Hearthstone Players!

Well, I had the 50 pack deal and I did the quests and I had the gold for another 30 packs so that's 86 in all. From which I got a pitiful 4 legendary cards: Madame Goya, Kazakus and Sergeant Sally, twice. To add insult to injury, none of them look particularly useful. I'm hoping the RNG will be redressing this balance in the near future.

One thing that is curious about Hearthstone is how skewed the RNG can be, even over the long term. Out of those 80 packs I got 6 rare Jade Idols and just one common Kabal Talonpriest.

Kazakus can be amazing IF you're willing to go the Reno route. Since both cards require singles throughout the deck, you might as well take advantage of the game-lengthening capacity of Reno while you're waiting to create the potion of doom with Kazakus. I hate- HATE -the concept of Reno decks., mostly for that RNG principle you're mentioning. If I'm whipping your ass, no single topdeck should enable to you to reset the game. What I like about Kazakus is that there's actual strategy involved in what kind of potion you produce, in the same way that Discover cards are superior to just random draw cards: your choice has impact on the game.

But, yeah, overall that sounds like pretty awful luck. I scored one legendary out of my lucky 13 packs- Wickerflame Burnbristle, who's kind of a wonky card that might be aggro or might be control or might fit into a Paladin buff deck. At the very least, there's room for experimentation with him. I scrapped a bunch of stuff and put together a standard Druid Jade deck and a Dragon Priest, neither of which I'm overly fond of (although Drakonid Operative is, indeed, Drakonid OP; a 5/6 for 5 is already good, but Discovering a card from your opponent not only gives you an opportunity to pick something good but also gives you intel on the opponent.) I'd like to try a Paladin buff deck, but it requires too many cards that I don't have. Maybe once the year rotates and I scrap a bunch of old stuff.

Maybe it's just me but Reno is fun murder.

I've opened about 40 packs so far, and picked up two Legendaries - the Warlock guy who summons all the demons in your hand if you play Reno-style, and a gold Mayor Whatever, with magic stupid RNG powers to make the game annoying while he's briefly alive, for only 9 mana.

On the plus side, I can dust him for someone useful, I just haven't decided who yet.

Hex Sinister wrote: Maybe it's just me but Reno is fun murder.

Not just you. It's a hateful card that exists almost entirely for the smug satisfaction of spoiling someone else's game by playing him just as they think they're about to win. I can't wait until he's cycled out.

There's a Reno Priest deck that's possible in this expansion that seems, to me, like one of the most broken things in the history of the game. Reno plus Raza the Unchained plus Justicar Trueheart. Free four health heal every turn plus one full heal on demand. I just don't see how that's beatable, even if it takes you to fatigue. Fortunately that, at least, won't last long if I understand the year cycle correctly, as I think Trueheart will be gone from standard soon.

Speaking of fatigue, it struck me last night you could also build a truly hideous Druid fatigue deck with Jade Idol. All those big taunt minions, plus some healing and armour, throw in Coldlight Oracle and a bit of removal then use Jade Idol to ensure your deck never runs out. Sit behind your wall and watch your opponent fatigue to death.

Early days yet, but I'm really not sure this expansion is going to be good for the game.

Heh. The big Reno Priest deck of the moment is one that uses Raza the Unchained, Coldarra Drake, and Shadowform. Basically, you drop Raza and then follow with the Drake and Shadowform (using Reno to make sure you get to those cards, since they're all singles) and then just burn your opponent down in a single turn, no matter how high their life total. Today's phrase is: "degenerate combo".

The thing that bugs me about Reno is that, from a design standpoint, it's a patch card. In the summer of 2015, aggro ruled the day. There was basically no stopping it and control decks were almost absent from the meta except for Control Warrior, which required a ridiculous amount of legendaries to function (and still does, kinda.) So they released League of Explorers as kind of a surprise at BlizzCon, which also introduces Reno as the counter to all the aggro. If you had it in hand, it didn't matter how much aggro was on the board. Make it to turn 6 and their hand is empty and you take control of the game. The problem, of course, is actually having it in hand and the fact that the rest of your deck has to be singles. They were trying to put in an element that both encouraged new players (if you only have to have one card each to be effective, it's a lot fewer packs/dust to build the deck) and patch over the fact that RNG and unrestrained aggro were driving older players away. Thus, Reno. It's basically a stopgap until they could try to adjust the game long-term, which they're now in the process of doing. It's cheap design to try to address central problems with the game (no deck manipulation, too much randomness, importance of tempo from the resource system leading to an lesser ability to play from behind, etc.) It's basically just another symbol of why I don't play much, anymore.

For the most part, I think that you guys sell Reno a little short. It is one of the few cards that makes some of non-aggro Warlock playable. Everything shouldn't have to be a rush to see how quickly you can get dudes out.

Also, while Reno itself can feel like a "cheat", in the context of a Warlock deck, I think that building a deck with all Singletons is a difficult and playing it is difficult. Knowing when to play everything appropriately is hard, reminds me of Type I in magic (which I love).

I imagine that they will take care of the stupid Reno Priest deck in short order.

