy goes in there 100%, as does Titan's Strength. My friend is inclined to cut the 2-drops in favor of more spells (e.g. Pharika's Cure), and he doesn't like Sandals or Portent here at all; I don't know that I agree about those two, despite usually disliking them myself. I think he does not see the deck as being as fast as you believe it is; it's true that you have a lot of spells that really get much better later in the game, like Sip, Cavern Lampad, Giant, the Bestow dudes, and Hammer. Anyway, I'm not sure. But definitely Blood-Toll Harpy and probably Titan's Strength. Haha I had a turn 6 win once where I played turn 3 Blood-Toll Harpy, t4 Blood-Toll Harpy, t5 Blood-Toll Harpy, t6 Blood-Toll Harpy & Mogis's Marauder. Who needs other cards?

BTW, if you want to see what a truly aggressive deck looks like, I've attached a few 3-0ing aggro decklists; notice the distribution of mana costs. Edit: Gah, frustrating that they're SO small! Also, in the first one, things aren't sorted by mana cost for some reason.

Ancient_of_MuMu wrote: 2) I won 2-1, 2-0 and then lost the final bout 1-2. Everything came down to the final game in that match, and in particular the final 2 turns. My opponent was playing a mostly green deck with a splash of black and blue. He had made good use of the 3 Nylea's Disciple while I struggled to get my creatures out and was being pinged for 4 a turn. I was down 8-33 in life, and then with a few minotaurs out I managed to get Kragma Warcaller with Spearpoint Oread bestowed on it and Rageblood Shaman with Cavern Lampad bestowed on it. This meant that every turn I could attack with my Rageblood Shaman and cause 6 damage with intimidate (he had no red or artifacts), and apart from the occasional ping my other creatures kept his at bay.

At the end I was back in the game with 5 life to his 10, and he had two 3/3 creatures (possibly 3, my memory is fuzzy on this), both land based with no reach. He had 2 land untapped and 2 cards in hand. My only other creature was a Felhide Minotaur who was equipped with Fleetfeather Sandals. I had nothing in hand (well 2 land I hadn't played but left in hand as a bluff). I could attack with the Rageblood Shaman and it would do 6 damage, so to do the final 4 damage and win I could also attack with my 5/4 flying Felhide Minotaur which he couldn't stop with what was on the board (and in retrospect I also realize my trampling 7/6 Kragma Warcaller may have also been able to do 4 damage). I chose not to have an all out attack, as he had 2 creatures who could attack next turn, and if I didn't block both he would win (or maybe one and a hidden boost), so if he pulled something out of his hat with his 2 mana and 2 cards (Defend the Hearth?) he would win, and I had a much better chance to win the following turn. In retrospect this was the wrong decision as I would have won if I attacked as he had nothing that could have stopped me, but I still think I made the right call.

So, in any limited format, it really pays to know the tricks available, doubly so in Theros. If the opponent has 2 mana untapped and no blockers, and if both those dudes get through he dies, there are literally three cards I'm worried about in your situation, and if he doesn't have TAPPED flying dudes, there is only ONE card I'm worried about: the one card being Voyage's End. You're correct that Defend the Hearth would also do the trick here, but that's such a narrow and rarely-played card that it's never even crossed my mind (I've never ever seen it played or considered playing it). If he HAS Voyage's End and you DON'T attack, it's STILL devastating to you if you need that dude to block, because he'll just bounce that blocker at the end of turn. At least if he bounces your dude during combat, you'll be able to recast him in your second main phase.

The other two cards that could be a concern would be Triton Tactics and Savage Surge, to untap a flier to block your dude. But if he has no tapped fliers that's not an issue.

Given your next sentence, it sounds like he didn't have a blue mana, so you were completely safe to alpha-strike here.

A good thing to notice is that all the removal in this format except for Voyage's End and Lightning Strike is all fairly expensive, so even at 3 mana nothing is really added to the list above of stuff for me to worry about (actually, Shredding Winds...but once again, if he has Shredding Winds and you need a dude to block: you STILL lose, so you might as well play as if he doesn't have it). Four mana adds Divine Verdict and Griptide, five mana adds Lash of the Whip. Everything else is sorcery speed, or is a pump-spell of some kind that is irrelevant if he has no blockers.

Ancient_of_MuMu wrote: Next turn he was very lucky and drew the blue land he needed and I think cast Horizon Scholar and a boost on it to make it a flying 6/7 with trample and with its 2 damage over the flying 3/4 Felhide Minotaur, and another 3 coming from one of the other creatures unblocked it was exactly what he needed to win.

I suppose the other possible mistake I made was in putting the flying on the plain minotaur, giving me 2 relatively major threats and a good 3rd one, when I would have been better off putting it on my Kragma Warcaller and having 2 near unstoppable threats. Sometimes I forget that flying is needed for blocking as well as attacking.

