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Trashfest 2008 background

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23 Jan 2008 21:09 #1327 by KingPut
How did Trashfest get start?

Last August I attended WBC and ended up playing a bunch of great Trash with my sister Ubarose and my brother in-law Al. You can read about the experience in Ubarose’s post “Fear and Loathing in Lancaster.” That same weekend I met Malloc and played Ti3 for the first time. For me playing Ti3 for the first time was kind of like how the Beatles felt doing acid for the first time. One day I was playing bubblegum pop Euro games and the next day I was playing freak’n great Ameritrash games. The next week I went to one of my regular GCOM game nights and two of the guys who run Euroquest asked me to GM Caylus at Euroquest. I started to think why couldn’t we have an Ameritrash convention similar to Euroquest. There’s a bunch of great Ameritrash games but no convention to get people together to play these games.

The first post about Trashfest was on BGG on August 25, 2007 www.boardgamegeek.com/article/1684748#1684748 with this post we started kicking the idea around what games we should have a Trashfest. The list of possible games got pretty big pretty fast. Originally, we were going to limit the number of games to be included in Trashfest to about 10 games. But I hated to tell somebody that Nexus Ops would be included in Trashfest but Dune wouldn’t be. We needed some structure, demos and timing for games or we might as well just make this open gaming. Open gaming is great but people also needed to know that if they came on May 2nd at 7:00 PM there would be a bunch of people to play Arkham Horror with. In the end we ended up with a great balance of open gaming and structured gaming.

Next Post – The feature games. Why we selected the games we selected.

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31 Jan 2008 21:29 - 04 Feb 2008 12:38 #1722 by KingPut
I need some help. I'm trying to get a more complete list of Ameritrash Games and the average playing time for Trashfest 2008. I don't need the really strange or rare games. I'm just don't want to miss anything real big that people might play. I also want to make sure that my average playing times aren't way out of whack.

Class 1 games
Time: 30 to 60 minutes
Scoring = 1 x # of players = Trash Points

Rock Em Sock Em Robots, Ca$h 'n Gun$*, Family Business, Last Night on Earth*, Mall of Horror. Wings of War, Mordred, Battleball, Star Wars Epic Battles, Colossus Arena, Kung Fu Fighting, Survive, Nuke War, Lord of the Rings: The Confrontation, Caveman, Duel in the Dark, Dungeon Twister, Space Hulk, Mall of Horror, 300 the Board Game, Betrayal at the house on the hill, Buffy the Vampire Slayer

Class 2 games
Time: 60 to 180 min.
Scoring: 2 x # of players = Trash Point

Gangsters*, Monsters Menace America, Stock Car Racing Game*, Robo Rally*, Nexus Ops, Life Boats, Tide of Iron, Battlelore*, Memoir 44, Battle Cry, Risk, Buck Rogers, Return of Heroes, Bootleggers, Risk – any version, Twilight Struggles, Making of the President, Bootleggers, I’m the Boss, Railroad Tycoon, Merchant of Venus, Dust, Monopoly, Star Wars Queens Gambit, Wizard Quest, War on Terror, Zombies, Circus Maximus, Mall of Horror, Tales of Arabian Knights

Class 3 games
Time: 3 to 6 hours
Scoring: 3 x # of players = Trash Points

Fury of Dracula*, Axis&Allies, Fortress America, Samurai Swords, Warrior Knights*, War of the Ring, Talisman, Prophecy*, Star Craft*, World of Warcraft, Dune, History of the World, Origins, Republic of Rome, Britannia, Titan, Runebound, Magic Realm, War of the Ring, A Game of Thrones, Descent, Doom

Class 4 games
Time 6 hours or more
Scoring: 4 x # of player = Trash Points

Diplomacy, Twilight Imperium*, Age of Renaissance and Civilization*

Cooperative Games:
Time: 30 - 480 minutes
Scoring = Shared Trash Points:
Arkham Horror (4)*, Werewolf (1)*. Pandemic (2), Shadow over Camelot (2)

Euros not AT
Scoring = -1 Trash Points * # of player (-2 points if the game includes farm animals or royal favors)

Agricola, Caylus, Puerto Rico, Settlers, Carcassonne, GOA, Age of Steam, Power Grid, RA, Amun Re, etc.

Lose 2 Points for complaining about die rolls, randomness or rules. Lose 0 points for complaining about the smell in the wargamers room.

*Featured Games
Last edit: 04 Feb 2008 12:38 by KingPut.

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31 Jan 2008 23:13 #1725 by ubarose

Also, should we include Waros and Hybrids??? Wallenstein, Imperial, Antika, Struggle of Empires, Mare Nostrum, Shogun, Parthenon, The End of the Triumvirate, Fire & Axe


I vote no.

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01 Feb 2008 07:12 #1737 by bob_the_goon
Have to agree with ubarose. As much as I love me some Fire and Axe, it doesn't belong at Trashfest.

And what about Talisman? Especially 2nd edition with a few expansions. . .

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01 Feb 2008 08:13 #1742 by ubarose
Bob, I think I saw Talisman in the list. I think it is in the first Class 3 Games sections.

