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Hearthstone Players!

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03 Nov 2016 13:41 #237410 by jeb
Replied by jeb on topic Hearthstone Players!
Wlos can just tech in some Owls and win the mirror.

I didn't think about it overly. I went with Hunter Beasts, hoping I could do something cool with Snake Traps (pop right side) and a Scavenging Hyena (left side), but it wasn't necessary. Played a very reactionary Mage who was setting something up that was never going to happen and I crushed.

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03 Nov 2016 15:36 #237414 by SebastianBludd
Replied by SebastianBludd on topic Hearthstone Players!
I tried to build a Mage deck but it sucked, so I netdecked a Silence Priest list (to counter Warlocks) that runs Ancient Watcher, Eerie Statue, Purify, Silence, Divine Spirit, Power Word Shield, Shadow Madness, Shadow Word Pain and a couple others I'm forgetting. So of course my next match was against a Warrior running Armorsmith, Frothing Beserker, Ravaging Ghoul, etc. Through silencing his stuff (Beserkers, mainly) and mine (Watchers and Statues) I was barely able to eke out a victory after we both ran out of cards. It was fun but I have no desire to play this brawl as much as others.

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04 Nov 2016 22:24 - 04 Nov 2016 22:48 #237482 by MacDirk Diggler
Quarter finals of blizzcon. My guy Jasonzhou made it to semis. You see the match Amnesiac v Pavel???? OMG. Find it on YouTube. Amnesiac goes up 3-0. Then it get crazy. Match 6 see what high rolls Pavel gets off babbling books. It is bound to be THE match that is talked about long after this is over. I don't know how a young Amnesiac avoids becoming a degenerate alchoholic later in life .

Dirtiest deck I faced in a long time or ever. Warlock running probably only Barnes and Y'shaarj as his minions and lots of spells. Turn 4 he casts Barnes and it pulls baby Y'shaarj which pulls full side Y'Shaarj end of turn. Then turn 5 he plays renounce darkness. And the spell that casts a random opponents minion onto the battlefield. It pulls MY Malygos. I rage quit. But it's still not nearly as bad as what happened to Amnesiac in that tourney

Edit: ***Round of eight not quarterfinals. But you knew what I meant. Also forgot to mention Malygos off Barnes game 7 as another crushing RNG draw
Last edit: 04 Nov 2016 22:48 by MacDirk Diggler.

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06 Nov 2016 11:43 - 06 Nov 2016 11:44 #237525 by jeb
Replied by jeb on topic Hearthstone Players!

MacDirk Diggler wrote: Quarter finals of blizzcon. My guy Jasonzhou made it to semis. You see the match Amnesiac v Pavel???? OMG. Find it on YouTube. Amnesiac goes up 3-0. Then it get crazy. Match 6 see what high rolls Pavel gets off babbling books. It is bound to be THE match that is talked about long after this is over. I don't know how a young Amnesiac avoids becoming a degenerate alchoholic later in life .
...
Edit: ***Round of eight not quarterfinals. But you knew what I meant. Also forgot to mention Malygos off Barnes game 7 as another crushing RNG draw

YES. These are both crazy plays. The decklists are published, so Amnesiasc knew that Pavel has no in-deck way to beat a 12-health minion without both Fireballs--that Maly was going to win him the game and the match. When he dropped that book and got one of the only two outs (Polymorph or Polymorph Boar) it was like getting a 5 on the river to fill in your straight and beat those three aces. I think Putin hacked the elections and Blizzard this year.

And then Pavel getting the hand and the Maly to exploit it with that Barnes turn--it was just stomach-turning. Amnesiasc is one of the best players month after month on the Ladder, and was shredding these elite players on the way to this match. Seeing him lose like that was rough.

Did you see that Pavel ended up 12-1 vs Druid? That's crazy. Good for him, though, man, it was a solid run.

So the new set is getting talked about. I am not going to bother with any "Spolierz" shit here, we all know what's up. Priest is coming back with some decent AoE (Dragon Blast or something, deals 5 to non-Dragon's for 6), there are some multi-class cards that are going to make people crazy, and that little Pirate is going to be awesome. Pirate Rogue is going to be fucking Fun As Hell in Wild.® For folks that haven't heard,


No big deal, right? Remember Ship's Cannon? Remember Gang Up? I am sure Disguised Toast is going to set up double-Ship's Cannon-into-Southsea Captain-into-4-Patches for 30.
Last edit: 06 Nov 2016 11:44 by jeb.

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29 Nov 2016 14:56 - 29 Nov 2016 16:40 #239380 by jeb
Replied by jeb on topic Hearthstone Players!
Mean Streets of Gadgetzan comes out this Thursday (Dec 1) the first big expansion since Whispers of the Old Gods. That set was largely built around high swingy endgame effects like C’Thun, Yogg-Saron, and coupled with some “nerfs” slowed the game way down. Hearthstone is pretty quick as CCGs go, so this move was received well.

In the intervening months, the release of One Night in Karazhan adventure, and the tuning of decks has resulted in the utter dominance of Shaman and the utter debasement of Priest on the Ladder. What will Mean Streets of Gadgetzan’s 132 new cards do to shake things up? Also, it’s important to note this expansion is getting released in 2016, so it does NOT trigger a set rotation in the Standard format (this occurs for the first expansion released each year, and WotOG came out in April). We’ll have this pool for cards through June, I would guess.

I’ll be working from HearthPwn’s Mean Streets Spoiler page , but only calling out some of the cards for comment. I won’t be paying much attention to Arena or Wild formats unless something really screams for it. And I am thinking about the cards quasi-competitively, but I can’t help my Johnny nature from making me comment on cards I think are awesome without them being necessarily good. Looking at you, Renounce Darkness. I watched a little bit of Nostam’s (also present: Vanqswisher and YoitsFlo) review last night, but there was so much arguing there it wasn’t able to shake my opinions a whole lot.