Space Ghost wrote: For the most part, I think that you guys sell Reno a little short. It is one of the few cards that makes some of non-aggro Warlock playable. Everything shouldn't have to be a rush to see how quickly you can get dudes out.

He wasn't a problem in Renolock. You know what you're up against with that. He was a problem in every other class that had the potential to use him. And now that includes, well, pretty much all the classes.

Space Ghost wrote: I imagine that they will take care of the stupid Reno Priest deck in short order.

I don't. The Hearthstone team have a mantra of not fixing anything until weeks and weeks have been spent proving conclusively over and over again that something is broken. And he's due to cycle out in a few months, so that'll probably be fast enough by their standards.

TBH I don't think I've been so deflated at the launch of an expansion, ever. All I seem to be hitting is troll decks of one sort or another.

Have BRM and The Great Tournament phased out of Standard yet? Aren't they supposed to? Or is it at the start of the New Year, once people have a little time to get some of the new cards?

That'll get rid of Trueheart, Coldarra Drake, and some of that other nonsense. And Emperor Thaurissan! Blah, that's a card that is better than Reno by a lot.

I'm not too into Hearthstone at the moment- Pokemon GO basically replaced it. I do my dailies now and then- I've had a ton of fun with my Murloc Paladin that sprinkles in Cult Masters.

Jexik wrote: And Emperor Thaurissan! Blah, that's a card that is better than Reno by a lot.

What are the odds of a Priest even getting a Coldarra? 10%, something like that? I'd much rather play against a gimmicky, inconsistent deck like that rather than a Freeze Mage where I know I've lost as soon as Thaurissan hits the board.

Reno's annoying but I've done 50+ damage plenty of times to beat a Reno deck. In my mind, it's not all that different than a Warrior getting 25+ armor you have to burn through. I really only see Reno in Mage and Warlock decks but he only really ever takes me by surprise in the Mage decks when I'm 3-5 damage short of finishing off my opponent. If I played more often and paid more attention to my opponent's deck I'd probably pick up on Reno earlier, but that's my problem.

Another card Reddit was abuzz about was Dirty Rat (Neutral Epic 2 Mana (2/6): Taunt, Battlecry: Your opponent summons a random minion from their hand.) as a combo breaker to neutralize battlecries and/or kill the minion outright. I don't have one but it looks intriguing. Has anyone had a chance to experiment with it and do any of you think it's viable as a tech card?

I don't have Wickerflame Burnbristle but I discovered him during a game and got a chance to play with him a bit. I don't think I would mind playing him unbuffed on curve against midrange/control and I think he'll be flat out amazing with BoK/Smuggler's Run/Outfitter. He's basically, for one more mana, an Annoy-O-Tron with +1 Attack and an upside. He's awkward to deal with on Turn 4 and as one of the few Divine Shield + Taunt minions in the game, I'm going to keep an eye on him.

Recently I made a Reno deck that virtually never wins, but regularly got a lot of "Wow," and my friend laughed for a long time about it:

The wincon is Elise, sort of... but it doesn't actually work. Maybe an Arcane Golem and some hand/renolock type stuff would work.

Cyclotron (Paladin)

Blessing of Wisdom
Competitive Spirit
Eye for an Eye
Noble Sacrifice
Repentance
Sacred Trial
Selfless Hero
Bloodmage Thalnos
Equality
Loot Hoarder
Novice Engineer
Acolyte of Pain
Coldlight Oracle (murloc)
Divine Favor
Ironbeak Owl (beast)
Consecration
Cult Master
Elise Starseeker
Hammer of Justice
Keeper of Uldaman
Polluted Hoarder
Azure Drake (only dragon)
Cult Apothecary
Holy Wrath
Solemn Vigil
Emperor Thaurissan
Mysterious Challenger
Reno
The Curator

The best part is when you get a Yogg or a second reno from the golden monkey.

Man, I love this update! The game has slowed down, and the meta is all over the place. I am sorry if you ran into some shitty decks, but I am building all kinds of crazy stuff, and seeing all kinds of crazy stuff. Winning and losing in romps, winning and losing some heartbreakers. Nothing has been frustrating me outside of some topdecks and I can't say that about how the game was a week ago with everyone playing Shaman. Shaman is one of the least frequently seen decks now, which is great. The Midrange Shaman deck is still awesome, and I rolled some folks with It (adding ONE card from this expansion; they really dumped on Shaman.)

Ok, so, were a few days in here... my best performing deck is Reno Dragon Shadow Priest. I am sorry, MattDP and the others, but it's a viable deck, and I think it's fair given all the decision points. I need to auto-squelch folks to make sure I can think my way through things each turn. Compare to Derpy Pirate Warrior who puts in about 2 seconds per turn. I wouldn't complain about Reno as much as Drakonid Operative. Holy smokes, that is a game winner. Discover is a decent mechanic on its own, but letting you discover cards good enough to be put in the opponents' constructed decks is siiiiick. (I MAY have just gotten a Roaring Torch from a Tempo Mage last game. maybe.)I play more than one build of this theme, there are a lot of ways to go. One is more anti-Aggro, with the Half-size Potion and SW:Horror, the other is more traditional Control with Ysera and other long-game cards. I would never play Justicar here, NOT a combo with Shadowform. You also can't count on Coldarra, as that's a Mage card, and the odds there are not good. The deck is good enough without Raza for me to win consistently, losses usually coming down to late-game Jade Golems I can't handle. You need to smOrc in that matchup, they will eventually out-value you.

