Hearthstone Players!

Yeah, Mysterious Challenger is pretty sick. I think they did a great job with that card. Paladin secrets are kind of crummy, and if you want maximal value on that Challenger you need to pack your deck with crap. Solid work there. Dr. Boom, in contrast, takes nothing away from a deck--it just makes good decks better assuming they need something at 7+ mana. But Mysterious Challenger needs some thought to make work, and you get "punished" as a deckbuilder for using it. Compare to Hobgoblin.

I have been using Erasmus B. Dragon to plow up the leaderboard. I am probably winning 75% of games. When I lose, it's usually something pretty sick. I had a game against Zoo, let's see if I recall...
Zoo1: Flame Imp.
Me1: Northshire Cleric, coin, Power Word Shield.
Zoo2: Acidic Swamp Ooze, hit for 3.
Me2: Poke the Imp (thinking ahead to disrupt demon synergy), heal for card.
Zoo3: Knife Juggler. some little thing, juggle the Cleric, kill cleric with Imp (?), hit for 3.
Me3: Dark Cultist.
Zoo4: Implosion Cultist for 4, Juggle me 4 times, swing for 6.
GG. I had a Holy Nova in hand and all, but there's 11 damage on the board and I am at 14. Shoulda kept that coin to get the early Nova I guess. Or, you know, not let them roll a 4 on Implosion with a Juggler out. Either one.

Played against a Tempo Mage (I think) and they just don't have staying power in the mid-game. I was disrupting them constantly with 3/7 and 2/4 Taunts, getting some licks in with Azure Drakes. By the time they got to cast their big 7/7 I was bringing lethal over with Ysera Awakens. Against all these Paladins I just sit on Lightbomb until it bombs them with light.

//Tavern Brawl update!
It's ramp for all. Build your own deck, but mana ramps 1 --> 3 --> 5 --> &c. I played a close relative of my Resuwrecked build here (I don't have Paletress). Matched up against a token Paladin, using Bolvar! He was at 28 on turn 6 when I hit him with
2x Kel'Thuzad
2x Loatheb
2x Sen'jin Shieldmasta
for the win.

I imagine Druid decks will be everywhere after a day or so. They are so deep on good late-game minions. If you can't hang with those get in this one early to get your pack.

Random thoughts a week into TGT from a guy who makes it to rank 14 every month but can't seem to break through to the next level:

Dr. Boom is still the best card in the game. There's no better 7 drop, and there's no 8/9/10 drop that is as good when factoring in the increased cost. I think if Dr. Boom were increased to 8 mana I'd still play him.

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That said, Varian Wrynn is the most powerful card irrespective of cost. If you last long enough to get to 10 mana I find it hard to foresee a situation where you drop him and don't win.

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Alexstrasza is the best 9 drop, but probably a weaker legendary than any other on this list
Ragnoros is the best 8 drop
Sylvanis or Thaurssian is the best 6
Loatheb is the best 5

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And the best set, bang for your buck, is still Naxxramas. Loatheb, Sludge Belcher, Death's Bite, Nerubian Egg, Undertaker (even nerfed), Haunted Creeper, Mad Scientist, Unstable Ghoul, all excellent cards. Even the bulk of the second tier cards are either situationally useful or just flat out fun to build strategies around, even if they're not always competitive. I'm talking about things like Shade of Naxxramas, Kel'Thuzad, Echoing Ooze, Baron Rivendare, Webspinner, Duplicate.

When I got Naxxramas I was just getting into hearthstone and I didn't get just how good the set was. Now, looking back at exactly what was in there? I'm blown away.

So if you want to get the most out of Hearthstone the fastest, get Nax, get the first wing of Blackrock so you can get Emperor T, and on your way to getting enough dust for Doom and Rag you should have every common and rare you need, and you'll be competitive with just about anyone.

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Savage Combatant is an awesome card. It's a 5/4 4 drop Beast for Druid with "inspire: give your hero +2 attack." Obviously board position will dictate exactly how useful he is, but right now he's my favorite Druid 4 drop and there's very few Druid decks he doesn't fit in.

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Justicar Trueheart probably isn't that great of a card, overall, but I just love her (him?) It was the first thing I spent dust on after TGT. If I'm building a deck for fun, it's going in every time.

