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TOPIC: Hearthstone Players!

Hearthstone Players! 08 Oct 2017 02:04 #255337

That's awesome. Congrats, man! Did the Grimstreet Protectors really come into play? I've found them almost impossible to use in any kind of constructed Paladin deck, because they just take too much setup to make them worth their cost. I was thinking of trying to make them fit in my Bubble deck, but just can't find the space.
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Hearthstone Players! 08 Oct 2017 04:47 #255339

rocketkiwi wrote:
It's been a LONG while, but I finally managed to squeeze out another 12 win arena run (and it's Paladin, again).

i.imgur.com/V7n2Lhl.png

Keleseth is insane. INSANE. Losses were game 1 and game 4. The easiest game of the entire run was the 12th win, which was a weird experience. I even misclicked a minion placement costing my Tar Creeper 2 health and it ended up not mattering.

Well played, that man.

Keleseth is pretty sweet. I crafted it last week and I'm glad I did: it was the missing piece in tempo Rogue and I've really been enjoying playing the deck. First time I've had a good time with Hearthstone since the expansion dropped.
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Hearthstone Players! 08 Oct 2017 16:14 #255353

MattDP wrote:
rocketkiwi wrote:
It's been a LONG while, but I finally managed to squeeze out another 12 win arena run (and it's Paladin, again).

i.imgur.com/V7n2Lhl.png

Keleseth is insane. INSANE. Losses were game 1 and game 4. The easiest game of the entire run was the 12th win, which was a weird experience. I even misclicked a minion placement costing my Tar Creeper 2 health and it ended up not mattering.

Well played, that man.

Keleseth is pretty sweet. I crafted it last week and I'm glad I did: it was the missing piece in tempo Rogue and I've really been enjoying playing the deck. First time I've had a good time with Hearthstone since the expansion dropped.
I crafted him too! I wanted to try and get Quest Hunter to work (I should stop, it's not healthy) but Keleseth does all kinds of cool things. Rogue can easily abuse him with Shadowstep, generating gallons of value. Hunter's not bad either if you can luck into him with Stitched Tracker.
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Hearthstone Players! 08 Oct 2017 17:01 #255354

It's interesting: finding a fun deck helped me put my finger on what it is I'm not enjoying about the game right now. It's not the long games - although that doesn't help - it's the focus on, for want of a better phrase, "cheap cheat" defences. Doomsayer, Frost Nova, Spreading Plague, Ice Block, Shadow Word: Horror. There are lots of others. Cards that stop you using a hard fought board position to your advantage or, worse, punish you for that position or, worse, just wipe everything.

That's the bedrock of the game at the moment, and it sucks. It's no fun at all. It's just to people doing their best make each other's games as miserable as possible until someone wins.

I get that this has been the cornerstone of control decks, OTK deck and mills decks since forever. I get that some people like it and that it certainly takes skill to play well. But that's pretty much the whole game right now, and I don't like it. People say to play aggro instead but that's almost as bad, and most aggro decks are bust right now. But that Tempo Rogue deck isn't aggro: it's got a bunch of sweet tricks to work around all the blocks and the freezes and nerfs and it's fun to work out what you can leverage. In a game the other day I won by playing SI:7 Agent three times with Shadowstep and Shadowcaster for 6 damage out of nowhere and it was magical.
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Hearthstone Players! 08 Oct 2017 21:08 #255360

Jackwraith wrote:
That's awesome. Congrats, man! Did the Grimstreet Protectors really come into play? I've found them almost impossible to use in any kind of constructed Paladin deck, because they just take too much setup to make them worth their cost. I was thinking of trying to make them fit in my Bubble deck, but just can't find the space.

In a deck like that one that oppresses you with value from Keleseth, weapons, Faceless Manipulator, etc, etc, Grimestreets are often backbreaking because you already hold the board with big minions and then you give them Divine Shield to trade and strangle what little hope they had left. It's a great arena card for the same reason Deathspeaker is: trading without trading makes getting the board extremely difficult.
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Hearthstone Players! 08 Oct 2017 22:47 #255364

MattDP wrote:
It's interesting: finding a fun deck helped me put my finger on what it is I'm not enjoying about the game right now. It's not the long games - although that doesn't help - it's the focus on, for want of a better phrase, "cheap cheat" defences. Doomsayer, Frost Nova, Spreading Plague, Ice Block, Shadow Word: Horror. There are lots of others. Cards that stop you using a hard fought board position to your advantage or, worse, punish you for that position or, worse, just wipe everything.

That's the bedrock of the game at the moment, and it sucks. It's no fun at all. It's just to people doing their best make each other's games as miserable as possible until someone wins.