I have also been playing a smattering of Paladin Aggro builds with handbuffs, Tempo Warrior with a mixed Dragon/Pirate thing, and lots of Druid, both Jade (already boring) and the return of Moonkin Druid, this time not afraid of drawing the whole deck because at some point Jade Idol will appear and save you.

Some of you might not have been playing when things were really bad with Undertaker Hunter. THAT shit was broken. The game might be annoying at times, and even frustrating, but it's fun. Metas where you get kiilled by turn four or lose to Freeze Mage or Control Warrior are way shittier. Here you lose to all kinds of interesting things and it takes a minute to figure it out. Sometimes they draw the nuts. I had a Warrior game in the bag against Murloc Paladin, but he telepathically realized he needed to DOUBLE Doomsayer (turn 5 mind you) and I could only generate 13 damage that turn. The rest of the game took a while and he gained a good 30 extra life. Why that's is Ok with y'all but not Reno is beyond me.

@jexik, standard doesn't rotate until the first SET is released in a new year. We saw a rotation in April with WotOG, and probably won't see one in 2017 until June or so as a guess.

jeb wrote: Ok, so, were a few days in here... my best performing deck is Reno Dragon Shadow Priest. I am sorry, MattDP and the others, but it's a viable deck, and I think it's fair given all the decision points.

It's not about whether there's decision points. It's about whether the deck is fun for your opponent to play against. Which it decidedly isn't.

jeb wrote: Some of you might not have been playing when things were really bad with Undertaker Hunter. THAT shit was broken.

I was, and it was. And it was more problematic because it was cheap so everyone could run it whereas Highlander decks are very reliant on legendaries and expensive. But at least it broke you quickly so you could move on, rather than spinning you out with the illusory hope of a possibly victory for 15 minutes.

jeb wrote: The rest of the game took a while and he gained a good 30 extra life. Why that's is Ok with y'all but not Reno is beyond me.

It's not okay. I can't nail every combo but in general, mass life regain is not okay. Secret Paladin was not okay. Greater Healing Potion is not okay either. After mechs vs minions when there were a bunch of decks going round that used various methods to clone Antique Healbots things got almost as frustrating as they are now. Freeze Mage, thankfully, has never been that popular but it's equally bad.

This isn't about control vs aggro. It's about games dragging out way beyond their welcome length. It's about the trollish nature of letting your opponent think they've won and then snatching that away from them in a single turn. It's about ensuring the game is fun for both players, not just the one doing the deceiving or hitting the face.

It's reached the point for me that whenever I feel I might be up against a highlander deck, I just concede. With this following on from months of tiresome Shaman dominance, I might just concede playing the game as a whole soon.

Well, I went on a rant about why I think Reno is wack but I'm certain you've all heard it before. Plus I am still a n00b so instead:

Here's my funniest win of the day:

Turn 7 -
Thistle Tea

Turn 8 -
Coin, Perdition's Blade x3 (from Tea) 6 direct damage to face = WINNER
(yes, my decks are shit like that)

I'm sorry, Matt. I don't share the same frustration with Reno. He's a one-of in a 30 card deck, and there aren't any tutoring effects that can retrieve him. I have played and lost with Reno decks enough to know he's not a sure thing by any stretch.

I think perhaps some of you could benefit from recognizing game states and conceding earlier. With my aggressive decks, there are games I can't win, and I know it. If I got them to 8 life by turn 7, and they Reno and my board is empty, hand is empty, and they have five cards--I just lost. I don't need to drag it out. Even with stuff on the board... That stuff is just Entomb targets eventually. This is why I hate playing against Paladin and Freeze Mage more than Reno decks. You need to kill the former like three times and they need to be topdecking constantly to handle the board it seems. Reno decks either Reno or don't. I feel some sense of closure with that. And Midrange decks usually don't care if they Reno, those just kill them again. Think Hunter when Call cost 8 or Shaman. The board recovery is so strong 60 life is not different from 30.

You should be building aggro decks to kill with a burst of damage, from like 12 or so. This compels them to either Reno early enough that you can still come back and win, or it won't matter because the burst punches through. Hang in to those Soulfires, floating Mana even, you need them to think your board of weenies will put them at 8 instead of killing them from 16.

There is a pretty gross, very expensive Druid deck out there too. At ten Mana, Aviana into Kun to replace the Mana, into Malygos, into Faceless Manipulator for Maly#2, into Gadgetzan Auctioneer and burn them out with 11 damage Moonfires that draw more burn. It sounds ridiculous, and it will be rare, given the investment in quasi-bad Legendaries, just a heads up.