Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me
Talk about collectible card and miniature games here.

TOPIC: Hearthstone Players!

Hearthstone Players! 12 Jan 2018 04:10 #260762

Jackwraith wrote:
I like it, but I lack Zola, Elise, and Herald Volazj. Who the fuck keeps Herald Volazj for the past year-and-a-half?

Me. I still run it in control priest, because swapping health with deathlords and dirty rats is fun.
  • MattDP
  • MattDP's Avatar
  • NOW ONLINE
  • Shiny Balls
  • Posts: 2639
  • Thank you received: 756
Oftentimes defeat is splendid, victory may still be shame;
Luck is good, the prize is pleasant but the glory's in the game!
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Hearthstone Players! 12 Jan 2018 09:06 #260765

You're thinking Vol'jin, the troll, not Volazj, the demon. I would totally play Vol'jin if he were still in Standard. Volazj is the one who creates 1/1 copies of each of your other minions. That would see some use in the current meta for Radiant Elementals or maybe Grand Archivists if you wanted to cast multiple big spells in the same turn, but Priest minions are largely Battlecry driven and don't have a ton of passive effects. You could always have multiple Clerics, but if you're a smart Priest player, you never go full Cleric. Too much chance of overdrawing or hitting fatigue too fast. Plus, with the prevalence of aggro Paladin, Voidwalkers, and tempo Rogue's weenies, there are so many board clears in regular play that having 1/1s of your other guys would last about a turn. I've never quite understood what their intent was for the card, but it's never manifested and he's going to rotate to Wild without ever seeing regular play (and probably won't there, either.)
  • Jackwraith
  • Jackwraith's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Ninja
  • Posts: 1435
  • Thank you received: 1025
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: MattDP

Hearthstone Players! 12 Jan 2018 10:20 #260776

Herald Volazj interacts with the Quest, which just needs Summons. I think that was the game plan. Was it in the same set as Tortollan Shellraiser The 2.6? Because that's the best interaction, by far. Even then it was kind of weak. Priests, for the most part, can't count on stuff sticking around, because the opponent knows the Healing power makes anything that sticks super obnoxious. so the chances that you can have a decent 3 dude board to Volazj are really low.

Mostly it's used in memes, like copying Malygos for +10 Spell Damage and big Mind Blasts and junk like that.
  • jeb
  • jeb's Avatar
  • NOW ONLINE
  • D12
  • Posts: 5359
  • Thank you received: 2168
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Hearthstone Players! 12 Jan 2018 10:47 #260779

Vol'jin is a great card and it's one of two - the other being Injured Blademaster - that comes to mind when one considers which cards to permanently add to the Priest core set. As far as power level of the class legendaries goes, I'd put it somewhere between Grommash and Tirion and I think you could easily sub Velen out for him without breaking the game.

Also, I was wrong about Rin. I thought she was a meme card but it's shocking how often you can summon Azari. She's not top tier but at least decks that support her are relatively consistent and make sense. It's not like you're trying to make chicken salad out of the chicken shit that is Shaman basic totems. I think that's what people want from Team 5 when it comes to design. I don't think anyone was expecting Freeze Shaman to be meta-defining and I would have tried to play a tier three Freeze Shaman (thanks, Moorabi) if it had a few decent cards to support it. That's why I'm so high on Spell/Recruit Hunter right now and I'm hoping they learn from it and quit half-assing new archetypes.

Edit: You could change Vol'jin's battlecry to "Swap health with an enemy minion" if you're worried about Obsidian Statue or other interactions being too powerful.
Last Edit: 12 Jan 2018 10:54 by SebastianBludd.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: jeb

Hearthstone Players! 12 Jan 2018 17:51 #260808

Volazj was Whispers. Shellraiser was Un'Goro, so she was definitely intended to go with the Quest. He may have been as well and they might have just stuck him in as the "Priest legendary" in Whispers because another card didn't work out and they thought they'd see how he was played before the real reason for his inclusion became apparent in the next set. They've done that before. But he didn't work out, either.

