We absolutedly need an animation thread

Wow, I can't watch it since I'm at work, but based on the representative screenshot, it looks like a pretty nice condition copy of that cartoon.

OK, so first of all, regardless of merit, of course it should be available. I'm not saying it should be marketed toward kids; you just put it on an archival disc, so adults can see it. There is a TON of old racist stuff that's available for adults to see; does anyone make a stink about the fact that Birth of a Nation is available on DVD, which is about, no exaggeration, 1000x more racist? Of course not! It's a hugely important part of film history, an absolutely fascinating film on multiple levels, and NO one is just going to go to Blockbuster and rent it without having an idea about what they're getting into. *Triumph of the fucking Will* is available on DVD. And we can't have Coal Black, or the black centaur in Fantasia, or Song of the South?

Second of all, as to the cartoon itself: I haven't seen it too many times. Despite this, it left such an impression that I can still hum parts of it, still remember lines, still remember the way that bouncing bike looks! The energy in that cartoon is incredible, maybe more than any other Clampett cartoon even. It's almost like a Clampett cartoon crossed with a Fleischer cartoon. As to how racist it is...certainly it was done with great affection toward black people, but "with great affection" certainly does not equal "not racist", he was just oblivious. Maybe I'm outing myself as ridiculously insensitive, but I genuinely really like those character designs...and there are a bazillion other cartoons which also deal in ethnic stereotypes, people just don't have as much trouble with them, understandably, because they had less negative historical impact than these.

BTW, DER FUEHRER'S FACE, long a "banned cartoon" (both due to Nazi Donald and due to Japanese stereotypes), actually IS available on a legitimate Disney DVD nowadays: the box set of war cartoons. Here's hoping Warner Bros. follows suit one day...

dragonstout wrote: As to how racist it is...certainly it was done with great affection toward black people, but "with great affection" certainly does not equal "not racist"

Yeah, I can get behind that.

BTW, now that you mention it, didn't WB release the Censored Eleven through the archives or something like that? I remember reading about it but it was along time ago so I don't know what happened.

Erik Twice wrote: BTW, now that you mention it, didn't WB release the Censored Eleven through the archives or something like that? I remember reading about it but it was along time ago so I don't know what happened.

Not as far as I know...bootlegs are all over the place, of course, but the quality is atrocious...if anyone knows where to find a GOOD DVD of Coal Black, let me know.

There are no good DVD releases of it, but a restored version has been made in some format for film festival consideration, per Wikipedia.

I never was a big animation guy, and from skimming a few threads here you guys are going way deeper into analyzing the medium than I expected, but I just spent about 4 hours reading this guy's run through all of the Disney Canon films. (Edit: I didn't read every review in 4 hours, but jumped around to periods/films of interest)

What was really interesting was the goings ons in the studio and how it affected/created the various eras of Disney's animated films.

Anyway, don't know if y'all are interested, but here it is:
movieglut.blogspot.com/2010/01/disney-animation.html

Erik Twice wrote:

Dogmatix wrote: Erik, I'm not sure why you think this cartoon doesn't make sense if you write it down.

Oh no, what I mean is that it isn't propelled foward by rational thought, but by emotions. The entire short is increasingly absurdist and, while accurate, saying it's a short where Daffy sings with a group of movie caricatures isn't telling the whole story.

BTW, I thought Daffy was imitating Danny Kaye, given the book title and all. Wikipedia says so too, but it's Wikipedia so who knows.

Ah, gotcha. As for the Danny Kaye/Daffy thing, it's a physical imitation, but it's not the whole story here. That pompadour tuft of blonde is straight Danny Kaye. The voicing in bit you linked is classic "Mad Russian" (like references to the Lucky Strike "So round, so firm..." jingle, IIRC, it actually pops up a lot in WB cartoons--you'll know it by the "how dew yew doooooo" greeting) and the scat bit is pretty classic Calloway (as is the zoot suit). Cab was a favorite for studio music shorts because he was pretty flamboyant and a hell of a good showman; and, to be honest, also because he was so light-skinned [and I'd swear they powdered his face to make him damn near white in a number of shorts, too], he was considered more "acceptable". "High yellow" performers like Lena Horne were always preferred to their darker-skinned contemporaries in anything targeting white audiences.)

I *loved* all the various "book" shorts that WB produced.

Another favorite for me are the Gene Deitch-era Tom & Jerry cartoons from the early 1960s. They're an utterly bizarre detour in the history of T&J that bridged the way more famous long runs by Hanna-Barbera and then Chuck Jones.

Here's an entertaining fan-dub version that combines a Deitch T&J with "The Court of the Crimson King" that I think is pretty cool.

Dogmatix wrote: Another favorite for me are the Gene Deitch-era Tom & Jerry cartoons from the early 1960s. They're an utterly bizarre detour in the history of T&J that bridged the way more famous long runs by Hanna-Barbera and then Chuck Jones.

I really like the Deitch-era Tom and Jerry. Not so much because of the animation (which I find a little hacky at times) but just because it's like I'm having a dream with Tom and Jerry in them. They make about that much sense anyway.