Remember that you can move the Fleetfeather Sandals after combat if you need flying for blocking as well as attacking. Put it on a dude, attack with that dude, and then move it to a blocker.

BTW I think what helped you draft such a killer bunch of cards is: Fellhide Minotaur is a borderline playable. Borderland Minotaur is not exciting. Kragma Warcaller is obviously only playable in a single color combination. Rageblood Shaman is not good outside of BR either; even then, not even every BR deck wants them! But all those cards TOGETHER???

That kind of deck THRIVES on the fact that a lot of the cards that are good for it, like what's mentioned above, are not high picks, and Fellhide and Borderland and the 2-drop minotaur that you didn't get any of will even wheel around the whole table for you to pick up the second time through the pack.

I forgot one more important thing: that is an EXCELLENT deck, and an EXCELLENT showing, for a first-time drafter!!! Congrats!

Also, with Baleful Eidolon and Spearpoint Oread and Rageblood Shaman in there, just wanted to point out: 1) deathtouch + first strike is obviously out of this world 2) deathtouch + trample combine somewhat unintuitively, but also in a good way, so make sure you're aware of the interaction.

dragonstout wrote: I'm SO glad that your daughter did well! How was the crowd, were they nice to her, or were they jerks about losing to a girl or losing to a kid, as I have sometimes seen happen?

I was worried about how people would react and how she would play (when we play I used to get a lot of "Can I take that back?"), but people treated her with respect and the staff loved her. I didn't see her first game that she won as I was at a different table so no idea how that guy reacted, but I was next to her for the second match-up and there was one minor discussion with a judge over her not adding a +1 counter and so there was something that should have been destroyed but wasn't and whether it should have been. I think he was trying to take advantage of her mistake pointing it out to gloat after the fact and the judge pulled him up, which is good.

dragonstout wrote: So, in any limited format, it really pays to know the tricks available, doubly so in Theros.

This is why I should have won. I had seen the bulk of his deck after the first 2 games, and he didn't have Triton Tactics, Voyage's End, Defend the Hearth, or anything else I can think of that would have been able to stop me.

Thinking through it now, my best guess for what happened is he had a Karametra's Alcoyte (so he really had 5 mana available), a Nylea's Disciple and a Returned Phalanx out, with a white and a blue land untapped with 2 cards in hand. I attacked with just the Rageblood Shaman, reducing him from 10 to 4 life. At the end of my turn he tapped the Karametra's Alcoyte for 3 green mana and flashed out a Horizon Chimera. In his turn he drew a blue land, bestowed Thassa's Emissary on the Horizon Chimera, used the second blue land to non-defender the Returned Phalanx, and attacked with everything but the Disciple to do 5 damage.

Thus if I had attacked with all 3 of my creatures I would not have won that turn, but would have won the next turn as he would have lost 3 of his 4 creatures stopping me. However if I just attacked with the flying Felhide minotaur as I was planning on doing I would have lost. I had forgotten I had trample and that was the key mistake, as if I attacked with my Kragma Warcaller he would have been required to block with both of his 3/3 creatures which would then have been lost to first strike, so no chance of them attacking back next turn.

dragonstout wrote: BTW I think what helped you draft such a killer bunch of cards is: Fellhide Minotaur is a borderline playable. Borderland Minotaur is not exciting. Kragma Warcaller is obviously only playable in a single color combination. Rageblood Shaman is not good outside of BR either; even then, not even every BR deck wants them! But all those cards TOGETHER???

That kind of deck THRIVES on the fact that a lot of the cards that are good for it, like what's mentioned above, are not high picks, and Fellhide and Borderland and the 2-drop minotaur that you didn't get any of will even wheel around the whole table for you to pick up the second time through the pack.

When I look at the deck, and try to imagine what I would change in constructed, the answer is not that much. There are only 3 filler low drops that I would swap for the missing 2 cost minotaur, and maybe tweak the bestow creatures a bit, to try to get a slightly better balance. It was the best deck of the 5 I saw, but it was probably more luck than skill.

My first 5 draft picks were Hammer of Purphoros, Lightning Strike, Titan of Eternal Fire, Spearpoint Oread, and then Keepsake Gorgon (no idea how that lasted that long). I picked up a few more decent reds and the odd black in that pack. When the rare in the second pack was Rageblood Shaman and soon after was passed the Kragma Warcaller, I knew I was bound to have a BR deck that I thought was good, but never knew if others would think it was decent.

