What KICKSTARTER(S) are you BACKING and WHY?

Thanks -- I don't think those gameplay elements would bother me (you could easily randomize the creature spawns). . The cards dictating actions seems reasonable as well.

Is it worth it just to get the base game they are selling in the kickstarter for the expansions ($220 for the base game + expansions) or is the kickstarter version of the base game worth tracking down -- were there many additional play elements added?

Gary Sax wrote: I think the best way not to let it annoy you so much is to think of it as a different hobby: collecting. Though it doesn't help make BGG less of a place dominated by collectors, discussionwise.

Yeah, it has become utterly predictable that the first 5 posts will be The Stroke Brigade attempting to stave off a collective aneurysm by asking each other, "So what do I need in order to get everything? " And nary a peep about how the damn thing might actually play. Toys first, game later.

And then the constant bickering back-and-forth about what stretch-goals offend which people by virtue of being KS-only. I don't mind Kickstarters, but the people that buy them annoy the living bejeezus outta me. If I ran the world, the phrase "Take my money!" would be punishable by death.

Those people are second in annoyance only to the people that just do nothing constructive except bitch about other gamers and how they decide to interact and enjoy their hobby.

Space Ghost wrote: Thanks -- I don't think those gameplay elements would bother me (you could easily randomize the creature spawns). . The cards dictating actions seems reasonable as well.

Is it worth it just to get the base game they are selling in the kickstarter for the expansions ($220 for the base game + expansions) or is the kickstarter version of the base game worth tracking down -- were there many additional play elements added?

I don't know really as it's a mixed bag all around. The original kickstarter had insane value, like $500+ MSRP for $100. Even though I haven't used many of the extras yet (not enough time to play) I'm not sure I'd like it as much if I had to pay full retail.

The base game itself has been clearance off multiple times from Miniature Market and CSI for as low as $40ish. The base game set with the skeletons on the Kickstarter is a decent deal but not when comparing to clearance prices.

Because the game is so divisive I'd honestly recommend trying to just pick up the base game for real cheap, maybe second hand if possible. Then you can find the new rulebook and re-worded cards online in PDF form if you need them. We played exclusively with the original cards, which are very poorly worded but we made do with their FAQs and just making up rulings on the spot (it's a Co-Op so this isn't problematic). If you find you like the game you can probably purchase the updated rules/cards from Megacon after the Kickstarter.

Now, if you don't mind possibly throwing a bunch of money away in case you don't like it, backing the Kickstarter at the $220+ level is a decent value depending on what stretch goals are unlocked going forward.

You will be missing stuff from the first campaign that you don't need, such as 4 different type of monster groups, additional quests, items, etc.

One big complaint with the base game is only the two different types of Monsters - Orcs (Grubbers) and Spiders (Crawlers). Each type though has Captain minis and the base game comes with a Mini Boss (Skeleton guy) and Boss (Huge Spider) which are amazing. The minis in this game are the best I've seen from pre-assembled board game quality minis. They kick the shit out of Shadows of Brimstone and even Descent.

This complaint of only two different type of monsters in the base game didn't bother us after 6 or so plays, but we also like Claustrophobia which has much less monster variety.

the rulebook and cards killed Myth for me, glad to see they are being extremely reasonable on the reprints.

I loved how the characters worked. your swordsman didn't move next to a monster and roll a die to see if he hits. he rolls a bunch of dice to see if he cuts a swathe through a bunch of monsters. the archer fires arrows that pierce multiple baddies (or fires really fast..). really cool when it worked, and I see alot of fun with the system. we just grew frustruated and I know it'd never come back to the table.

OKay so I need some advice here, even though I'm pretty sure how this will turn out, since the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. I'm not crazy about KS, but I generally regard it the same way as Steve Jackson Games. Nearly everything it does I'm not interested in, but every now and then something comes along that interests me. (A faulty analogy; I can't remember the last SJG that did this.) Two such things have popped up.