I get that this has been the cornerstone of control decks, OTK deck and mills decks since forever. I get that some people like it and that it certainly takes skill to play well. But that's pretty much the whole game right now, and I don't like it. People say to play aggro instead but that's almost as bad, and most aggro decks are bust right now. But that Tempo Rogue deck isn't aggro: it's got a bunch of sweet tricks to work around all the blocks and the freezes and nerfs and it's fun to work out what you can leverage. In a game the other day I won by playing SI:7 Agent three times with Shadowstep and Shadowcaster for 6 damage out of nowhere and it was magical.
Ooh, well said, Matt. I like that you found a way to bring the magic back—turning one's deck into a puzzle is what I like most about the game. Can I win this game given what I am seeing right now? Those little things like seeing how you can exploit this battlecry to make that deathrattle fire to make that happen to trigger this effect and get the win. I love that stuff. This is why I complained so long and loud about Quest Rogue before the nerf. It didn't matter what deck I played. The whole game—their plays and my plays—all turned on their ability to resolve the Quest and kill me with bullshit 5/5s. That was it. There was no chance for nuance.

You make a really good point that the game is all about making the opponent miserable. I don't see it quite that way, but I do see the game as being very focused on making your opponents mistakes as impactful as possible. I am Priest. You are whoever you are. You are making minions on curve and dealing me down to 12 or so—why am I not conceding? Because it's turn 5, I have The Coin and am about to FUCK you up with Dragonfire Potion. Did you play more dudes into my Dragonfire Potion? That is a mistake. And I will try to punish you for it.

I don't mind losing games that are well-played. I go crazy if lose to bad plays. If their deck is so tuned that even making a bunch of mistakes still gets them a win; it's very frustrating. Sometimes they draw the nuts and just obliterate you—I am OK with this too. Big Priest is frustrating because it relies on RNG to win. They need Barnes early and they need him to get something ridiculous. But if you know it's Big Priest, you start saving up your effects to handle the situation. Unless they luck into The Lich King early and you can't deal, they win pretty slowly. Ysera or Obsidian Statue 4-ATKing you nothing takes a bit. Long enough, hopefully for me to craft an OTK in my Malygos Rogue deck—around turn 8, the Big Priest player should be wondering, "why hasn't jeblucas conceded?" Their mistake is wasting a Lesser Heal on some dude, leaving themselves on 26 life on my turn 10.
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Hearthstone Players! 09 Oct 2017 10:42 #255370

Just discovered that Frost Lich Jaina combos with Baron Geddon to turn the latter into a big, fat, lifestealing machine: two health, every turn, for every other minion on the board.

That seems pretty broken.
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Hearthstone Players! 09 Oct 2017 12:56 #255376

Yep. The rumor is that they wanted Elemental Mage to be more of a thing, so the wording on Jaina is "Elementals", not "Water Elementals." So you can get Lifesteal with a Tar Creeper if you have one. Given the amount of single-target removal in the game, it's really not that huge of an issue. Exodia Mage doesn't routinely run Geddon and I don't know if there's a solid Elemental Mage deck out there. The interesting thing about the current meta is that while there's healthy class diversity, there isn't really healthy deck diversity. Most classes play one deck: Razakus Priest, Exodia Mage, Murloc Paladin, Keleseth Rogue, Jade Druid, Evolve Shaman, and no Hunter. The exceptions are Warlock with Zoo and Control (both using Gul'dan) and Warrior with Pirate, Dead Man's Hand, and Quest.
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Hearthstone Players! 09 Oct 2017 15:59 #255389

If we're talking Standard Decks, here's what I see out in the Rank 15s.
Priest: Big, Razakus, smattering of Mill/Dragon
Mage: Quest (Exodia and Giants flavors), Secret Tempo, Elementals
Warlock: Control, Zoo
Paladin: That one deck they always play with the Murlocs and shit
Hunter: SmOrc (Asmo)
Warrior: Dead Man's Hand, Pirates (never ever Quest up here)
Shaman: Evolve
Druid: Jade
Rogue: Keleseth

What's amazing is the power of the Death Knights. They are throughout here. Mage skips out other than with Elementals. I guess Paladin could do without. and Pirate Warrior. But other than those, they totally dominate in Standard. I guess that's what they were after? Always chasing the new set?
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Hearthstone Players! 09 Oct 2017 17:44 #255395

Probably. The power of the cards is self-evident, except for the Paladin one, which is a complete gimmick. There's no reason to not play them, as evidenced by the best of them (Gul'dan) being played in wholly different decks (Zoo and Control.) He also has the advantage of his Battlecry effect being centered around the only class-unique tribe in the game (Demons), which has viable minions at both ends (aggro and control) of the spectrum. Even Garrosh, who doesn't entirely fit the Pirate aggro model, is useful because it gives you a 4/3 weapon that can remove multiple Taunts at once, allowing your Pirates to get through. It's interesting, too, because the quests were nowhere near as good. You COULD make decks around them, but many were just unworkable (Warlock, Paladin) and the rest other than Mage and Rogue weren't good enough to displace the other archetypes that you could also make out of Un'Goro and previous sets.