New mechanics
Jade Golems are minions that get bigger based on a counter applied to your Hero. The first one you summon is a 1/1 for 1. The next is a 2/2 for 2. (They are rarely played from the hand, but bounce effects could make them castable).

There are multi-class cards that can only be used by three heroes based on their “gang” affiliations.
Warrior + Hunter + Paladin
Warlock + Mage + Priest
Druid + Rogue + Shaman

Each of the gangs each have some small themes and commonalities. Each gang gets a “Discover” minion, that battlecries with a “Discover a card from your gang’s heroes” effect that could make for some weird interactions. You could see a Priest turn into Jaraxxus, or a Rogue drawing cards from Nourish. I think the one that will see the most play is the 2-mana 1/1 for Warrior-Hunter-Paladin. The others are a 3-mana 2/2 and a 5-mana 5/3(? seems horrid). The game is probably going to be swinging to favor aggressive decks, so the little guy that replaces himself in the easily-aggro classes will get the nod most often.

The other Warrior-Hunter-Paladin cards are in the “hand-buff” theme. Their battlecry gives a random minion in your hand a +x/+x buff. I wouldn’t underestimate this theme--Hunter especially looks to make a huge move in this direction. It’s going to be casting some really unfair stuff if they ramp out with some of their buff effects. All the heroes have some solution to the traditional 3/2 for 2, 4/3 for 4 kind of ramp, but hand-buff’s decks could drop two 6/6’s on turn 5 without a ton of trouble for it. Things can get hairy here in a jiffy. So I would expect the 3-mana 2/4 with +2/+2 hand-buff to see play, and maybe some decks will play
Don Han’Cho—Legendary {7} 5/6: Battlecry: Give a random minion in your hand +5/+5. That’s a lot of stats (21 points!) for 7-mana. Dealing with the next turn’s 8/8 Infested Wolf, buffed to 10/10 Taunt with Houndmaster is a concern. This might be too slow though, given other Hunter cards that would seem to make the deck curve out quicker.

Warlock-Mage-Priest have a potion theme. Potions are spells ranging in cost from 0 to 6. There's a 4-mana 3/3 gang minion to put a random potion in your hand, so you might get the crummy 0-mana "Freeze a minion" potion, or the sick "Deal 5 damage to Non-Dragon minions" for 6-mana one. Too much volatility to see consistent play outside of Arcane Giant/Yogg decks I would bet. The Legendary gang card here is sure to be played though, and is likely the best card of the set.
Kazakus—Legendary {4} 3/3: Battlecry: If your deck contains no duplicates, create a custom spell. How this works is you select a 1-mana, 5-mana, or 10-mana spell, and then you build it from a table of effects to maximize impact on the game, picking one effect, and then another. Your 1-mana spell might be Draw a card and deal two damage to all minions. 5-mana could be summon two friendly minions that died this game and gain 7 armor. 10-mana could turn your opponents minions into Sheep and put three random demons in your hand. Just crazy swingy effects, and you get to pick them. Refill your hand, blow up the board, rebuild your board, buff all your guys, deal damage and heal, &c. This card could make Beneath the Grounds a smart tech play. Renolock gets an enormous boost, and RenoMage and RenoPriest (doesn't need Reno himself) are going to be potent archetypes.

The Druid-Rogue-Shaman gang has the "Jade Golem" theme, explained above. For Druids especially, Jade Golems are going to be a thing. The ability to hurry them out with ramp and their high-quality class cards that generate them lead to an easy aggressive Druid build. Druids are the best class to exploit the Legendary here as well...
Aya Blackpaw—Legendary {6} 5/3: Battlecry and Deathrattle: Summon a Jade Golem. You'd have to be really unlucky to not be at at least three on your Golem counter by the time you play this, so her trash stat line shouldn't be read as 5/3 for {6} so much as 5/3, 3/3, and 4/4. Her cost is low-enough to enable Brann interactions as well. All this factored in, she represents one of the better values in the game, and is available to the class that has Savage Roar.

Druid decks of note
The big Druid deck now (after the Yogg nerf) is MalyDruid. Play lots of cheap spells, ramping to high mana draw effects, exploit Fandral and/or Emperor Thaurissan for a turn or two, then play Malygos and throw tons of heat at the opponent. Living Roots deals 7, Moonfire deals 6, with an Innervate and a tick, you can put out a 9/6 Swipe. Even if you don't have the heat to win right there, there are probably 0-costed Arcane Giants to handle as well. What cards are going to see play in this archtype?
Jade Idol—Rare {1} Choose One: Summon a Jade Golem or shuffle three copies of this into your deck. It's a cheap spell, it can be exploited by Fandral, and it makes more spells. The Gadgetzan Auctioneer build of MalyDruid would play this for sure. It routinely draws most of its deck, so the dilution is not a factor.
Jade Blossom—Common {3} Summon a Jade Golem. Gain an empty mana crystal. It's a spell, it ramps (also triggers Excess Mana if drawn late-game). Might see play in MalyDruid, but if the environment goes aggro, I don't think this will make the cut; as Mire Keeper would be more important to try to manage the board.

That said, both of these will definitely get played in the new Jade Golem Druid deck. Along with
Jade Behemoth—Common {6} 3/6: Taunt. Battlecry: Summon a Jade Golem. and some of the Gang cards noted above like Aya and
Jade Spirit—Common {4} 2/3: Battlecry: Summon a Jade Golem.. Horrid stat line should be read as 2/3 + 3/3 "at worst," and could easily be 2/3 + 6/6 or better. This is a 4-drop that you'd rarely play on turn 4.

