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Kevin Klemme
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Mycelia Board Game Review

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River Wild Board Game Review

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Outback Crossing Review

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22 Mar 2017 11:39 #245498 by JEM

Legomancer wrote: I have a hard time flipping from "AN ANCIENT EVIL STIRS AND MUST BE DEFEATED ASAP" to "man I gotta fuck this dude".


I think Dragon Age 2 did it better than the first. In the first game, the main story is pushing this notion that everything is urgent and we have to save the world. But then it lets you trot back and forward between the Dwarf city and the Mages Tower or whatever, doing collect-em-up side quest nonsense. In Dragon Age 2, so far as I recall the story initially is just getting on with leveling up your character, socially & politically as well as numerically. All those side quests make more sense in the scope of working shenanigans to gain reputation in the city, rather than hitting a giant Pause button on the end of the world.

Sad moment in ME2- I ran off and did Zaeed's (w/ever) revenge mission but probably too early in the game, as I didn't have enough paragon to choose the really condescending dialogue option at the end. Sadfayse ensued, but I think we'll both live.

I loved Borderlands 2 (more than the first) up until the difficulty cliff past level 60, where you either switch to the ultra mode, which was akin to hosing down enemies for a full minute with wet spaghetti hoping they'll catch a chill, or staying on normal and making no exp at all. I've seen a lot of the youtube videos of this higher level stuff (I never got close to OP) so I guess it's tuned to those players who got all the right weapons and learned all the tricks.

Side note, I scored a Witcher 2 key for $1.50 so that's in the queue.
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22 Mar 2017 11:42 #245499 by Black Barney
yeah, what happens again if you don't have enough paragon in Zheed's mission? Everyone in the factory dies? I can't remember.

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22 Mar 2017 12:14 #245501 by jeb
Relevant!

www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2017/03/22/the-deliberator

Deeply true. I spend a lot of time coordinating outfits in DESTINY because looking fly is very important.

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22 Mar 2017 12:16 #245503 by Black Barney
did they change animators? Tycho looks totally fucked

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22 Mar 2017 12:52 #245506 by Gary Sax
No, penny arcade's artist has drastically changed his style in the last 4-5 years.

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22 Mar 2017 13:25 #245508 by JEM

Black Barney wrote: yeah, what happens again if you don't have enough paragon in Zheed's mission? Everyone in the factory dies? I can't remember.


You don't get to tell him that he brought it on himself (I took the option to save the refinery and let his enemy escape).
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22 Mar 2017 14:09 #245511 by Legomancer

RobertB wrote: As for Dishonored, I wouldn't go so far as to say its plot was 'inane'.


"Corvo, we broke you out of prison so you can put an 11 year old girl on the throne. It's a great idea."
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22 Mar 2017 15:28 #245515 by RobertB
Legomancer wrote:

"Corvo, we broke you out of prison so you can put an 11 year old girl on the throne. It's a great idea."


Since you put it that way... :)

I don't think Dishonored's plot is any dumber than about half of all James Bond movies' plots. Granted, that's a low bar to clear.

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22 Mar 2017 17:44 #245518 by boothwah

jeb wrote: Relevant!

www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2017/03/22/the-deliberator

Deeply true. I spend a lot of time coordinating outfits in DESTINY because looking fly is very important.


I finally got my Titan to a Tier 12 armor loadout - and have to resist the urge to swap out the mark and helmet because they don't look good with my favorite shader.

I have probably trashed some decent gear on my hunter because it didn't look good with Sparklepony.

Time to resurrect the Guardians thread for Age of Triumph.
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22 Mar 2017 19:23 #245525 by wadenels
I'm not a fan of big sprawling dialogue trees in VG RPGs. I don't play video games to be in a drama film and if I did I'd rather have choices that reflect what I would do than the typical conflicted protagonist. On the rare occasion that I want that movie feeling from a game then I'd rather turn to something like a Telltale game where that's the point.

Also not a big fan of 1001 side quests and miles of text. I got bored with Skyrim because of these things. It felt like everybody had a side quest to go do something that usually involved running into more bandits or Draugr, and they made the game feel less deep. Same with the books. I stopped reading them altogether, and eventually just stopped bothering to even check them. For every interesting book there are a thousand crappy poems and history of the something books that became uninteresting in short order.

I'm still enjoying Breath of the Wild because of how much story and padding there isn't. When you uncover bits and pieces of the story they seem really important because there aren't that many of them. There are relatively few side quests for the size of the game world, so tackling them isn't overwhelming. Most NPCs don't have much for dialog but there aren't a ton of them so it seems worthwhile to talk to them all to find the ones that have little nuggets of info. Yet the entire game world feels cohesive and alive without and extra layer of "stuff to do" on top of it. Even with its faults, such as samey enemies and limited weapon variety and too much damn rain, Hyrule feels more interesting by having less instead of more.