Ohhhhhhhhhhhh, Horizon CHIMERA, not Horizon Scholar. And he had more mana out. Yeah, at this point it sounds like the board state is complicated enough that I can't boil it down so easily. 5 mana untapped, including a blue and a white, makes a big difference. The key here then is 1) have SPECIFIC cards in mind that you're scared of; if he has no fliers out, then those cards are Voyage's End, Griptide, and Divine Verdict. Then 2) the other key thing to think about is: okay, say he has a Divine Verdict (which is the worst of those possibilities, probably), and if you attack with two dudes, you lose. What if you just attack with one? Are you equally not-going-to-win? If so, you might as well pretend he doesn't have it, because you're screwed either way, and at least one way if he doesn't have it you have a guaranteed win. You want to think about each of the potential cards in that way.

If he had fliers untapped, or tapped, then the number of cards that matter becomes much higher and it's harder to actually run through all the possibilities.

Of course, you also want to take into account psychological stuff, like whether he seems like he has a trick etc., whether it seems like he's been going out of his way to leave a white mana open or a blue mana open, but he might've just had a good poker face.

Also sounds like it would've been a good idea to move the Sandals to your first-striking Kragma Warcaller post-combat, but no one's gonna blame you for not expecting a Horizon Chimera (unless you'd seen one earlier in the match! The other day I was in a draft, and was attacking with a 2/1 and a 1/2, both fliers, for the first few turns; I then did NOT attack with the 1/2 once he got four mana out. But this was because 1) I'd seen Horizon Chimera in an earlier game and 2) it'd be highly unusual to keep that had NO action that cost 4 or less mana, so he clearly planned on playing something, that something probably wasn't Griptide on a 2/1 or something dumb, so that "something" was probably the Horizon Chimera. Sure enough, of course he had the Chimera.

Another good rule of thumb in Theros is: against white and green, they have 3 common instants that provide +2/+2, as well as an uncommon. So I'd rarely block a 2/2 with a 3/4 against WG, but I'm fine with blocking a 2/1 with a 3/4.

If you're going to draft Theros more or a lot, master playing against and around the common tricks first, don't sweat the uncommon tricks at first unless the opponent does something unusual (when the opponent does something very unusual it sets off those "okay, let me think about what uncommon tricks he might have" bells) or unless you've seen them in a previous game, and damn, just enjoy!

Glad to hear people were respectful of your daughter. When my wife first went to a tournament, the guy working at the game store behind the counter was mocking her opponents "har har you lost to a GIIIIIIIRL!" And the last tournament she went to, someone she played against was complaining to her about what a drag it was playing against this 8-10-year-old kid in the tournament and about how slow he was blah blah blah. But it gives her extra satisfaction to win against jerks like that; she went undefeated in both of those tournaments.

Ancient_of_MuMu wrote: My first 5 draft picks were Hammer of Purphoros, Lightning Strike, Titan of Eternal Fire, Spearpoint Oread, and then Keepsake Gorgon (no idea how that lasted that long). I picked up a few more decent reds and the odd black in that pack. When the rare in the second pack was Rageblood Shaman and soon after was passed the Kragma Warcaller, I knew I was bound to have a BR deck that I thought was good, but never knew if others would think it was decent.

Good first couple picks; the Titan is a weak third pick, though. 5th pick Keepsake Gorgon is what's called a "signal": as you noted, there's no way it should last that long, and if it DOES, it's pretty much a guarantee that the 3 people to your right are NOT playing black (the person who opened the pack might have taken a bomb rare over it). It is very clearly one of the absolute top uncommons (I think I'd probably put it as #1 or #2 after Phalanx Leader), and better than most rares.

In this block, when drafting, I like to float around for my first few picks, and then when I get a major signal like Keepsake Gorgon 5th or even something much less major like Nessian Asp or Griptide 6th, THAT'S when I pretty much move in and decide THAT's a color I'm definitely going for.

PS: you should consider downloading Magic Online and doing drafts there with your daughter as a team. I've found that a lot of fun in the past, playing & drafting with a buddy and debating picks and plays. Of course, it can also cause arguments and frustration.

Friday Night Magic again and again I went 2-1 while my daughter went 1-2. I drafter a Blue White flying deck based on the 3 Nimbus Naiads I found, which seemed quite effective and easily beat 2 weaker opponents. Against the only competent player I had mana issues in both games so never got an accurate sense of how I had drafted. Both times I have lost at FNM has been to a person playing 3 colours, so I had a sense that they had a better understanding of Theros's cards worth than the other 4 opponents.

This time I had a few timing issues as this was the first time it was required when playing. A couple of times I had to work with my opponents as to when my Voyage's End was played (before or after attackers were declared) and I can see how that would be an issue in a more competitive environment so I need to work on that.