This is enough for one post, I will do the rest of the current and emergent meta calls in a subsequent one in the next day or so.
Last edit: 29 Nov 2016 16:40 by jeb. Reason: fixed URL
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29 Nov 2016 16:46 - 29 Nov 2016 16:54 #239390 by MacDirk Diggler
Wow. Thanks for the time it took to write that. I have seen several reviews of the new set. Most notably Zalae. But only last two classes and commons. I missed his thoughts on Jade but got that he was down on the mechanic and thought it too slow. But the day before I saw Frodan playing a demo Jade Druid online with a game developer. I only caught turns 5-10 and that was enough. The deck is sick. I think he got a 5/5 and 6/6 as well as the base 5/3 off Aya Blackpaw. And the ten man thing that refreshes your mana is also a finisher most times. I saw that deck and realized Control anything is hosed by Jade. Just too many bigger and bigger minions popping off to reign all that shit in. It was at that moment I made a Cthun/ Elise warrior to finish these last days on the ladder. After the expansion it has no chance. I am having huge success with it and climbed to 7.
But Lifecoach has posited that Pirate Warrior, which is already a common Warrior build on ladder, may be THE top tier deck after expansion Zalae kind of agreed with that. For sure the game has swung even more aggro. If you can't kill your opponent by turn 8 you will be eaten alive by Jade. I don't see the 1/1 pirate with charge being any good with gang up really. You have to put Pirates in your deck then not play any until you have gang up in hand and mana left to use it or prep. I guess you can get it off turn 4 with swashburgler but by turn four if you don't have board in the dystopian aggro future you will be dead soon
Last edit: 29 Nov 2016 16:54 by MacDirk Diggler.
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29 Nov 2016 17:48 - 29 Nov 2016 17:50 #239394 by Jackwraith
Replied by Jackwraith on topic Hearthstone Players!
www.hearthpwn.com/guides/1840-mean-stree...-hearthstones-fourth

That's the full list. I agree with most of what Jeb said about Druids. They did give a couple nods to Beast Druid, but it just won't be able to compete with the Spell/Jade Druid stuff. They did ramp up Hunter's Beast somewhat, too, but a lot of it will just be too janky because of the RNG of "Give a random minion in your hand +2/+2." I mean, is Trogg Beastrager focused enough to go in a Hunter Beast deck? It's not a Beast and it contributes nothing other than being a 3/2 for 2 and it's only a +1/+1 bonus. Similarly, is Smuggler's Cache worth taking up a slot in your deck for a random effect that may lack a target?

I like the idea behind Greater Arcane Missiles, but I never liked the regular one, except as fuel for Antonidas. Potion of Polymorph may be even better than Mirror Entity, however. I love the concept of Wickerflame Burnbristle, since it could be used as a turn 7 play with Kings to create a 6/6 Dshield Taunt threat that's going to extend the game for you (wonder where I've seen that before...?), but that's a two-card combo you shouldn't depend on. But an early-game 2/2 Dshield Taunt guy who heals you isn't a bad play, either, in many circumstances. So he's a control/aggro hybrid to some degree. But, man, the aggro stuff: Small-time Recruits, Outfitter, Smuggler's Run. You could do a lot with that stuff and the tools Paladin already has.

Priest. Priest, Priest, Priest. So, I don't like Raza. The class that is least able to play Reno is Priest, mostly because the base cards still suck and you have trouble filling gaps. Plus, the class least likely to need Reno is Priest because you've either lost the game before you draw/can even play him or his healing is largely superfluous. Plus, plus, getting one of the worst hero powers in the game for free isn't an excuse to build a shitty deck. Sure, if you can find a way to build Kazakus Shadowpriest, you might be a god. But good luck trying to do Shadowpriest with only one Shadowform. On the plus side, Dragon Priest got boosted in a serious way, if you like that deck which I really don't. Dark Cultist was one of the best cards ever printed for Priest and Kabal Talonpriest is a better version (is not random, can't be silenced.) Mana Geode is pretty cool and a turn 2 Coin-PWS play could be backbreaking for a lot of decks. Oh, and Pint-sized Potion is the best potion in the set for Control Priest or maybe any Priest deck (so, the other one: Dragon.) We'll see.

And now we finally see why Master of Disguise had to be nerfed. Everyone was like "WTF?" when it got the axe along with Knife Juggler and others. I think the Stealth meta might be a thing and Luckydo Buccaneer is at least a playable big Pirate (for once.) I like that they bent toward the Evolve(Devolve) side of Shaman. I think Lotus Illusionist could be spectacular, but RNG is a factor. I don't grokk the point of White Eyes, though. The last thing Shaman needed was yet another 5/5 taunter with a potentially huge (ahem) upside. Because, you know, a 4 mana 7/7 doesn't see play anymore, so why not up the ante? Plus, N'Zoth Shaman could now be a serious thing. OTOH, the one class I'm totally meh on is Warlock. I get that they're trying to make Demon decks a reality and Bloodfury Potion is spectacular, but Apothecary is unplayable, Crystal Weaver is too restrained, and Abyssal does too much damage unless you're playing pure control Warlock, in which case it's too slow.

Grapplehammer and Pawnbroker are godlike for aggro Warrior and will be helpful even for control. The Taunt stuff... eh. I mean, yeah, sure, maybe Bolster will finally be a thing, but you're still looking for a win condition there. I love Madam Goya. Wrathion would be ideal for Dragon Priest if he was, you know, a Dragon. Auctionmaster Beardo might be awesome for Mage and Control Priest. I'd like to see an environment where Burglebot could work for Control Priest. There's a LOT of Arena dreck in the neutrals.

