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Bugs: Recent Topics Paging, Uploading Images & Preview (11 Dec 2020)

Recent Topics paging, uploading images and preview bugs require a patch which has not yet been released.

× Painting Minis, Print & Play and Other Creative Type Stuff.

Making miniatures: tell me everything.

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25 Jan 2015 03:45 - 25 Jan 2015 07:57 #196022 by Cranberries
I saw the recent KS for Stronghold's game and got curious about the process of making a miniature.

How much does it cost to hire someone to sculpt a mini?

What happens next--do they do a 3D scan of the master sculpt? How big are those sculpts?

When they make the miniatures from the master sculpt, do they have to create unique molds for each miniature, and isn't that horrifically expensive?

Some answers that I looked up since posting this lazyweb plea:

boardgamegeek.com/thread/1228148/qs-dupl...tems-and-resin-minis

boardgamegeek.com/thread/1264060/producing-miniatures-question

boardgamegeek.com/article/16989532#16989532

From what I gather, people actually sculpt them at 28mm, rather than make something 12" high and then 3d scanning and 3d printing a smaller version for the molding process.
Last edit: 25 Jan 2015 07:57 by Cranberries. Reason: Got off my lazy butt and used Gooooogle.

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25 Jan 2015 09:13 #196026 by Sevej
Actually these days people actually sculpt digitally, especially for plastic miniatures.

For the injection molding miniatures (ie. plastic miniatures), the design goes directly to the milling machine, carving a block of steel/aluminium for the mold. A mold may contain multiple miniatures/parts. Generally they are set apart by sets. A company may set apart hero miniatures & monster miniatures, since monster miniatures are in multiples.

I'm not sure how they do master sculpt -> steel mold for plastic now.

For metal it's much simpler with rubber molds. You don't need 3x masters. I know the Pendraken guys can help you with that.

But even now, a lot of metal miniatures are created using digital sculpt. Scult, print, clean up and create the mold for metal miniatures.
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25 Jan 2015 10:36 #196037 by engineer Al
I am blissfully ignorant on this topic. Used the "Sombodys Else's Problem" drive.
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25 Jan 2015 19:19 - 25 Jan 2015 19:23 #196073 by Sevej
PS. The expensive part is milling the metal block to mold.

You may want to dig into this kickstarter. It's digital to plastic, and so far, in my opinion, the best "indie" plastic kit.

www.kickstarter.com/projects/dreamforge-...s-crusader-plastic-m

The guy also kickstarted metal miniatures.

The plastic miniatures had a target of 40k, while the metal's target was 3k.
Last edit: 25 Jan 2015 19:23 by Sevej.
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25 Jan 2015 22:32 #196088 by SuperflyPete
Most people still hand sculpt. They start with an armiture, or a wire model, then build it up with Green Stuff putty. Then they shave, cut, chop, etc. That's the master model. Then they use any of many mold materials to make a silicone mold (assuming they're resin casting, spincasting) or a mold made of other materials such a steel (for injection molding) or other types for other specialty casting. Once that master mold is made, they make the models.

The end.
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26 Jan 2015 00:33 #196098 by Cranberries
Thanks all for the insights. I checked out the Dream Forge site and their stuff is very detailed and perpetually sold out.

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26 Jan 2015 11:50 #196147 by SuperflyPete

craniac wrote: How much does it cost to hire someone to sculpt a mini?

It varies immensely. Chad Hoverter's rates are different from Copplestone, or Murch, or anyone else. Rates are from $150.00 all the way to $1000.00 depending on who makes it, whether it's part of a larger deal, etc. I've worked with several miniatures game companies in different capacities and have talked to dozens more about this and this seems to be the range.

What happens next--do they do a 3D scan of the master sculpt? How big are those sculpts?

Most 3D printers still don't have the resolution that can make top-tier models. So, as I said before, most of the time, they go from wax or putty right into making a master mold. Let's say that we're talking about a one-off model with no other models in the kit - they make 5 copies from that master mold, then make a NEW mold, with 5 copies of the master in it. That's then their production mold. This is for spincasting and resin only - blow or injection molding is an entirely different animal.

When they make the miniatures from the master sculpt, do they have to create unique molds for each miniature, and isn't that horrifically expensive?

If there's 5 different models in a kit, then they would take the 5 master models and make a master mold first, to reserve it as a "safety" and then make a production mold. They can then spin one copy of all 5 models in one shot. It's the same price, though, as making 5 copies of one mold. Making molds is not hard, though, or always expensive. It's the vacuum chamber that's expensive. To make a silicone mold with no air bubbles, you need to mix the shit up, then suck the bubbles out in a vacuum chamber. It's also a question of how many sides the mold needs - a two part mold is fine for a lot of models but the more complex and dynamic the cutouts, the more pieces of the mold you need. Lots of variables.

From what I gather, people actually sculpt them at 28mm, rather than make something 12" high and then 3d scanning and 3d printing a smaller version for the molding process.

Most people sculpt at 28mm (or the scale of the actual finished model) and then go right to resin or metal, or whatever. In the OLD days they used to have shrinking mold material, so they'd sculpt 10% larger than the 28mm models and then cast - the final product would literally be 10% smaller due to shrinkage of the molds, and worse, it wasn't a repeatable phenomenon. Now most are non-shrinking and the models are what they are. I always kind of wondered if the phenomenon of shrinking molds is what changed the whole industry to "28mm Heroic Scale" (which is closer to 32mm).

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26 Jan 2015 11:51 #196148 by SuperflyPete

craniac wrote: Thanks all for the insights. I checked out the Dream Forge site and their stuff is very detailed and perpetually sold out.



There's actually a whole lot of companies that make modular models for many genres - zombies to sci-fi to WW2. What are you looking to accomplish and why? Maybe I can find you something.

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26 Jan 2015 13:49 #196172 by Cranberries
I'm just curious about the industry at this point, although future plans might (but really never will) include:

1) Making alternative miniatures for Space Hulk that actually fit the boards

2) Creating a Kickstarter called "Huge pile of miniatures!" and charging $300 a box. I'll call it a gaming "kit" and no rules or board will be included. Then I'll flee to Brazil.
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26 Jan 2015 14:08 #196180 by SuperflyPete
Or Poland.

Go out and get CircuitCam and then get Formlabs Form1+. Then learn how to model in CAD. Then make miniatures.

When you get there, call me. I've got a contract metal casting company. Or, you can call Reaper and ask them about contract injection molding. Or go to Alibaba and see about some Chinese sweatshop so you, too, can exploit cheap labor.

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26 Jan 2015 17:00 #196218 by Sevej
I would contact Wargames Factory if you need to liaise with Chinese sweatshops, or Renedra. Wargames Factory is Dreamforge's manufacturer, and Renedra made the best Mantic plastics, which ironically were the first sets.

For metal spincasting, I'd contact Pendraken, Copplestone, or Perry twins. Interestingly, Perry twins cast 4000 miniatures specially sculpted for Peter Jackson for his Anzac Day exhibit this March.

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