I went ahead and backed Burgle Bros , as I love the idea (it sounds like what I was hoping Infiltration would be). Don't know anything about Wok Star, but I thought Paperback was a good game and a lovely design. Thanks to Grudunza for pointing this one out.

I'm tempted by Vault Wars , but I just don't know. It sounds like it could be a lot of fun, but the Dead of Winter pedigree makes me wary, since I not only disliked Dead of Winter as a game, I thought it had some poor design elements in it. Now, VW is only $20 so shit, what's the problem here? But even at $20 I don't want a game I don't really like and can't get rid of. (Plus, I'm trying to buy fewer games, period.) So I'm thinking of taking a pass on it unless I can really be talked into it.

Legomancer wrote: I'm tempted by Vault Wars

Nah. You'll be able to pick it up for $20 shortly after it's out, or get it with cheap math trade bait. Might as well send one out if you're bringing one in.

An auction game about Storage Wars with a dungeons & dragons theme. Heck, you could write this thing in a weekend.

S.

Legomancer wrote: ... but the Dead of Winter pedigree makes me wary, since I not only disliked Dead of Winter as a game, I thought it had some poor design elements in it.

Dave, I can understand that you disliked it, but I'd really like to hear your thoughts on the "poor design elements".

I can't imagine how it got such high praise - it's good, but it's not great, I think. Maybe even very good.

Sagrilarus wrote: An auction game about Storage Wars with a dungeons & dragons theme. Heck, you could write this thing in a weekend.
S.

No. No, you can't.

RE: Dead of Winter

It's hard to put into words what I felt was poor design in DOW (other than it's really fucking boring). I guess it's not poor design so much as trying to pump up lackluster design. The Crossroads cards, while vaunted as a boardgame revelation, are just event cards with an extra level of pain in the ass. The crux of the game is digging through card piles looking for what you need. The "dripping with theme and narrative" is big chunks of text dropped on you. Most of all I think the traitor element is thematically and mechanically stupid. It's there strictly to check the "traitor element" item off the list so that people who hate co-ops because they can't win alone will play it.

Basically DOW seemed like a pretty mediocre and dull game that somehow has gotten praise as a masterwork of design. I get that it's not for me, and that's fine, but beyond my personal biases I still just don't get what's so mechanically amazing about it. It seems pretty average. So telling me, "From the designer of Dead of Winter" doesn't earn any points with me and even makes me uninterested.

But I think you guys are right. I can easily pass on this one.

The problem I have with Burgle Bros is the first bullet point is --- "Actually feels like a heist". I haven't gone into the designer bios, but is one of them a former thief? I don't know why I find that so irritating, but I do.

Maybe add the word "movie" to the end of that sentence.

Space Ghost wrote: The problem I have with Burgle Bros is the first bullet point is --- "Actually feels like a heist". I haven't gone into the designer bios, but is one of them a former thief? I don't know why I find that so irritating, but I do.

I'm hoping that's legit because then the game will pay for itself.

This thread feels like a trap, but I'm going to go ahead and have my 5-posts-to-my-name bad self mention a recent Kickstarter game that I've been waffling on. Posthuman has a couple of strikes against it: a new developer, and not much discernible extra value for paying retail+shipping 9 months in advance of actually receiving the game.

But that setting, the solitaire option, build-your-character rules, just enough player interaction to avoid the multi-player solitaire syndrome while still being attractive to those friends of mine who shy away from confrontational games, and the use of Mr. B Games for handling the Kickstarter logistics all work in the game's favor. It looks like a boardgame that will have a similar feel to the punishing NEO Scavenger rogue-like: desperation, meaningful choices, and a lonely end in the ruins of a crumbling town. And for what it's worth, the KS campaign's opening video is probably the best I've seen.

Shoot, it sounds like I'm talking myself into backing it again...

That is a pretty slick video. I went deep on Deadzone. Let's just say I hope I play it a LOT.