Ameritrash Championship: Dune vs. Cosmic Encounter

CE is a fun beer and pretzels kind of game, but I still like a lot more meat on my plate. Dune has theme, and it has enough narrative to immerse me into that theme. CE is good for laughs, but at the end of the night it's just as empty as an experience as any fluffy euro like dominion or ticket to ride.

As some people used to complain around here, sure you know you've played CE, but will it be a memorable experience years down the road? Will you ever say "remember that one game we played in 1995?" I can do that with Dune. With CE, not so much.

jeb wrote:

San Il Defanso wrote:

jeb wrote: People of Earth: We are all about theme here. CE is crazy fun. Even if/when it goes fucking nuts. But the theme is absent. It's just a pile of powers. "Oh, I am a Mutant Macron. What are you?" When sitting down to play Dune, there's no ambiguity. Er, well, no more than is implied in the book.

Theme is overrated. Me, I'm all about fun. Interaction. The ability to have a dynamic experience in a game. Dune provides all of those things, but Cosmic Encounter does all of them better. The only argument for Dune over Cosmic is Herbert's setting. That's not an invalid argument or a bad reason to vote for Dune, but everything else about Dune that's awesome was already in Cosmic Encounter. And Cosmic Encounter is a much more flexible, dynamic, exciting game.

Don't make US get kanly up in here.

Fixed that.

And Theme ~DOESDOESDOES~ matter. I can prove it.

Take Space Hulk.

Remove Marines. Insert Elmer Fudds.

Remove Genestealers. Insert Bugs Bunnies.

Remove Grim, awesome artwork. Add fields with flowers and whatnot.

Now tell me that it's as much fun, even if the gameplay is THE EXACT SAME, as being a God-Emperor of Mankind's chosen warriors aboard a floating egg-ship loaded with some of the most deadly xenomorphs in the known universe.

Yeah, thought so. I dare you to lie and say that the FuddHunter would be as much fun. Because you WOULD be lying.

Chapel wrote: CE is a fun beer and pretzels kind of game, but I still like a lot more meat on my plate. Dune has theme, and it has enough narrative to immerse me into that theme. CE is good for laughs, but at the end of the night it's just as empty as an experience as any fluffy euro like dominion or ticket to ride.

As some people used to complain around here, sure you know you've played CE, but will it be a memorable experience years down the road? Will you ever say "remember that one game we played in 1995?" I can do that with Dune. With CE, not so much.

I still recall the time me and a friend were playing (He was Harkonen and I was Atreides) and we had a grand mal melee. When we showed our leaders we both screamed, "TREACHERY!"..... and a lot of people went to the tanks. CE? First time I played in a long while was at Trashfest. I remember playing as the Shadow and winning... That was about it.

Of course theme matters. I said it's a perfectly legit reason to vote for Dune, didn't I? But it's far from the ONLY thing that matters. Dune wins the theme competition, but that's the only place where its the clear winner. Everything else that it does well, Cosmic does better.

And I've had plenty of epic, memorable games of Cosmic Encounter. They may not have fancy words like "Sardaukar" in them, but they were among some of the best game sessions I've ever had.

DUNE


I play CE more, and i appreciate that it's a tighter design, but this the crown of AT, not tight game design or accessibility, and AT is undefined.

Also, I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't play FuddHunter. To the Kickstarter-mobile!

I'd rather have my hand in a Bene Gesserit pain box with a Gom Jabbar at my throat than play Cosmic Encounter. I just don't get it.

Vote: DUNE

Dune is good, but it is no Cosmic Encounter.

Vote: COSMIC ENCOUNTER

Chapel wrote: CE is a fun beer and pretzels kind of game, but I still like a lot more meat on my plate. Dune has theme, and it has enough narrative to immerse me into that theme. CE is good for laughs, but at the end of the night it's just as empty as an experience as any fluffy euro like dominion or ticket to ride.

I'm also a fan of the meat-on-the-plate thing. I love games with all kinds of detail that is drenched in theme. I love games like TI3, Here I Stand, Siege of Jerusalem. Hell, I grew up basically as a grognard, playing things like Panzerblitz. But if we're talking about the best AT game of all time, we're not talking about something that virtually requires knowledge of the theme to work. Half the assessments of Rex on the Fortress have been thinly-veiled complaints about the fact that it isn't Dune. They don't say anything about the fact that it has the same rules. They just say it's not Dune. That's not an appreciation for a game. That's an appreciation for a book (which deserves it; don't get me wrong.)

Dune needs the right kind of people to play well. CE can play well with anyone. Dune needs six players to play at its best. CE can get by with four but can play hilariously with up to eight. CE is fun, wacky, random, brutal, and completely interactive (what many could say are the hallmarks of Ameritrash.) Dune fulfills 3 of the 5 there.

I'm in favor of complex games. I'd play them non-stop if I could convince my group to play them with me. But, if we're talking about the best AT game of all-time, CE is simply the better design, irrespective of spice or influence.

Jackwraith wrote: CE is simply the better design..

It is indeed elegant.