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I can't figure out why Dreadscale exists, it's REALLY not a hunter card, the only Hunter cards it really syncs with are Webspinner (but not really) and Gaz'Rilla, and as far as neutrals there's only a handful (Patron, a couple enrage cards.) I wonder if they're setting something up for the next expansion, because it's odd the Hunter would get two legendaries and this would be one of them.

Stonecutter wrote: I can't figure out why Dreadscale exists, it's REALLY not a hunter card, the only Hunter cards it really syncs with are Webspinner (but not really) and Gaz'Rilla, and as far as neutrals there's only a handful (Patron, a couple enrage cards.) I wonder if they're setting something up for the next expansion, because it's odd the Hunter would get two legendaries and this would be one of them.

I'm sure there's some lore here from WoW that matters, but in Hearthstone, Dreadscale and Acidmaw go together for the 10 mana board clear. Acidmaw kills anything other than itself that's damaged and Dreadscale damages everything but itself, so you kill everything on the board except those two, and they cost 7 + 3.

I agree with the balance of your post, too. Ragnaros is huge and amazing, but I went for Sylvanas first when crafting (after Dr. Boom). And when I had enough dust for another Legendary, I went with Ysera. I think a lot comes down to what kind of player you are. I play a little faster, perhaps, so I am reluctant to wait for Rag to come along and mop up. (Ysera provides synergy all game with "if you hold a dragon" cards).

I think Varian is great, but he might get you garbage. E.g., Kripp played him and got a War Axe, a Death's Bite, and Big Game Hunter. I think the most powerful effect in the game might be Kel-Thuzad. It can make the game so lopsided.

//Tavern Brawl stuff
Here's some thoughts on this week's Brawl--where everyone ramps. I'll list heroes in terms of strength. Personal opinion, mind you.

1. Druid -- Already built to exploit the ramp. If you have the big epics and Legendaries, a combo Druid is probably the best deck that can be built. Tons of burst from the combo (Force of Nature + Savage Roar), and you can tie up the board with massive Taunts until works out (Ancient of War, Ironbark Protector, Cenarius).
2. Rogue -- Miracle Rogue works in any format with quick mana. It used to be that plain old Hearthstone was quick mana because the spells they exploited cost less. See why Blizzard nerfed Gadgetzan Auctioneer in this week's Brawl. Mix in Cutpurse to see if you can score some extra coins!
3. Warrior -- Do you have Varian Wrynn? Then you'll probably "wrynn" this week's Brawl! HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHA
4. Priest -- Some of the best top-end spells in the game (Mind Control! Holy Fire!) and access to Resurrect, which gets you ahead on the board when you are both playing ridiculous creatures. Use your early turns to Thoughtsteal and Mind Vision their cool stuff for extra fun times. Or maybe Convert that cool minion to try it out for yourself.
5. Warlock -- Not sure what works here either. Handlock is still Handlock. It's tough to punch through Taunted 9/9 Mountain Giants while they keep pooping out Antique Healbots.
6. Shaman -- Best removal for ridiculous fatties (Hex). Janky late-game could cost you. If you have played Shaman with any regularity I think you can make this Brawl shine. Folks that dabble will eat shit.
7. Mage -- Just burn their face off. Spell damage, spells. Pyroblast, yo.
8. Hunter -- Tough week for Hunter. You can try to just 1,3,5,7 curve and smorc folks down--could happen. You could try getting controlly and break out the Acidmaw shenanigans with Unleah the Hounds and/or Dreadscale. Break out a nutty Gahzrilla/Mad Bomber thing?
9. Paladin -- Paladin might be the worst off--it's top end stuff is pretty good (Tirion, Lay on Hands) but removal depends on pokes for the most part, barring Equality. Pokes don't work when turn 3 Sludge Belcher is an easy play.

jeb wrote: Druid -- Already built to exploit the ramp. If you have the big epics and Legendaries, a combo Druid is probably the best deck that can be built. Tons of burst from the combo (Force of Nature + Savage Roar), and you can tie up the board with massive Taunts until works out (Ancient of War, Ironbark Protector, Cenarius).