They're usually a couple sets ahead in design, so the idea that they saw how the quests were (not) working and decided to ramp up the DKs is possible, but not likely. I think they wanted to make the DKs appealing so that people would chase them, but I wonder if they were aware of the impact that the Quests had in general card availability. You can play Control Warlock without Gul'dan. You can't play Quest Warlock without the quest (well, you can't play it with the quest, either.) I know the changes in the mercy rule were a response to the complaints about the inability to fully experience Un'Goro without spending a ton on packs in order to find the one card that you absolutely needed in order to play the new deck. You don't need the DK to play current decks but, of course, the reality is that you DO need it in order to compete with everyone else. I'm wondering how far ahead they were able to anticipate what's happening.

BTW, Kripp did the neverending Defile chain in Wild with Grim Patron the other day. I think there's a hard cap of actions per turn, because at some point the chain just stopped, even though it should have kept going forever:
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Hearthstone Players! 10 Oct 2017 00:40 #255412

I've been playing HS since the second week of the closed beta. I play a lot less than I used to, but I've been impressed by the Knights expansion and so have been playing more often (as my posts here have revealed.) But one of the cards that I've always wanted to use regularly since the beta is Sword of Justice. I love the concept of the card because it fits Paladin so well. It meshes perfectly with making Dudes and you don't have to play the bad Death Knight to get 2/2 Dudes for 2 mana. Plus, you can get rid of annoying pirate worms and other minor things. I hung up my SoJs when people discovered the wonders of Harrison Jones and because it just couldn't keep pace with the increasing speed of the game. A 1/5 weapon on 3, even with the potential inherent to it, just didn't work most of the time. Speaking of Harrison, if any of you have never seen the jackpot video, you should watch this now:


When Handbuff was first introduced in Mean Streets, I jumped all over it as one of my one or two decks I was going to play in that expansion. I loaded up with Grimestreet guys, grabbed my Sword of Justice and... accomplished jack-all. It was just too slow and cost too much to make it worthwhile, just like SoJ, which I'd included in early versions of that and my Bubble deck when Rallying Blade was released. Plus, it had timing issues if you didn't draw cards in the right order. Donais said during an interview that they recognized that the Grimestreet theme had kind of flopped and they were hoping that later cards would make it viable. Un'Goro did nothing for it, but Knights... Knights did a lot for it. I tried Kibler's version, but it was just too controlly and kept trying to solve the obvious gaps, rather than focusing on out-minioning the opponent. So I shelved it, without even thinking about my Swords. I'm not usually a fan of StanCifka's decks. I think they're too janky and are too combo-y for my tastes. But he put up a handbuff deck with SoJ tonight and I took it out for a spin.

hsreplay.net/replay/SjwB5NktFxik2Vxro7jK7m

The opponent was controlly Evolve, like mine. It's strange in that Handbuff is a minion deck, but you don't really want to play your 1 or 2 drops until you get a buff on them. This is the problem that always plagued Handbuff before: you fall behind in tempo and then your buffs aren't enough to regain control of the situation. But with Keleseth, SoJ, Corpsetaker, Chain Gang, and Bonemare, you can now recover pretty nicely. I Coined out Keleseth before I drew another minion and then chose to use the Rallying Blade to clear because you want to keep the board with this deck. I was content to use the second charge of the Blade on the 1/2 because I wanted to do the SoJ/Patches combo on the next turn. That's a 2/3, a 3/3, and a weapon for 4 mana. Some good. During the game, he twice went for the Wrath/Lightning Storm combo, but came up Searing both times. Still, he took down most of my board the first time. I decided to clear the Searing with the Marshal to preserve the bubble on my Corpsetaker, as a 5/5 Windfury with bubble is even better than "just" a 5/5 Windfury. Volcano ended that, but Marshal at least served a purpose. I never felt that card was worthwhile because the timing issues were especially prominent. So, he wiped out a great board and I just reloaded one. He didn't have the other Volcano and a topdecked Bonemare was the finisher.