Overall: I'm not geeked about the set. I was thinking they might do the rotation since the current environment is so Midrange Toxic and I was planning on scrapping a bunch of cards to build new ones, since I will never spend another dime on HS. So I probably won't play that much, since I barely play now. There's some fun stuff, but nothing that compels me to log on.
Last edit: 29 Nov 2016 17:50 by Jackwraith.
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29 Nov 2016 18:38 #239396 by jeb
Replied by jeb on topic Hearthstone Players!

MacDirk Diggler wrote: Wow. Thanks for the time it took to write that. I have seen several reviews of the new set. Most notably Zalae. But only last two classes and commons. I missed his thoughts on Jade but got that he was down on the mechanic and thought it too slow. But the day before I saw Frodan playing a demo Jade Druid online with a game developer. I only caught turns 5-10 and that was enough. The deck is sick. I think he got a 5/5 and 6/6 as well as the base 5/3 off Aya Blackpaw. And the ten man thing that refreshes your mana is also a finisher most times. I saw that deck and realized Control anything is hosed by Jade. Just too many bigger and bigger minions popping off to reign all that shit in. It was at that moment I made a Cthun/ Elise warrior to finish these last days on the ladder. After the expansion it has no chance. I am having huge success with it and climbed to 7.
But Lifecoach has posited that Pirate Warrior, which is already a common Warrior build on ladder, may be THE top tier deck after expansion Zalae kind of agreed with that. For sure the game has swung even more aggro. If you can't kill your opponent by turn 8 you will be eaten alive by Jade. I don't see the 1/1 pirate with charge being any good with gang up really. You have to put Pirates in your deck then not play any until you have gang up in hand and mana left to use it or prep. I guess you can get it off turn 4 with swashburgler but by turn four if you don't have board in the dystopian aggro future you will be dead soon

Zalae was in the chat for that Grand National Champions review I mentioned above and was not always aligned with them or even in the majority on some fronts. I don't think Jade Golems will be great for Rogue or Shaman, but like I said, Druid can and will make that theme sing. That said, Frodan's Brann lived for two turns and that let him get away with a lot of craziness. THAT said that said, you're correct, Golems are going to be a problem for Control. Zetalot is not doing reviews, per se, but he did express this morning that "Jade Golems are dumb and should be capped at 5." What he's worried about is the recovery inherent to Jade Golem decks in long games. They are going to play out the 4/4 and 5/5 and you'll deal with them, then the 6/6 and the 7/7 (on the same turn mind you). You'll handle those, now comes the 8/8 and the 9/9 if you have access to Jade Idols. This is what's going to screw classic Control Priest and Control Warrior builds. (Honestly, good.)

I'll talk about Pirates in my next big post. Yeah, there is no way to look at these cards and not think about how to play with and against Pirates. Warrior and Rogue can both make very different, very effective Pirate decks. These are Wild quality as well.

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29 Nov 2016 21:43 - 29 Nov 2016 22:07 #239405 by jeb
Replied by jeb on topic Hearthstone Players!
Continuing my earlier post. I'll be talking about some other classes and archetypes influenced by Mean Streets of Gadgetzan, coming out on Thursday, Dec 1. Again, I’ll be working from HearthPwn’s Mean Streets Spoiler page , but only calling out some of the cards for comment. I won’t be paying much attention to Arena or Wild formats unless something really screams for it. And I am thinking about the cards quasi-competitively, but I can’t help my Johnny nature from making me comment on cards I think are awesome without them being necessarily good.

There's been some chatter about the worthiness of Jade Golems as an archetype. Zalae is down on it, there have been concerns on r/CompetitiveHS and elsewhere. I believe it's important to qualify that the archetype is not unfair, like, say, old Undertaker Hunter was or Midrange Shaman arguably is. Jade Golem Druid is going to be a good, commonly seen deck on the Ladder. Will it be 25% of the Ladder winning 55% of games like Undertaker Hunter? No. And that's good news--that deck was broken. We want an environment where nothing is north of 10% at the most, and should be winning as much as it loses, by and large. That's a meta worth designing and developing for and should be seen as the goal of Team 5.  

Shaman decks of note
Ok, so. We gotta talk about Midrange Shaman. You know this deck. It beats you every day you play Hearthstone. The one with the Spirit Claws and the 5/5's for free and Thunderbluff Valiants that always seem to buff at least four totems even if you just wiped out their board. This deck is gross and will continue to be gross. The question is: will it get grosser? Short answer: No. There isn't a card in the set that is strictly better than what it packs right now. Perhaps with one exception:  
Jinyu Waterspeaker—Rare {4} 3/6 Battlecry: Restore 6 Health. Overload: (1). As the game moves more Aggro, this lifegain would matter, and compared to the totally playable Antique Healbot, this is better. The heal can be targeted, a big deal in decks with big butt minions like Fire Elementals and Valiants, and it's 3/6 stats are a huge upgrade over Healbot. The downside is that its overload messes up your turn 5 plays, and these midgame turns are critical to the success of midrange decks. But given that this card is a disaster for Tempo Mage--one of the few decks that can routinely beat Midrange Shaman--this is going to see play. 

Folks probably want me to talk about
White Eyes—Legendary {5} 5/5 Taunt. Deathrattle: Shuffle "The Storm Guardian" into your deck. (The Storm Guardian is a, no joke, 10/10 Taunt for 5.) THAT'S CRAZY! But are you going to draw it? Does another 5/5 Taunt in Midrange Shaman matter? This one you have to pay for--the traditional 5/5 Taunts are free Things From Below. I don't know if I'd want to take out a Valiant or Fire Elemental for this. I think I'll win or lose before this could possibly matter. 