Don't forget Druid of the Fang for a beast deck. I put one together first thing and I managed to pull off Turn 2 Emperor Cobra -> Turn 3 7/7 Druid of the Fang which is ridiculous on Turn 3, even for this Brawl. My opponent burned 2 cards to get rid of the DotF and he never even got remotely close to catching back up.

I'm still tinkering with my Paladin deck, especially after getting continually wrecked by damn Snowchuggers from mech Mages. I just swapped in a couple Zombie Chows in place of my Avenges in hopes of slowing those down, though if a mech Mage curves out perfectly and I curve out anything but, I'm in hot water anyway.

I'm actually having a lot of fun with the control mech Hunter deck I made for a daily quest. I don't have a Savannah Highmane so a beast deck is out and I pretend that face Hunter doesn't exist, so I went with mech since I have a Metaltooth Leaper and, surprisingly, it hasn't fared too badly. I don't usually use Spectral Knights or Kel'Thuzad but I added those because I thought they'd come in useful (spoiler alert: they're good). I even managed to beat a Flamewaker/Archmage Antonidas deck (with 1 HP remaining). My favorite moment was when he played AA and I Hunter's Marked him and killed him with a shielded Annoy-o-tron.

People should stop trying to make Priest happen in this Brawl.

I have five wins at the moment. Two from Shaman, three from Druid (questing). All of them were against Priests. I probably have five+ losses from trying to get the Shaman right.

I just went 3-0 against all Priests to pick up a Druid quest I thought I might struggle with. They kept doing Thoughtsteals and that sort of thing, but the fat Druid drops were just hammering them and the tempo never let them get back in it.

A few choice plays: Dark Wispers, for 5 1/1 wisps on an otherwise empty board. Priest responds with a Thoughtstolen 8/8 tree. Cenarius comes out, turns all those Wisps into 3/3s, they eat the tree and do 6 damage to the face.

Next game, bring out an Owl out to silence his Lorewalker Cho, then use that to boost a Druid of the Fang. Two turns later, I draw the other Druid of the Fang, and play it boosted off the other, because the 7/7 form is a Beast, with enough to play a Swipe left over. Woop.

One I thought I was going to lose, when I dropped Cenarius with the two taunters, only to have him Mind controlled away and the taunters killed. Next turn I put out an 8/8 tree, to which my opponent drops Kel-Thuzad and suicides Cenarius into my tree to lower its health. Ha-ha, I have a Kel-Thuzad too, and now my hurt tree wipes his Kel-Thuzad out and resurrects at 8/8. Back and forth a bit more, with him upgraded to +4 heal and holding at 30 health, me with 4 health + 2 armor. I almost lose Kel-Thuzad to a 4-point "heal" with an Auchenai out, but I Starfire that bastard away. Shortly after that, he realizes getting through that tree and the other stuff I'm playing is getting to be really hard, and we're both pretty card-poor. Not every day you see a 30-health Priest concede to a 4-health druid.

This is the deck I was using, which I threw together in a few minutes tonight:

2x Naturalize
1x Ironbeak Owl
2x Healing Touch
1x Mark of Nature
2x Savage Roar
1x Emperor Cobra
2x Swipe
2x Savage Combatant
2x Starfall
2x Druid of the Claw
2x Druid of the Fang
1x Dark Wispers
Lx Maexxna
2x Ancient of War
Lx Booooooooooooooooom
1x Knight of the Wild
2x Ironbark Protector
Lx Kel-Thuzad
Lx Cenarius
1x Sea Giant

I'm missing a lot of the epics (like Ancient of Lore and Force of Nature especially), but I'm lucky enough to have Cenarius. Oddly, I'm still missing some key Druid rares (like Keeper and Tender). No Mulch or Recycle either.

Aw, now I have to Tavern Brawl challenge you. This is what I played to 3-1 (loss to a Token Pally when I had shy Taunts)... from memory here...
2@ Holy Smite
2@ Power Word: Shield
2@ Resurrect
1@ Shadow Word: Pain
2@ Dark Cultist
2@ Shadow Word: Death
2@ Arcane Nullifier X-21
2@ Sen'jin Shieldmasta
1@ Faceless Manipulator
2@ Holy Nova
L@ Loatheb
1@ Argent Commander
L@ Emperor Thaurissan
2@ Holy Fire
1@ Lightbomb
L@ Sunwalker
L@ Sylvanas Windrunner
L@ Chillmaw
L@ Kel'Thuzad
L@ Ysera
1@ Mind Control

Nice. Looks like an improvement over whatever I was facing. I did see a Ysera at some point, but I had enough stuff on the board to beat it down fast.