hsreplay.net/replay/teL9aDuenL97uUKiTgj7M8

The opponent was a gold Paladin trying some kind of Deathrattle brew. In most minion decks, mine would be a problematic opening hand. In this one, it was OK. I was fine using the Run here, because 2 3/4s is enormous value and making the Enforcer harder to kill is always a good thing (at least, when you're not facing Priest.) I was fine just making a Dude, knowing I could apply the SoJ buff to the Protector and likely be able to save its bubble and maybe get another buff on it with the Blade... which I then did when he Oozed my SoJ (1 Armor is a much better result than Harrison...) So, now it's a 3/3 with bubble. The Tomb Lurker had me scratching my head, especially since he played it into two ways of killing it for free and it was only going to get him a Loot Hoarder. He played the Crusader, but I was like "Yeah. I got bubbled Taunts, yo. That 2/2 ghoul is never arriving and I'm going to beat you senseless with this here Enforcer." Meanwhile, my hand grows ever more grotesque. He pulls out Equaconsec but my Protector survives and now it's Bonemare turn. Even dropping Tirion does nothing for him.

So, it's an interesting deck and one I'm kind of enthused about taking farther. We'll see what happens. My only quest right now is to play Hunter cards I no longer own.
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Hearthstone Players! 10 Oct 2017 04:34 #255414

jeb wrote:
What's amazing is the power of the Death Knights. They are throughout here. Mage skips out other than with Elementals. I guess Paladin could do without. and Pirate Warrior. But other than those, they totally dominate in Standard. I guess that's what they were after? Always chasing the new set?

This is interesting because that's not what I'm seeing on EU at the same rank. People are playing the Priest and Druid DK's regularly but that's about it. I see most of the others, but only occasionally. I don't think I've ever actually seen the warrior one in play.

For my money the weakest one of the lot is Rogue, although I've played against it a couple of times. It buys you an extra turn of life but that's about it.
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Hearthstone Players! 10 Oct 2017 20:25 #255481

Extra turns are pretty good, see the Mage Quest for examples. And Rogue exploits extra turns better than most, especially in the late game when they get free copies of their cards from their new Hero Power and you eat a Charging Cold-Blooded whatever-the-hell.

The worst DK by far is Paladin. Hero Power becomes a total gimmick. The sword is debatably better than Tirion's, but Tirion is a 6/6 Taunt that gives you a cool sword. Paladin DK is 5 Armor and costs 1 more!
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Hearthstone Players! 10 Oct 2017 23:59 #255486

Ranked in order:
Gul'dan: In raw power, simply the best. Not only does it resummon multiple minions, but it also lets you burn things down while healing yourself.
Varian: The ability to simply machine gun down your opponent and his entire board can't be disputed. But what truly makes it the best at the moment is Raza. Once he rotates, Gul'dan will be the clear top dog.
Malfurion, Jaina (tied): The versatility of both of these, plus the associated minions, make them usable in almost any deck, similar to Gul'dan and Varian. However, they're not quite the game enders that those two are.
Valeera: With a properly-tuned and -played deck, Valeera can easily finish games. It's not just the turn of stealth. It's the ability to pull off ridiculous combos with the constant duplicates. However, the same cards usually needed by Rogue (Auctioneer, etc.) are more essential than the previous two.
Garrosh, Thrall, Rexxar(tied): All worth playing, but mostly gimmicks. Garrosh can clear boards pretty hard or finish in aggro, but his new hero power is only selectively useful. Similarly, Thrall is RNG-limited and I find the 1 mana cost of Evolve generally more useful and the hero power often underwhelming. I've not lost to a single Rexxar deck I've faced because the high costs of the created creatures runs contrary to how Hunter plays (i.e. control Hunter still sucks) and there's so much single-target removal right now that they're easily ignored.
Uther: Is a joke for precisely the reasons that Jeb points out.
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Hearthstone Players! 11 Oct 2017 00:14 #255487

My son and I looked over the Rares in Standard and cooked up a small Buyer's Guide for newer players. These are the Rares you really want to have. Mostly in 2x, with some exceptions (e.g., you probably don't need 2x Siphon Soul).
Druid
Jade Idol
Nourish
Hunter
Eaglehorn Bow
Savannah Highmane
Mage
Blizzard (1x)
Paladin
Equality
Priest
Auchenai Soulpriest
Rogue
SI:7 Agent
Shaman
Evolve
Devolve (1x)
Jade Claws
Maelstrom Portal
Feral Spirit (1x)
Lightning Storm
Mana Tide Totem
Thing from Below
Warlock
Doomguard
Siphon Soul (1x)
Warrior
Armorsmith
Frothing Berserker
Neutral
Wild Pyromancer
Stonehill Defender
Defender of Argus
Gadgetzan Auctioneer
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