What about Aggro Shaman, of the small bubbled guys and Lava Bursts? Any changes there? Again, not really. I could see some new flavors develop, like Pirate Shaman, exploiting
Patches the Pirate—Legendary Pirate {1} 1/1: Charge. After you play a Pirate summon this from your deck. and perhaps
Naga Corsair—Common Pirate{4} 5/4: Battlecry: Give your weapon +1 Attack. with some Southsea Deckhands (2/1 Charge Pirates). Turn 5 Doomhammer hits for 4, turn 6 hits for 7, and turn 8 could hit for another 6-9 depending on their ability to clear things. ~Eh~ I am underwhelmed but folks will kick the tires. I think Aggro decks in general will take a look at 
Genzo, the Shark—Legendary {4} 5/4: Whenever this attacks, both players draw until they have three cards. That's Jeeves on a much bigger stick. This is one of those cards described as having "SuperTaunt." Even though it doesn't actually have Taunt, it needs to get dealt with before you do anything else. It's true they don't automatically get the cards like they do with Jeeves (an end-of-turn effect), but they do get them and can cast them on their turn if he does draw. And Jeeves is a 1/4--the saddest Aggro stats you ever did see. but you could play two of Jeeves...

I don't think Jade Golems make sense for Shaman in general. Their Jade Golem cards are kind of janky (a 2/2 weapon with Overload? A 4-damage spell for 4?) Making the top end 7-mana 7/7 Taunt guy that makes one garbage because you won't be making a decent one. Pass on that theme.

Could their be a Control Shaman build lurking in Standard... yeah. Sure. There is. But why bother? Midrange Shaman is so good it's like you're opting to play longer games for no reason. A Control build won't win more than Midrange, and will be harder to pilot. Why go through the strain? 

Rogue decks of note
MalyRogue, similar to MalyDruid, usually leverages a lot of card draw, and plays some early game threats like Edwin Van Cleef that can win on their own. They also tend to have a much better “Malygos turn" and will almost certainly kill you the turn the big dragon comes out off of Thaurissan-ticked Sinister Strikes for 8 and Preparation-Eviscerates for 9. What do they get from MSoG? Not a lot. The archetype that does definitely gain is Miracle Rogue, which uses crazy Gadgetzan Auctioneer turns to draw most of their deck and blow you out with Cold Bloods on stealthed Arcane Giants, Van Cleefs or Questing Adventurers. This is an impact card:
Counterfeit Coin—Rare {0} Gain 1 Mana Crystal this turn only. This probably makes it into both deck types, but is really exploited in Miracle. Miracle could also conceivably use
Burgly Bully—Epic {5} 4/6: Whenever your opponent casts a spell, add a Coin to your hand. This card is very attractive, coming out the turn before Gadgetzan and possibly clearing the board as they work to kill it and ideally netting a Coin to get the combo going. I don’t think MalyRogue uses this—it’d be better to just draw more cards and they don’t necessarily use the Gadgetzan engine.

Rogue will be able to play Pirates though, and build a solid “Zoo” deck based on these interactions. They get the Patches thing going early, along Buccaneer for a better Hero Power weapon powering up Southsea Deckhand, boosted by
Small-time Buccaneer—Rare Pirate {1} 1/2: Has +2 Attack when you have a weapon equipped. A Cogmaster that’s less conditional. You can buff your weapon via Southsea Squidface or Captain Greenskin or
Naga Corsair—Common Pirate {4} 5/4: Battlecry: Give your weapon +1 Attack. to make Dread Corsair easier to cast, buff Bloodsail Raider and maybe get that Skycap’n Kragg to playable. I must admit, I like turn 1, Small-time Buccaneer, attack for 1 with Patches, turn 2 Hero Power, coin Deckhand, attack for 3 + 2 + 1 + 1 = 7. Refill your hand with Genzo, Swashburgler, and what not.

Rogue gets a buff in Wild too! The Pirate deck ports well, and gets cooler/weirder with Ship's Cannon and Gang Up effects. I think Mill Rogue could also use
Daring Reporter—Common {4} 3/3: Whenever an opponent draws a card, gain +1/+1. Mill Rogue has Deathlord taunts to protect this, and a single Coldlight makes this a 6/6 by the time they get a turn to deal with it. It's not Edwin, but it ain't bad!

Rogue is the Hero that can beat the Kazakus decks too, with access to Beneath the Grounds to mess up deck uniqueness.

Whew. Two more gangs to go!
Last edit: 29 Nov 2016 22:07 by jeb.
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30 Nov 2016 13:54 - 30 Nov 2016 13:57 #239451 by jeb
Replied by jeb on topic Hearthstone Players!
Continuing my earlier post. I'll be talking about some other classes and archetypes influenced by Mean Streets of Gadgetzan, coming out on Thursday, Dec 1. Again, I’ll be working from HearthPwn’s Mean Streets Spoiler page , but only calling out some of the cards for comment. I won’t be paying much attention to Arena or Wild formats unless something really screams for it. And I am thinking about the cards quasi-competitively, but I can’t help my Johnny nature from making me comment on cards I think are awesome without them being necessarily good.