Do you have enough Dragons in there to make Chillmaw really work as a clear, or is it going to be just a big Taunt? Also, no Silence? I feel like only bringing the one Owl was a mistake looking back at that deck.

Hit me up if you see me online!

I don't need to Silence nothing man! I see your shit and I take your shit!

Definitely not enough dragons to count on Chillmaw's deathrattle, but the opponent doesn't know that. (oh shit)

Hello all,
Playing an almost pure Demonlock deck this morning.
I was able to pull off a Dreadsteed/Baron Rivendare combo for several turns.
Ended up with 6 Dreadsteeds with one buffed to 6/6.
The "terrible death whinnys" were music to my ears.

Gotta be careful to kill Baron in there somewhere or you can't play more stuff. Sucks to get the combo and then just ping away because there's no room for fatties or juggler.

Have Rogue Win 3x quest and might throw it back. Rogue is no fun for me right now. I'll try to make a Mill Rogue and eat it for a while I guess, but it's draining.

Yeah, the downside of these class-specific quests that are worth 10 more gold is the fact that you'll find yourself playing classes you don't really like. I don't like Priest or Warrior (in fact I constructed my first Warrior deck in months last night for a quest), so the only way I can find it palatable is to include one or two cards I like rather than one of the same old archetypes. So my Warrior deck has Blingtron, my Priest deck has Paletress, and my Rogue deck has 2x Burgle.

Old archetypes seems to be a growing sentiment over the past few days. I mean, there's some interesting and genuinely fun stuff in TGT. Don't get me wrong. I like a lot of it. But as far as competitive decks go, other than Dr. 6 (Mysterious Challenger) there really hasn't been much that impresses. For example, as powerful as the new Shaman cards like Golem and Valiant are, in the end, the class is still utterly hamstrung by the RNG of the hero power. If you're under pressure with any other class, you know what you're going to get for that two mana and it's the variability of the power that restrains not only it (Healing Stream totem used to heal the Shaman, too) but the class cards. You may end up with the Wrath of Air totem that you needed to boost that Lightning Bolt for 4 and close out a game. Or you may end up with a useless 1/1 (or 3/1 if you happen to have Valiant in play.) The lack of consistency just kills Shaman decks and with the prevalence of AoE removal because of Dirty Secrets (WOW reference) and other Paladin decks, in addition to Patron, Face, etc., etc., toughness 2 totems aren't that useful, no matter how much attack power they have. I actually tried putting two Totemic Might in my deck just to work around that problem (you know, one of the half dozen or so class cards that no one would ever play unless desperate (kinda like Poisoned Blade, for a TGT reference.)) Still not workable.

And that seems to be the impact of a lot of the set. The deck I'm playing most regularly right now is a Priest deck that uses a grand total of 3 TGT cards: 2 Flash Heal and a Holy Champion. The Champion was an Eydis Darkbane for a while but, again, the RNG of her ability just makes her unviable. I think I cast PWS and/or Velen's on her a dozen times. Every, single time she hit the opposing player, even with 3 or more targets on the board. It's just more useful to me to have a creature with 1 more toughness who becomes an increasing threat. Again and again, I'm running into people playing bog standard decks that contain few, if any, TGT cards. They're still just as effective as they ever were (Mech Mage, Control Warrior, Ramp Druid, etc.) which is kind of disappointing, since the meta is potentially full of cool ideas like Dreadsteed, but those cards just aren't competitive in an environment that was supposed to be slower but is still dominated by aggro, which now has an even huger presence in the secret Paladin model. You'd like to think that Joust and Inspire would encourage slower play, but they're too slow themselves in many cases and in the case of the former, again subject to RNG. It's really unfortunate, IMO.