If they included Vol'jin in the Priest base set... I'll be in my bunk. I think everyone was wrong about Rin. Some site did a poll before Kobolds was released and she was rated the third-worst card in the set. Now, of course, she's a thing because the meta slowed down even more than it had with Un'Goro. I totally agree with your design speculation. I would also have played Freeze Shaman if most of the cards they included weren't such utter trash. Brrloc is one of the best Murlocs ever and Voodoo Hexxer is a solid Arena card, but Cryostasis is the definition of a meme epic card. You can either make one of your minions an utter target and useless for a turn or you can take three more damage to the face to eliminate an enemy minion with your 3-cost 1/3 weapon. Avalanche is a perfect example of a card waiting for the perfect situation. If your opponent isn't smart enough to avoid placement that sets up cards like Betrayal, you can wipe out a couple weenies while... waiting a turn to draw Hex so you can really get rid of that Arcane Giant you wanted to remove...? Maybe you're playing that because it's turn 10 and you've just played Moorabi for the one turn he's going to live so you can get your own Arcane Giant? Awesome play, yo. If he'd been a 5/5, maybe- MAYBE -you could justify his slot in a freeze deck, but only maybe. JFC, Grumble is a 7/7 for the same cost and he has a ton more utility than Moorabi does. He's certainly no slower, even while he bounces your whole board.

And, of course, the worst thing is that after spending 5 of Shaman's 10 slots on those awful cards and two more on Drakkari Defender and Snowfall Giant (Everyone loves Overload! The two or three Overload decks I've seen for the spellstone don't even use those two cards...), they didn't even follow up in Kobolds. No freeze cards whatsoever. That has to be their biggest design fail in quite some time.
  • Jackwraith
  • Jackwraith's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Ninja
  • Posts: 1435
  • Thank you received: 1025
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: jeb

Hearthstone Players! 12 Jan 2018 21:31 #260815

Just to continue the rant (because that's, like, what I do here in this shithole for stable geniuses. What? That's another rant? Sorry.), let's look at Shaman for the last two sets:

Knights: Brrloc, Ice Fishing, Drakkari Defender, Ice Breaker, Avalanche, Voodoo Hexxer, Cryostasis, Snowfury Giant, Thrall Deathseer, Moorabi

Brrloc, as noted, is one of the best Murlocs ever made, largely because Murlocs are a multiplicative tribe and Brrloc often ensures that key Murlocs (Warleader) will be preserved to multiply others. Ice Fishing is an enabler for Murlocs and I use two in my Frog deck that I no longer try to play on ladder because Murlocs outside of Paladin kinda suck, except for the memes. Defender, Ice Breaker, Avalanche, Cryostasis, Snowfury, and Moorabi are complete ass as detailed earlier. You may be able to make an argument for Avalanche at some point in the future if they find a way to synergize with other cards. I play one Defender in my Guild Recruiter deck because Recruiter grabs it without its unplayable drawback and/or there's occasionally a way to survive into the later turns of a game you'll still lose, but which will let you fulfill more steps of a quest you're trying to finish. Until they reprint Tunnel Trogg, Snowfury will never be good. Moorabi is horrible even if its stats weren't already brutal. It currently stands as the worst of the trash legendaries that have emerged in the last two sets. Deathseer is a staple in Evolve decks. Yay?

Kobolds: Crushing Hand, Kobold Hermit, Healing Rain, Murmuring Elemental, Primal Talismans, Lesser Sapphire Spellstone, Unstable Evolution, Windshear Stormcaller, Grumble Worldshaker, The Runespear

Crushing Hand is usable only in an Overload deck and who would play that? (Well, Zalae did in an HCT event recently and bombed out in the first round. Surprised?) Why wouldn't you just play Hex if you want something gone and you'll still have 5 mana next turn? Playing Hand is going to cost you 5 mana, regardless. Hermit is possibly playable if Totem decks are ever a thing. Outlook here is grim. Healing Rain is a great control Shaman card. Murmuring Elemental is solid for Elemental decks, which are still not viable in either Shaman or Mage. Primal Talismans is fucking awful even in Totem decks. Sapphire is the worst of all of the Spellstones, mostly because it requires you to use the worst mechanic in the game.

Tangent: The worst thing about Sapphire Spellstone is its cost. What it means is that, even if you get it charged up, you'll often be in a situation in which you can't use it even on the turn you activate it. What's the best possible minion to use in a deck with Sapphire? Earth Elemental, of course. EE costs 5. Sapphire costs 7. So, EE activates Spellstone by itself... but their combined cost is 12, which means you'll have to cast EE and then do something else, because you can't use your Spellstone on the same turn unless you happen to have two Coins in hand. So just wait until your opponent plays Hoarding Dragon, Timmy! Then you're golden! So your EE somehow survives until the next turn, but he's Overloaded you for three. Which means you STILL can't play Sapphire Spellstone unless it's turn 10 or beyond! But then that means the ONLY thing you can do on this turn 10 or beyond is play your Spellstone. Hey, it's giving you two more EEs, right? They, of course, will only have the 2 or 3 life that your original EE has left (Remember, you can't heal them in any way because the only thing you can do this turn is play the Spellstone.), which means that a simple Hellfire will likely erase all of them. Unreal.