Hunter decks of note
Hunter's best option prior to MSoG is Secret Hunter, powered by Cloaked Huntress, letting you cheat out Secrets for free. You finish up with Call of the Wild and Ragnaros after doing the whole constantly-pressuring-you-playing-threats-every-turn thing that Hunters do. The only card that seems to be a good fit here is
Dispatch Kodo—Rare Beast {4} 2/4 Battlecry: Deal damage equal to this minion's Attack. The Secret in the set is trash (when an opponent plays a minion, handbuff a guy for +2/+2.) But this card is really good. Hunter is incredibly bad at controlling the board, so any kind of ping gets a lot of attention. It's got some weird stats, but that might work out, and can make for some fat-butted Taunts with Houndmaster right when Hunter needs it. Secret Hunter isn't an Aggro deck, it wins through threat accumulation, so the 2/4 isn't out of place. I could potentially see Hunter also playing
Knuckles—Legendary Beast {5} 3/7 When this attacks a minion it also hits the enemy hero. Again, weird stats, but the effect is nice and this card becomes unpleasant when Houndmaster'd. And another really great card is
Rat Pack—Epic Beast {2} 2/2 Deathrattle: Summon a number of 1/1 Rats equal to this minion's Attack. Beasts-that-make-Beasts are a big deal to Hunter, see Infested Wolf, Big Bad Wolf. These make Houndmaster better, as even AoE taking out your team keeps Houndmaster value the next turn, even if just buffing a 1/1.

These cards all get better in the hand-buff deck that is going to get built. Don Han'Cho, again, might be too big to make the cut, as you'd want to be doing all the hand-buffs on smaller dudes. No one cares about your turn nine 11/10 Highmane, it's the 5/5 Infected Wolf and 4/3 Fiery Bat on turn 5 that are the concern. Rat Pack or Dispatch Kodo getting buffs from
Trogg Beastrager—Rare {2} 3/2 Battlecry: Give a random Beast in your hand +2/+2. or
Shaky Zipgunner—Common {3} 3/3 Deathrattle: Give a random Beast in your hand +2/+2. is pretty cool. A turn 4 6/8 Kodo punching Bloodhoof Brave for 6 is a nice tempo play.

Warrior decks of note
Pirate Warrior. Full stop. Look at what I said about Pirate Rogue, and make it better. The weapons are better, the Pirates are better, the Hero power is better. And Warrior didn't even get any Pirates in this expansion! N'Zoth's First Mate (Patches!), Coin, Southsea lets you attack for 4 on turn 1, Upgrade the next turn to attack for 2 + 1 + 1 + 2 = 6. And you can drop a Taunt Corsair with your other mana. Holy shit. MSoG brings some weapon buffs too, like
Hobart Grapplehammer—Legendary {2} 2/2 Battlecry: Give all weapons in your hand and deck +1 Attack. and
Grimestreet Pawnbroker—Rare {3} 3/3 Battlecry: Give a random weapons in your hand +1/+1. I dream about 9/2 Gorehowls, but I would be fine with a 4/3 Fiery War Axe. A 4/3 FIERY WAR AXE. Save your dust for Harrison Jones, Control players.

Warrior can stymie Zoo decks and other Aggro nonsense with
Alley Armorsmith—Rare {5} 2/7 Taunt. Whenever this minion deals damage, gain that much armor. How obnoxious is this?

Pirate Warrior is a Tier 1 deck. Right up there with Midrange Shaman. With no printed Pirates for Warrior. Crazy.

There's a bunch of wonky Taunt interaction spells, someone will play Bolster, memes upon memes. No one cares.

Paladin decks of note
As noted by Jackwraith, Aggro Paladin is back, baby. It never really left, it was there in (pog) Bubble form with Steward of Darkshire, but it was a little janky and couldn't compete past the Rank 25-17 Aggro Hell. The new Aggro Paladin doesn't even need to be based on the throw-my-hand-away Divine Favor model, with
Small-time Recruits—Epic {3} Draw three 1-cost minions from your deck. This is pretty much what Divine Favor did half the time, and this is less conditional and more predictable/playable late-game! Also thins your deck of bad late-game cards (cf Mysterious Challenger) Ok, so the Argent Squires and these guys are in hand:
Grimscale Chum—Common Murloc {1} 2/1 Battlecry: Give a random Murloc in your hand +1/+1. and
Meanstreet Marshal—Epic {1} 1/2 Deathrattle: If this minion has 2 or more Attack, draw a card. Now what? How's about:
Smuggler's Run—Common {1} Give all minions in your hand +1/+1. See? That's a pisser. Refill your hand with bigger spells via Genzo, The Shark. This is a cool deck.

More controlly Paladins aren't out in the cold. You can continue to do your (boring) Anyfin thing, adding
Wickerflame Burnbristle—Legendary {3} 2/2 Divine Shield. Taunt. Damage dealt by this minion also heals your hero. and you can work out some tricks to get precious Warleaders and a Bluegills back with
Getaway Kodo—Common {1} Secret: When a friendly minion dies, return it to your hand. Snooozeville! But hey that's your call. I think there's a more fun Murloc Paladin deck to be built using
Finja, the Flying Star—Legendary Murloc {5} 2/4 Stealth. Whenever this attacks and kills a minion, summon 2 Murlocs from your deck. You set up that attack, pop out two Murloc Knights and Hero Power a whole new world. Good times.
Last edit: 30 Nov 2016 13:57 by jeb.

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30 Nov 2016 16:03 #239475 by jeb
Replied by jeb on topic Hearthstone Players!
Continuing my earlier post. I'll be talking about some other classes and archetypes influenced by Mean Streets of Gadgetzan, coming out on Thursday, Dec 1. Again, I’ll be working from HearthPwn’s Mean Streets Spoiler page , but only calling out some of the cards for comment. I won’t be paying much attention to Arena or Wild formats unless something really screams for it. And I am thinking about the cards quasi-competitively, but I can’t help my Johnny nature from making me comment on cards I think are awesome without them being necessarily good.