We're having pretty different experiences so far. I am so glad to not have seen really any Zoo or Patron over the last few days, honestly. I keep hearing that these are the best, and everyone should use them but they are nowhere! There are TONS of Paladins, oh my god. Mysterious Challenger is a pain in the ass, to be sure, but that Murloc Knight is in every build. I am seeing these TGT cards routinely on the ladder so far:

• Druid: Living Roots, Darnassas Aspirant
• Hunter: King's Elekk, Ram Wrangler, Argent Horserider
• Paladin: Murloc Knight, Competitive Spirit, Mysterious Challenger, Silver Hand Regent
• Priest: Wyrmrest Agent, Twilight Guardian, Chillmaw
• Shaman: Tuskarr Totemic, Thunder Bluff Valiant
• Warrior: Justicar Trueheart, Varian Wrynn, Bash
• Mage: Effigy
• Rogue: ..?
• Warlock: Dreadsteed

Only Rogue seems dodgy. Folks are still getting cards and dabbling. Tweak a deck instead of invent a deck is the order of the day. Secrets Paladin and Totem Shaman are the first legit new archetypes from TGT, but Dragon Priest and Midrange Hunter got some huge weapons to make them very strong. It seems hard to find a Priest now that's not Dragon Priest. Jackwraith has the other build, it seems, Control Priest that uses Velen for a finisher, right?

I haven't seen Mech Mage at all. Well, once, but I curved out sick and obliterated them. I understood why I didn't see them after that game.

I think one of the coolest things about TGT is that it resurrects some cards. I have seen Secretkeeper, Flare, maindeck Spellbreaker--I ran a Hungry Crab on purpose in my Paladin deck. Vitality Totem!! These are cards people are putting in actual decks--I mean, that's crazy.

I think there are some ideas out there, percolating, that will come to the fore. Secrets Paladin is fundamentally flawed as a deck, I think. It has to run so many shitty cards to work. Folks will find the right answer soon. I think there's a couple of Priest builds out there that could form with tuning. I think a real Control Hunter could happen. I think something like Miracle Rogue is close if we can quell the fast stuff (irony). I think folks should spend more time with Aggro Druid. I think a Control Shaman is build is due. There's stuff right at the edge of becoming real. So far, only Dragon Priest has fully bloomed, but other stuff is pending.

Not using Velen. My curve stops at 5 with Loatheb. It's kind of a Tempo Priest, I guess. You're right in that Dragon Priest is now a reality with TGT. Forgot about that. And I realize that those cards are being played and I see many of them. But other than Secret Paladin, none of them are essential. You can still play and do well with the same stuff as before, which means that TGT cards are having less of an impact than I'd hoped. Tuskarr Totemic is the most glaring example. The RNG on that guy... I can almost guarantee you that he'll be dropped from any serious Shaman lists by the end of the month. Yes, sometimes you get the Golem. But a lot of time you get something that makes it feel like you overpaid for a 3/2. He dies. Then the totem dies. And you're left with nothing on turn 4 and have to start over. So you play a card with actual benefit, like Shredder...

I've been arguing with a friend who's a hardcore Control Warr player. He's claiming that Challenger is OP. I keep telling him that there are simple answers to a lot of what that deck does that are already fully prevalent. The Boar tech is just one of them. The fact that Warrior doesn't have most of those answers is just a meta change. In other words, if all he's facing is Secret Paladin, he should probably switch decks until they thin out.

I don't think Control Hunter is viable. I tried for a while and Hunter removal is just too inefficient or conditional (Multi-shot, Deadly Shot.) Plus, people were expecting Lock and Load to be the godsend because it "solved" the main problem of the deck: a lack of draw. Problem is, it doesn't draw cards from YOUR deck. It draws random Hunter cards, which may be worthless. You're paying two mana for nothing. If you have no other spells, the card is useless. If you do have spells, then you're often tossing them off in an inefficient manner in order to draw random Hunter cards which may be other crap like Call Pet. So, you're paying 2 mana for the privilege of drawing other cards which may or may not work with your deck and which cost more mana. Arcane Intellect is two cards for 3 mana. The awful Ancestral Knowledge is two cards for 4 mana. Lock and Load is 0 cards for 2 mana then 1 card per however much mana the spells in your hand cost and those cards aren't the ones you've added to your deck, but might be Core Rager or Timber Wolf. The main thing control decks need is control of their hand. L&L doesn't help with that and Hunter doesn't have good options, otherwise.

