TURИ

repoman wrote: The use of the word may not technically but anachronistic but it sure the hell is unusual if not singular. I would challenge you to find any single use of the word in reference to the Revolution in anything other than a very academic military text if even then.

The modern connotation elicited by that word is directly tied to the fighting in the Middle East.

I can say that throughout undergrad and graduate studies, I saw it used with regularity, especially in primary documents.

Insurgent is a pretty common term far outside of the Middle East and people fighting there.

But I'm also a pinko traitor who doesn't believe in absolute morality, so I also think that how individuals and governments are classified is 100% relative. So who knows.

Language changes all of the time in any case. The English language is not a static language where the meaning of words remains the same for all time. Just look at gay and queer, words co opted by a social liberation movement that now, in general, mean something quite different from their original meanings.

Language is a living evolving structure, often socially defined. Traitor, insurgent, freedom fighter all have meanings dependent on the context. Words are never in isolation of context.

Well that's my take on the topic as an anarchic syndicalist.

Frankly, "insurgent" sounds like one of those meaning-neutral words that newscasters try to use to avoid putting moral judgment into their coverage. Recently Illegal Immigrants became Undocumented Immigrants. In my opinion the more a phrase is used the less independent meaning it carries, but I think Insurgent isn't terribly damning in any particular direction.

S.

SuperflyTNT wrote:

You lost me. AR-15's in the American Revolutionary War?

I'm betting that Sag's talking about Sleepy Hollow. The Headless Horseman is running around with an AR-15, waving a sword around, and short one head. I liked the show, though. It ain't True Detective, but I liked it.

Sagrilarus wrote:

Schweig! wrote:

Sagrilarus wrote: What shall we call those American red coats?

Patriots.

Shut up, Hessian.

If the royalists had won, then today, they would be the patriots, rebels would be terrorists, and Hessians would not have a bad reputation.

Wait no, the French actually did help you guys in your little revolution and you absolutely hate the French today for whatever reason. I'd rather be a Hessian then.

Mexico helped us more than the French in many ways, and yet we treat Mexicans like second-class citizens in many localities, and their entry into our "meliting pot of freedom" is looked upon with disgust and disdain.

SuperflyTNT wrote: Mexico helped us more than the French in many ways, and yet we treat Mexicans like second-class citizens in many localities, and their entry into our "meliting pot of freedom" is looked upon with disgust and disdain.

They would pour so many spices into that pot that no American could eat from it any more!

Joking aside, Mexico was part of Spain back then and Spain helped the revolution on about the same level as France.

Yep.

The French offered direct expertise in the form of seasoned officers. The Compte du Rochambeau took over the American army to bust Yorktown. He and Washington rode through Annapolis about three mile from here, on what's now called General's Highway. That help plus their Naval assistance was huge. Not completely out the the goodness of their heart mind you, but huge.

The Dutch offered money and still own a major chunk of U.S. bonds from rolloing over that investment.

The Hessians have a good reputation here as fine combatants who got paid by the other side. They captured Charleston when British troops couldn't. Again, they brought expertise.

S.

I was always under the impression that Hessians were despised as especially cruel, course, and money grubbing (being mercenaries). I could be wrong. Been a long time since I read a history of the Revolution but that's what I remember.

Anyway, saw the second episode and I liked it better than the first. The guy playing the Ranger Major Roberts (?) is doing a fine job. I like villains that aren't complete dupes and that have a believable motivation. And are menacing...and he is menacing.

I also like how the captured British dude was really strong during the interrogation. Not giving up and mocking his captors. Good stuff.

OH! And notice how the "N" in Turn is written in the Cyrillic style....

Coincidence?