Last one! The Kazakus gang! I talked about Kazakus above. All these heroes will have Kazakus builds and do just fine. I think they will need to be built Midrange, as if they go too controllish, they risk getting rolled by Jade Golem Druid that can out-Control anyone. (Jade Idol even lets them dodge Fatigue for a million years, as Jade Idols in deck can turn into as many as they want 2 --> 6 --> 18, &c) I don't want to re-open the Druid discussion, but could Tree of Life/Jade Golem Druid become the most annoying deck in Wild?

Warlock decks of note
Renolock is good. It's gaining more decent AoE options as well with:
Felfire Potion—Rare {6} Deal 5 damage to all characters. along with
Abyssal Enforcer—Common Demon {7} 6/6 Battlecry: Deal 3 damage to all other characters. Along with Doomsayer, Hellfire, Twisting Nether, Demonwrath, Shadowflame--they will be controlling the board, folks. They will also play this Neutral card for it's interactions with Power Overwhelming:
Sergeant Sally—Legendary {3} 1/1 Deathrattle: Deal damage equal to this minion's Attack to all enemy minions.

Demonlock always gets a workout, and Kazakus spells can put Demons in your hand--but Demons are kind of bad. The Legendary for Warlock is a Demon and he Battlecries Demons in hand into play, but ~eh~. You need too much stuff to work out, I think. Too many of the effects give you random Demons, and you'll be sad when you see Felguard and Street Trickster (3-mana 0/7 Spell Damage +1(?)) instead of cool shit like Doomguard and Imp Gang Boss.

Zoo doesn't get too much of a buff. Genzo, I suppose, but cards aren't as much of a struggle for Zoo as the other classes. Sergeant Sally in case Shaman builds a scary board, perhaps. Zoo thrives on undercosted little guys, and there isn't much in this set for them. Maybe Kabal Courier, the 3-mana 2/2, Discover a card from your gang card? Nah.

Mage decks of note
Renomage is not as good as Renolock in general, due to the Hero power, but Kazakus is too attractive to ignore.
Inkmaster Solia—Legendary {7} 5/5 Battlecry: If your deck has no duplicates, the next spell you cast this turn costs (0). Alas, poor Cho'Gall, I hardly knew ye('ll). Yeah. Flamestrike. Firelands Portal. Cabalist's Tome if card starved. Those are things. Kind of a tempo swing here. Any Mage build got some generically good cards:
Kabal Crystal Runner—Rare {6} 5/5 Costs (2) less for each Secret you've played this game. Hmm. 5/5's for free, as long as you do stuff you were going to do anyway? At least this one doesn't have Taunt. Couple this with
Kabal Lackey—Common {1} 2/1 Battlecry: The next Secret you play this turn costs (0). That's annoying. Turn 4, Lackey (Ice Block), Lackey (Ice Barrier), Kabal Crystal Runner? Or do this after you play Flamewaker in Tempo Mage. Using this Secret:
Potion of Polymorph—Rare {3} Secret: After your opponent plays a minion, transform it into a 1/1 Sheep. Man, that is going to suck. I might play Flare and Eater of Secrets just out of spite.

Freeze Mage got nothing. Even with a Freezing Potion and a 7/7 for 5 (if an enemy is Frozen). There's no room in that deck.

Tempo Mage got all the little Lackey tricks above, and might look at Volcanic Potion (3-mana, deal 2 damage to all minions), but why bother? They could look at Burgly Bully too, Coins feed the beast in that deck.

Priest decks of note
There are no Priest decks that matter on the Ladder. It's a shit class. So, what does MSoG do to correct things?

Where to begin.... oh yeah, Dragons.
Drakonid Operative—Rare Dragon {5} 5/6 If you're holding a Dragon, Discover a card in your opponent's deck. along with (i cri evrytiem)
Dragonfire Potion—Epic {6} Deal 5 damage to all minions except Dragons. These cards are great, and make Dragon Priest not necessarily Tier 1 because Midrange Shaman and Pirate Warrior are unfair, but the top of Tier 2. The rotation of Lightbomb ruined Priest. More than anything, Priest needs midgame asymmetric removal. Your stuff dies, my stuff lives. "Greetings." Prior to MSoG, Priest spends mana on killing your guys and not doing anything, you spend mana on making more dudes and waiting for them to miss a draw. With a decent Dragonfire Potion, Priest can wipe your board, keep some of theirs, put you on the defensive and commence Operation Winning The Game. The problem, if this is a problem is that this deck is CRAMMED with 5-drops: Azure Drake, Drakonid Operative, Blackwing Corrupter--do you want 6 5-drops in your deck? Yeesh. When the meta is getting more aggressive, and you might still want Excavated Evil (also 5) or Holy Nova (5!)? Going to be some tough deckbuilding choices here. Personally, I am skipping the Evils and a Nova, and hoping my Taunts can hold em off until Dragonfire cleanses the earth.

Control Priest, which has gone from tier 1 to just tears (ba dum tisssh), will use the Potion just as a clear likely, and gets some other cool stuff to play with as well:
Pint-Sized Potion—Rare {1} Give all enemy minions -3 Attack this turn only. is a Shrinkmeister-effect that let's you Cabal Shadow Priest Tomb Pillager, Soggoth the Slitherer (!), Ancient of War, and other cool stuff. There's another Shadow Madness effect as well
Potion of Madness—Common {1} Gain control of an enemy minion with 2 or less Attack until end of turn. This is really cheap for the cost; but that it only gets the weeniest guys is tricky, as it'll be tougher to 2-for-1 the opponent's minions with it. Stock here goes up if an Aggro meta means folks play 3/2s more than 2/3s. There are some nice interactions for Northshire Cleric and
Mana Geode—Epic {2} 2/3 Whenever this is healed, summon a 2/2 Crystal.. That should keep Zoo busy and keep you in cards until you can get to Evils, Novas, and Auchenai-Circles and turn things. They also get to play with the neutral
Fel Orc Soulfiend—Epic {3} 3/7 At the start of your turn, deal 2 damage to this minion.. Obvious parallels to Injured Blademaster, a Priest staple, and makes the Reno build more attractive when coupled with another quality 3-drop:
Kabal Talonpriest—Common {3} 3/4 Battlecry: Give a friendly minion +3 Health..