The weird thing with all the Theros I have been playing over the last month has been that after the draft my daughter and I had opened 26 boosters and not turned up a single mythic rare. They are supposed to be rarer than normal but that is crazy. Luckily in the booster I won there was an Erebos God of the Dead so the drought was broken. I have a cube with all my favourite cards in it, that given my naive understanding of things is probably rather unbalanced with the colours. I have been pondering whether to add the Erebos to the cube, and my instinct is that the gods are not a good card for drafting as it really needs a deck built around it. I think I may be bett off trading it for some cards that work better in cubes, as otherwise it will probably just collect dust as at this stage I don't play constructed and even then you probably need 2 or 3 of a God to build a deck around.

Ancient_of_MuMu wrote: Friday Night Magic again and again I went 2-1 while my daughter went 1-2. I drafter a Blue White flying deck based on the 3 Nimbus Naiads I found, which seemed quite effective and easily beat 2 weaker opponents. Against the only competent player I had mana issues in both games so never got an accurate sense of how I had drafted. Both times I have lost at FNM has been to a person playing 3 colours, so I had a sense that they had a better understanding of Theros's cards worth than the other 4 opponents.

Nimbus Naiad is very strong, certainly one of the top 5 commons in the set.

I am surprised that you keep losing against 3-color folks: the only effective >2-color decks I've seen have been 5-color green decks. Did they have a lot of mana-fixing? "5-color green" is a standby draft archetype that shows up in many environments, where the idea is to prioritize green's mana ramp and color-fixing, so that you then have the ability to not care too much about colors and just take the most powerful cards.

Real bummer about the mana issues.

Ancient_of_MuMu wrote: This time I had a few timing issues as this was the first time it was required when playing. A couple of times I had to work with my opponents as to when my Voyage's End was played (before or after attackers were declared) and I can see how that would be an issue in a more competitive environment so I need to work on that.

Hm, what was the exact timing issue, regarding "before or after attackers are declared"? Aqueous Form is the only card I can think of for when that would matter.

Ancient_of_MuMu wrote: The weird thing with all the Theros I have been playing over the last month has been that after the draft my daughter and I had opened 26 boosters and not turned up a single mythic rare. They are supposed to be rarer than normal but that is crazy. Luckily in the booster I won there was an Erebos God of the Dead so the drought was broken. I have a cube with all my favourite cards in it, that given my naive understanding of things is probably rather unbalanced with the colours. I have been pondering whether to add the Erebos to the cube, and my instinct is that the gods are not a good card for drafting as it really needs a deck built around it. I think I may be bett off trading it for some cards that work better in cubes, as otherwise it will probably just collect dust as at this stage I don't play constructed and even then you probably need 2 or 3 of a God to build a deck around.

Where are you getting your boosters from? 26 boosters with no mythics is highly unlikely: just a 3% chance! It's possible you were getting your boosters from a bad source, where the boxes were either searched or mapped (mapping is horrifying, you can look it up; searching is also horrible and simpler to explain, you just open boosters from tons of boxes until you get the hot mythics, and then sell the remainders of the boxes; they'll be MUCH less likely to contain the hot mythics).

Erebos is decent in draft. You do need to build around him, but that's simple to do: play mono-black, which typically a lot of other cards reward you for too. Including cards that you can build around, cards that are stronger only under certain conditions, is KEY to making a draft environment (and therefore Cube) fun.

dragonstout wrote: Hm, what was the exact timing issue, regarding "before or after attackers are declared"? Aqueous Form is the only card I can think of for when that would matter.

I wanted to bounce a Kragma Warcaller, and my opponent claimed if I bounced him after attackers were declared the other minotaurs would still get the +2. Given my intention was to remove that bonus, we determined that we had to roll back to before he declared attackers, and he could choose again who to attack with. A similar thing happened again with a different opponent, but without any relevant other effects, but my other opponent was a bit of an ass about it, claiming I had bounced during his declare attackers phase so he could choose who to attack with again. But given I potentially stuffed up the first one with my other opponent, I was willing to let the other one slide.

dragonstout wrote: Where are you getting your boosters from? 26 boosters with no mythics is highly unlikely: just a 3% chance!

We bought a fat pack (9 boosters) plus 3 more so we had 12 to learn to draft with a few weeks ago. Then we participated in 2 drafts at FNM, so opened 3 more each in each tournament, giving another 12, and then I won 2 packs as prizes, for the first 26. Other people in the booster drafts have opened mythics, so clearly that has been very bad luck and not anything stacked against us. The only one that might be that way was the fat pack, as I don't know if they are constructed that way.

dragonstout wrote: Erebos is decent in draft. You do need to build around him, but that's simple to do: play mono-black, which typically a lot of other cards reward you for too. Including cards that you can build around, cards that are stronger only under certain conditions, is KEY to making a draft environment (and therefore Cube) fun.

My thoughts are that I could trade him for a few appropriate rares that would bring more to the cube, such as the cycle of weapons. However my daughter is against trading it, so maybe she will win out.