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When did you first notice that Star Wars sucks?
It's dramatic when a character makes an important decision and follows through.
In Star Wars, Luke decides to leave Uncle Owen's dirt farm in search of glory and alcoholic galactic princesses.
At the climax of the film, Han decides to save Luke and join the rebel alliance (since this happens at the climax, it accidentally turns Han into the hero of the trilogy, even though Luke was supposed to be that).
In the Phantom Menace, nobody makes an important decision, ever. The characters never learn anything about themselves, or grow or change. You might argue that Qui Gon decided to take Anakin off Tatooine, but did he learn anything about himself? Did Qui Gon grow as a result of the decision? When Anakin blows up the thing that controls the robots, it was -- as others on this thread have noted -- an unlikely accident, rather than bravery or resolve that saves the day.
Maybe Lucas needed everything in the prequels to seem predestined, so that Darth Vader wasn't so purely evil, just tragic, and so that Vader's decision to defy Palpatine in Return of the Jedi is that much more of a distinctive moment. But the result is something like 6 hours of dramatically inert prequel movies.
That's why, sometimes, backstory should remain backstory.
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- Black Barney
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- Mr Skeletor
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Bullwinkle wrote:
No, Barney's right. This is a fucking cinematic crime. The guy who wrote it needs to spend a few years in prison. He can share a cell with the same prick who wrote Terminator 3.Mr Skeletor wrote:
Grow some balls you baby.Black Barney wrote: It's like I strongly dislike the screenwriter of Alien 3 because Aliens is my favourite movie of all time and now the ending is kinda ruined because I know that Newt and Hicks don't wake up.
Bullshit. The cinematic crime was Cameron's, who thought that since Ripley was a woman he needed to give her a 'family unit' complete with child and husband. "Oh look, Ripley has her daughter back, now she can live happily ever after." - that's unbelievably lame shit that brings the whole movie down. The series didn't need a stupid mother angle (at least the 'father angle' in terminator made more sense in terms of story) and Neut brought NOTHING ELSE to the picture and was a crap character. Hicks was just another body so his death meant little either.
The irony is that for all of geek nations bitching about the offing of her lame character, that act in Alien 3 gave Neut more meaning and purpose then she otherwise had. Her death haunts the entire film and impacts Ripleys growth like no other event in the alien films. Having her in the film would have stunk the shit out of it (you can imagine awsome scenes where teenage neut shoots her first gun! Fucking badass! Not) and Barneys idea of just having her sit the film out because she is at home renders the characters UNBELIEVEABLY pointless.
Killing her was the best thing they could have done.
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- Mr Skeletor
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Juniper wrote: At the climax of the film, Han decides to save Luke and join the rebel alliance (since this happens at the climax, it accidentally turns Han into the hero of the trilogy, even though Luke was supposed to be that).
I'll agree with 100% of what you wrote with the exception of this. The OT isn't perfect, but one thing it nailed 100% was how to use its archtypes.
Luke was always the hero of the OT, and remained so throughout the whole thing.
He destroys the deathstar (the main climax of the film, moreso then Vader.)
His confrontation with Vader was the climax and biggest event of Empire, overshadowing even Han being carbonated.
And he gets the main villan fight in Jedi - if anything Jedi fucks up by having Han do nothing and not even really needed. Does he do anything of note in that film?
Yeah, everyone loves Han over Luke, but people have always been more into the rogue then the main protagonist since stories first started. Just comes with the territory of the type.
If you want to see an example of where the rogue becomes the hero of a story, look at Pirates (though I'm basing that on fuzzy memory.)
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If you grew up in the 70s you know what a big deal Star Wars action figures were and they were for KIDS.
Also, look at all the sanitised violence and language. Silly rabbit, these are kids movies.
Were there too many muppets in Jedi? Maybe. But I had no complaints when I was 12. Of course, for adults Empire is also gonna be the go-to film- it is more sophisticatd and darker and made by an altogether better director than Lucas ever was.
To respond to the original question of when did SW begin to suck. Most definitely the new films.
On a side note, I was recently suprised that Christiansen can actually act, seeing for the first time Shattered Glass, where he plays a journalist who used to work for the New Republic
- I was shocked it was the same guy. So chalking him up as not as bad as I thought.
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clockwirk wrote: You can't base any opinion about someones ability to act on the prequel films. Natalie Portman looks like a total hack in them, and Ewen MacGregor isn't much better. Lucas seems to have the ability to direct all of the acting ability away from the actors.
I didn t: I was thinking Jumper too....
And yes, I blame the directer. A shitty director combined with shitty dialogue and script will undo even a very talented actor.
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