There's a 4-cost Greater Healing Potion that heals a friendly character for 12 (no Auchenai tricks!), and the Legendary
Raza the Unchained—Legendary {5} 5/5 Battlecry: If your deck has no duplicates, your Hero Power costs (0) this game. seems like a better fit in the slower Wild Control Priest builds with Deathlord, N'Zoth, and taking the game to fatigue with Justicar Trueheart. The Shadowpriest deck that never quite gets off the ground can't use this well either, as it needs a Reno build, and you really want Shadowform at 2x.

Other weird shit to note
I'm including some items to think about here that are interesting to me but I am not sure what to do with, or that I just want to be ready for given the RNG in this game. Example: Doomsayer popping out of Piloted Shredder.
What happens if Evolve Shaman casts Evolve and one of their Totems becomes
Unlicensed Apothecary—Epic Demon {3} 5/5 Whenever you summon a minion deal 5 damage to your Hero. That could be VERY BAD. Not sure of how the timing works here, does anyone know?
There are TWO incredibly shitty 6-drops that be Evolved or Forbidden Shaped into now, the 2/3 Murloc and the 1/1 Big-Time Racketeer.
This card is weird and scary somehow:
Dopplegangster—Rare {5} 2/2 Battlecry: Summon two copies of this minion.. Some EU player will break this...
The worst card has to be Shaman's 1-mana, Discover an Overload card. Overload (1). That is Purify bad. Epic too! Going to make some Arena player throw her PC out the window.
I'm just going to leave this here, and ask you to think about Freeze Mage trying to handle this:
Mayor Noggenfogger—Legendary {9} 5/4 All targets are chosen randomly.
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30 Nov 2016 17:05 #239492 by SebastianBludd
Replied by SebastianBludd on topic Hearthstone Players!
No love for Blastcrystal Potion (4 mana spell, destroy a minion and one of your mana crystals) for Warlock? Zoo plays enough weenies that it might be able to survive the tempo loss, and Reno should be able to hold onto it long enough that the destroyed crystal won't be such a big deal. I think it's worth trying.

I also read an interesting comment on Reddit where someone posited that Spiked Hogrider (5 mana neutral rare minion, 5/5, Battlecry: If an enemy minion has Taunt, gain Charge.) was included in MSG as an anti-Sludge Belcher tech choice for wild. That's another one I might tinker with as a one-off depending on the Wild meta.

I think Paladin is better situated for the buff mechanic because of all of their great battlecries, as Jackwraith mentioned, and looking at some Paladin decks several of them only have 4 spells (Equality & Consecration) and two weapons (Truesilver), or 5 spells where the fifth is forbidden healing (N'Zoth/control), which would make the buffs more consistent. Grimestreet Outfitter (1/1 for 2 mana, give all minions in your hand +1/+1) might fit in bubble Paladin, and Grimestreet Enforcer 4/4 for 5 mana, give all minions in your hand +1/+1) might work in midrange/dragon. Grimestreet Protector looks like a win-more card and I'm not feeling Meanstreet Marshal. Burnbristle is intriguing but I wonder about it's viability as anything but anti-aggro tech. I'll see what Strifecro comes up with.

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30 Nov 2016 17:38 #239500 by jeb
Replied by jeb on topic Hearthstone Players!
I like Blastcrystal in Renolock just fine, I guess. It's Siphon Soul #2. But never in Zoo, no way. They'd rather Defender of Argus or even jam Unlicensed Apothecary with that mana and see if you can handle it.

I don't think Blizzard does anything as a nod to Wild, honestly. Everyone has a million ways to deal with Sludge Belcher there, and a charge 5/5 isn't anything amazing. I think they made Eater of Secrets to deal with Mysterious Challenger, but the rotation did that more effectively by rotating away their first 4 turns. It's definitely tech'd in all over the place in Wild though, so, maybe?

My Paladin deck option there is all about Small-time Recruits synergy, where 1-drops get a boost in deckbuilding. But you can make Paladin handbuff decks in all kinds of cool ways, you're right.

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30 Nov 2016 19:23 #239518 by Hex Sinister
Replied by Hex Sinister on topic Hearthstone Players!
I pre-ordered. The gf is going away for 11 days over the holidays so I figured I'd open packs and play. That's my excuse anyway =P
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01 Dec 2016 13:12 - 01 Dec 2016 13:14 #239569 by Mantidman
Replied by Mantidman on topic Hearthstone Players!
My results out of 50 pre-purchase packs:

1 Legendary
Wrathion opened 33 packs in.

8 Epics
Mana Geode
Greater Arcane Missile
Blubber Baron
Weasel Tunneler
Manic Soulcaster
Burgly Bully
Kabal Trafficker
Unlicensed Apothecary

Golden Rares
Bloodfury Potion
Lotus Agents
Bomb Squad

Golden Commons
Jade Chieftain
Alleycat

New Cards by Class
Druid = 5 Hunter = 5 Mage = 7 Paladin = 5 Priest = 6 Rogue = 5 Shaman = 6 Warlock = 8 Warrior = 4
Neutral = 34

85 out of 132 = 64.4% of the cards
dust for 13 rares = 260
dust for 91 commons = 455

will most likely dust the goldens.
Last edit: 01 Dec 2016 13:14 by Mantidman. Reason: additional comment
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