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01 Feb 2008 13:18 #1758 by iguanaDitty
I vote no, and I would include Through the Ages in there as well, much as I love the game. And Acquire? Really? I don't get it...
Is Mare Nostrum a hybrid or AT all the way? I don't know much about it.

Also I think you missed an asterisk on Fury of Dracula.

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01 Feb 2008 14:30 #1760 by KingPut
My overall philosophy is to go slightly broader on the classification of games for Trashfest. Meaning a game doesn’t have to be 100% Ameritrash but we still have to set the line somewhere 50%, 70%, 80% Ameritrash? I tend to agree with you about throwing out the waros and hybrids. Age of Empires III and Imperial were part of Euroquest this year so that settles it they’re out.

I also think its one think to include Rock Em Sock Em Robots and Werewolf which aren’t really Ameritrash board games but will only get people 1 trash point, act as a break from a heavy game like Ti3 and take 30 minutes or less. It’s a different story about including Imperial or Age of Empires III which could potentially get people 15 Trash Points, take 2 or more hours to play and take people away from the purpose of Trashfest which is to play some real Trash.

The only Waro / Hybid, I’m leaning on including and maybe it’s because I’m a Wallace homie is Struggle of Empires. I think the only thing Struggle of Empires lacks is cool plastic cannons and ships.

Fury of Dracula is now corrected. I've moved it to cooperative scoring last night before posting this. This gives everyone 3 points for playing the game. As a competitive game Dracula would get 12 points and Hunter 1 point if Dracula wins and Dracula would get 1 point and Hunter 4 points each if the Hunters won. As the GM, IguanaDitty how do you feel about this change? We'd use the same scoring for Buffy, Descent and Doom.

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01 Feb 2008 14:41 #1762 by ubarose

My overall philosophy is to go slightly broader on the classification of games for Trashfest.


Well, you're the boss, but I would go narrower. One of the arguments that our detractors have been using is that Ameritrash isn't really a genre. It's just a list of games that we like.

I say keep it tight. Keep it real.

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01 Feb 2008 16:25 - 01 Feb 2008 16:26 #1764 by iguanaDitty

As a competitive game Dracula would get 12 points and Hunter 1 point if Dracula wins and Dracula would get 1 point and Hunter 4 points each if the Hunters won.


I'm not too good at scoring systems. This seems fine to me. I guess if we were worried about people gaming the system to win prizes it would be something to obsess over...maybe we could split the prizes into disciples of the short-game vs masters of the long-game, ie people who got the majority of points from the shorter games would get a different prize pool or something. But that seems overly complicated, really.
Last edit: 01 Feb 2008 16:26 by iguanaDitty. Reason: formatting

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01 Feb 2008 16:29 - 01 Feb 2008 16:41 #1765 by KingPut
I agree lets keep it real. I don't plan on adding any additional games to the list unless I missed something major. I just want to avoid spliting hairs whether Battlelore or Twilight Struggles or whatever is trashy enough. I've dumped Acquire, the only thing that it had going for it was that it's a classic AH game and it has some randomness but it's very abstract. Besides I suck at Acquire. Also, I killed Through the Ages. I've never played it, I want to one of these days but I'll go with your recommendation.
Last edit: 01 Feb 2008 16:41 by KingPut.

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01 Feb 2008 17:06 #1766 by KingPut
iguanaDitty and Uba, the way we score Fury of Dracula, Doom, Descent and Buffy goes beyond just the scoring system which is secondary. When you're the dungeon master or a Vampire are you trying your hardest to kick the shit out of the other players to win (which I think you'll say yes) or are you holding back and just having fun and creating an experience (like in traditional role playing games). If you always try to kick the shit out of the other hunters then we should count these as a competitive games.

I've never played Tales of Arbian Nights what's the deal. Is there winners and losers?

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01 Feb 2008 17:15 #1767 by iguanaDitty
iguanaDitty wrote:

As a competitive game Dracula would get 12 points and Hunter 1 point if Dracula wins and Dracula would get 1 point and Hunter 4 points each if the Hunters won.


I'm not too good at scoring systems. This seems fine to me. I guess if we were worried about people gaming the system to win prizes it would be something to obsess over...maybe we could split the prizes into disciples of the short-game vs masters of the long-game, ie people who got the majority of points from the shorter games would get a different prize pool or something. But that seems overly complicated, really.


Yeah, I managed to write exactly the opposite of what I meant. The cooperative score seems fine to me is what I meant to say.

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01 Feb 2008 17:21 #1768 by iguanaDitty
Kick the shit is correct, for all of those games. Except I don't know anything about Tales.

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01 Feb 2008 18:19 #1769 by ubarose
Tales is not cooperative if you use the complete two quests variation. It's a race game. We only play by the quest rules. There are two other variations, but I can't remember them. I think one is the story telling variation which isn't competitive, but we never play those rules.

Also, Zev is tweaking the rules, so the new version is will probably be a bit different from the original.

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03 Feb 2008 00:43 #1794 by KingPut
iguanaDitty wrote:

Kick the shit is correct, for all of those games. Except I don't know anything about Tales.

Thanks, I've made the corrections and moved Fury, Buffy, Doom, etc back into the competitive category.

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