Unstable Evolution, in complete contrast to all of this shit, is a great spell and enables not just Evolve decks, but also cards like Arcane Giant. The latter will be rotating out of Standard in a couple months. Have fun! Windshear Stormcaller doesn't really have that name. Its actual name is Meme Epic and will be referred to as such from this day forth. I played one once. Just once. The Al'Akir it got for "free" couldn't even get through the Arena-level taunt that my opponent (Jeb!) had played. In contrast, I spent 1 mana for an Unstable Evolution to change a Corridor Creeper into Al'Akir the other day and it did some work. This is, again, in complete contrast to spending 5 for a vanilla 5/5 and trying to keep all 4 vanilla totems on the board. Grumble is overstatted, has an interesting effect, and would be a great card in any deck but Elementals, which are still too slow and too dependent on what you played last turn to be usable. They're a combo deck that's trying to be a midrange deck. Fail. He still might see play in other decks that have a ton of Battlecries, but it's unfortunate that his intended deck simply won't work on the ladder. The Runespear is the worst of the non-playable weapons. Brode's justification for it was: "Shaman doesn't have a lot of targeted spells!"; suggesting that spending 8 on a 3/3 weapon would mean it's OK that damaging your face 3 times and hoping for 3 purely RNG effects to go in your favor is somehow worth 1600 dust. Ell Oh Ell?

Shaman since August 2017, ladies and gentlemen.
  • Jackwraith
  • Jackwraith's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Ninja
  • Posts: 1435
  • Thank you received: 1025
Last Edit: 13 Jan 2018 00:03 by Jackwraith.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: jeb

Hearthstone Players! 14 Jan 2018 20:43 #260946

Jackwraith wrote:
Shaman since August 2017, ladies and gentlemen.
I think Shaman since August 2017 can be laid upon the altar Shaman since August 2015 when Tuskarr Totemic and Totem Golem came out and fucked everyone to death with their awesomeness. Coupled with Tunnel Trogg in November of that year and Shaman was the #1 Hero and nothing was close. They nerfed Totemic, Rockbiter, and Abusive Sergeant in one go to try and tame things in Sept 2016. They've been trying to handle that ever since. We finally see Hunter emerge from the nerf shadow laid on it in the wake of Undertaker/Face after Naxx came out. Shaman will come back to life in another couple of sets I would gather.
  • jeb
  • jeb's Avatar
  • NOW ONLINE
  • D12
  • Posts: 5359
  • Thank you received: 2168
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Hearthstone Players! 14 Jan 2018 23:51 #260952

I remember when Tuskarr Totemic was previewed. "THREE MANA FOR A 3/2?!!!" Shaman was awful then (basically zero presence in Ranked and was often the only class left out of pro events) and people (including me) couldn't believe how underpowered the card seemed. That was a general feeling about all of TGT in comparison to GVG and the base sets but, even so, this seemed bad because people looked at the card and the only thing they thought of was basic totems. On turn 3, a vanilla 3/2 and a basic totem meant jack-all in the face of what was coming from your opponent on his next turn.

But then people started playing it and summoning Flametongues and Mana Tides and what became drawing the nuts: Totem Golem. Three mana for a 3/2 and a 3/4? OK. So, yeah, Shaman promptly went out of control. I think they've learned a lot since then, but they still don't seem to think that an RNG hero power is a problem. Or that it's the only power in the game that can be capped in use. Unless they release a bunch of new totems that do pretty amazing shit, their totem decks will be as successful as Overload decks.

And I'm fine with class rotation. Priest is king right now after suffering at the bottom for pretty much the entirety of the game, except the point in the beta when SWD got added and Mind Control still cost 8. But what I don't want is for some classes to be king and others to be either useless or restricted to one deck type, which is the case for Shaman at the moment. As I was ranting about earlier, if they had created decent Frozen cards, there would at least be a deck that could feasibly be played instead of Evolve. Since Evolve is ruled by RNG, no one plays Shaman right now, except those of us puttering around with unworkable ideas in the nether reaches. I don't mind some classes being down while others are up. I just don't want one or two classes to simply not be competitive, which is the case for Shaman right now.
  • Jackwraith
  • Jackwraith's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Ninja
  • Posts: 1435
  • Thank you received: 1025
Last Edit: 14 Jan 2018 23:53 by Jackwraith.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
Moderators: Jackwraith, Mad Dog, wadenels
Time to create page: 0.259 seconds