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22 Mar 2017 20:19 #245526 by Sevej
I think discussion about plot is rather pointless. I found that it's not the plot that matters, but how you convey it. If you go far enough, everything could be distilled to inane 1 or 2 sentences. In an RPG, which you expect to be long, having a long-ish plot *will* make for stupid story. Just check Final Fantasy. It works for a game, but once you take a back seat, observe *only* the plot again from the beginning to the last, it'll be stupid, have messed up pacing and plenty of holes.

Except for Code Geass... there's no word invented yet for its plot...

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22 Mar 2017 20:28 #245527 by Michael Barnes
It turns out that the best way to tell a story in a video game is to SUGGEST one instead of TELLING one. Or just tell enough to create a narrative rather than drowning the gameplay out with endless exposition.

I think Bloodborne may be the best example of this. Everything about that game- every character design, every environment, every item, every proper name- suggests a story. You might get a sentence or two with it. But the effect is that there is a sublimated narrative that reveals itself as the player works through the game. It's a compelling, mysterious story that never disappoints with over-explanation, contrived plot devices, or unsatisfactory resolutions.

All that matters is that the player understands that SOMETHING has happened in Yharnam and that SOMETHING is happening. Putting it all together reveals things that were not evident at first, and the player had sufficient agency to alter the scope of what goes on in the story without spoiling its mystique or intent.

Think about it- "Vicar Amelia"..."Rom the Vacuous Spider"...those snatcher its with the bags...all of that is creating a world...without ever putting the player in a 10 minute walk and talk where you follow someone and they tell you the story.
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22 Mar 2017 22:54 - 22 Mar 2017 22:57 #245529 by Gary Sax
I get where you all are coming from but Witcher 3 is just good at this purely plot/character narrative pseudo-interactive movie thing, even if it's not necessarily what videogames are best at (I tend to agree with Barnes and others).

As a testament to the Witcher 3, usually selfish options are not things I choose in these types of games. I've never seen a white knight option I refuse in, say, Baldur's Gate or Mass Effect games. But I'll be god damned if every time I get a Witcher quest to slay a monster and I do it I never refuse the payment afterwards. Ever. The way Geralt is written taking the payment is never a fuck you. It's his job. I don't really even do it for the in-game money. You get the sense when you ask for payment (you almost always get the option not to) that Geralt has professional pride and it's written that way. Nor do the other characters consider it some kind of crazy thing. I've only chosen not to take money I think once in the intro area, but they were almost more disconcerted I didn't take payment than if I had.
Last edit: 22 Mar 2017 22:57 by Gary Sax.
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23 Mar 2017 00:16 - 23 Mar 2017 00:18 #245532 by Vlad
In my opinion, Bioware did one excellent game - Baldur's Gate 2. It was surprisingly massive and epic, although not actually well-written for most part. The thing is, the dialogue had little voice-over, so you could choose to read or not to read, and focus on the good bits. All other Bioware games after BG2 - KOTOR, Jade Empire, ME - are fully voiced, and whatever you think of the plots, the truth is that the dialogue is not that great. It is slow, cliche-ridden, and people just don't talk like that. But those games - back then - were pretty unique and didn't have much competition. I remember that if I was in the mood to play an RPG with conversation trees, it was either Bioware or nothing.
Oh, yes, then there was Oblivion and Fallout 3, which writing is so dull it makes Bioware games look like a roller-coaster.
Witcher games raised the bar big time. I totally buy into most of their characters. And I really like the fact that it throws curveballs at the player - most quests have an "ironic" twist of sorts, where you get something pretty unexpected and beyond the basic good/evil outcome.
And then, you have Souls series, that as Barnes rightly says (about Bloodborne, which I agree is the the pinnacle of From storytelling, but it really applies to all Souls), is about suggesting (not even showing).

I am playing the new Torment now and it is a completely different beast - a gigantic choose-your-adventure, and I enjoy it a lot, too. It has to do with the quality of the writing itself, and also with the fact that it is incredibly focused - wherever you poke, you get more story, no mini-games (unlike Witcher 3), no grind (unlike Souls).
Last edit: 23 Mar 2017 00:18 by Vlad.
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23 Mar 2017 10:29 #245542 by RobertB
Gary Sax wrote:

As a testament to the Witcher 3, usually selfish options are not things I choose in these types of games. I've never seen a white knight option I refuse in, say, Baldur's Gate or Mass Effect games. But I'll be god damned if every time I get a Witcher quest to slay a monster and I do it I never refuse the payment afterwards. Ever. The way Geralt is written taking the payment is never a fuck you. It's his job. I don't really even do it for the in-game money. You get the sense when you ask for payment (you almost always get the option not to) that Geralt has professional pride and it's written that way. Nor do the other characters consider it some kind of crazy thing. I've only chosen not to take money I think once in the intro area, but they were almost more disconcerted I didn't take payment than if I had.


I turned in a monster hunt quest in Witcher 3, and the guy says, "Uh, I'm kind of broke." IIRC, the two options were, "I'M GONNA KILL YOU WHERE YOU FUCKING STAND!", and "I'll be a really nice guy and come back next week for only double what you owe me."

And you're absolutely right. It's his job, and the in-game characters know it. Even the brokest old crone in a one-room hut will come up with some cash if you do a job for her.
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