So, anyway, speaking of Control Hunter decks and my current Priest build, I had an interesting game yesterday based on the first play. (I think I got two games in with Priest before I was working on a Paladin quest, playing Dirty Secrets (don't judge me.)) The screen shows Hunter and I immediately assume Face, so I keep a hand with Cleric, Smite, and Circle, assuming that I can shut down a lot of early stuff. I drop Cleric, because most Hunters can't kill it for a couple turns even if they want to and then I can turn into the drawing machine. He responds with Coin, Owl. I busted out laughing, because there are two utterly disparate ways of looking at that. Against almost any other class, you'd say that was a bad play because I just got him to drop 1.5 cards (Coin counts as half) for my 1 and I'm going to kill the Owl with what I have in play, so it's going to be a two-fer, regardless. It accomplishes something important (denying me the draw engine) but it also puts him on the back foot unless he has something big enough to ignore and/or kill the Cleric on turn 2 or 3. If he's Face, he really doesn't. But if he's Face, he probably wouldn't be running Owl in the first place and definitely wouldn't use it on the Cleric, saving it for a Sludge Belcher when he's trying to get the kill. So, I know he's Midrange or Control and he's just used a powerful tool on something that he could have eliminated with a Quick Shot if he has one or just ignored while he waited until he had something big enough that wouldn't allow me to heal it. Either way, he's a slower deck that has just dropped to 3 cards on turn 1. But it turns out that what he was really doing was denying the draw because he wanted to start with a Webspinner, thus highlighting the problem with Hunter cards like that one and Lock and Load.

Webspinner seems efficient because it gives you something for dying and, presumably, taking out an aggro deck's Leper Gnome or something similar. But it's really not because it's superfluous. It's a 1/1. You can't kill the Juggler with a 1/1. You'll need another card. You can't kill Chow or Warper with a 1/1 and you shouldn't even try. What you're hoping is that said 1/1 takes down an early play or contributes in some fashion and then dies and hands you a Kodo or a Savannah or even a Gahz, if not simply an Ironfur, and then you're ahead of the game. But what people often end up with is a Parrot or a Chicken. A 1/1 for another 1/1. People play Webspinner to get King Krush, but in that respect it's the converse of the way pro poker players often examine their history. They ignore all the times they took down a huge pot because they slow played someone on the nuts or a pair of cowboys. But they ALWAYS remember the bad beats when they had those cowboys but someone flopped a straight after going in with rags. Webspinner players forget all the TImber Wolves or Owls or Young Dragonhawks, but they remember that Mukla or that Malorne and so they think they're sure to roll that well again. RNGesus loves you. Sure, he does...

I kill the Owl, of course, and then I put down a Shadowboxer, figuring that he's unlikely to kill the 1/1 Cleric (he's a Hunter) and I can heal it at my leisure (Yes, that's a Shadowboxer; another random pinging guy, but who pings a lot more often than Eydis and without needing a specific card play. He also fits the curve.) We go along for a couple more turns with me attacking and him shooting me. In the interim, I drop Blademaster and Circle it and then PWS it and there's no way he's keeping anything on the board short of a Savannah. He hits 4 mana and Multi-shots me, taking out the Cleric and the Boxer (RNGesus hates me; the last half dozen games against a Mage have been where Flamecannon always- ALWAYS -hits the biggest minion out of three targets.) I continue to work with the Blademaster, since I have a hand of Pyromancer, Flash Heal, Smite, and some other inconsequential stuff. He follows up with a Deadly Shot. (Incidentally, he got a Parrot from the Webspinner.)

I get the other Blademaster down and Velen's it. He drops Savannah, so I Silence and Death it, activate his Explosive trap, clear something, drop the Cleric, heal to nullify his Eaglehorn, etc. and just grind him down. A Light of the Naaru brings out a Warden who eventually grows to ridiculous heights and gets the kill. What's the point of this story? I think it's that I've balanced my deck well enough to deal with aggro (which is what I was expecting and why I kept the hand) or midrange/control (which is what I encountered and shut down), largely because other people are enamored of RNG cards that largely don't work in the way that they're hoping. Thus, the failure of Shaman.