Batman vs. Superman trailer

Green Lantern wrote:

Michael Barnes wrote: God fucking damn it, is Zack Snyder unaware that it is not 1997 anymore? Anger anger anger, grimace rage. Angsty angst. Negative ass bullshit. No superheroes here folks- just damaged, conflicted, selfish assholes.

You did catch the Nolan Bat flicks, right? They are just as guilty of this as you think Snyder is, chap. Especially that last turd in the series that had Batman moping in his pajamas for eight years.

You are dead wrong, GL.

If you can't see that there is a fundamental difference in films that handle darker subject matter in a mature, sophisticated way and those that handled it in a juvenile, facile way...I don't know what to tell you.

And there is always, in the Nolan films, an uplifting, positive message. In the first, Bruce Wayne overcomes teenage-level anger and rage uses personal tragedy as a catalyst to become a hero. In the second, anarchic, completely amoral evil reigns until a hero confronts it head-on for the good of everyone. In the third, Bruce has to overcome selfishness and self-pity to re-emerge as the inspirational hero he had become.

All of the above is a lot different than the kinds of "edgy" bullshit being plied in the BvsS trailer. Shit is so 1995. "False God", give me a break.

NONE of the great Superman stories that I can think of are those where he broods, kills people or is morally conflicted. Witness "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow" or "All-Star Superman". Snyder completely does not understand the character at a fundamental level.

Either that or he somehow got confused and thinks that Superman is actually Miracleman.

I never have any interest in Batman and Superman together in any format whatsoever, mainly summed up by the Angel Summoner and BMX Bandit skits by Mitchell and Webb:

NEW TRAILER!

Say what you will about the "Bale voice," the voice modulator in this trailer sounds fucking dumb. I know they want to go for something different, but we've already seen the Batman that makes sense and this robotic drone really doesn't work. It's distracting.

And that " Do you bleed?" line? The worst. Zack the Hack wanted to show everyone that he likes DKR, juvenile shit like that is not at all what that book brought to the table.

Zack does not understand this, and that is his biggest problem.

I think that the modulator is there to hide the fact that Bale will always be Batman to a great many people, and some Bostonite's accent is NOT Bale's voice, so they had to do something to try to bring the two together. Maybe Affleck (I always think of the AFLAC duck when I read his name) can't do "dark and grimy". He seems like a really manic, "upbeat" person so maybe he just can't act "dark".

Who knows.

In any event, lots of people will see it, and lots of people will like and hate it, and in the end, it's entertainment. Who cares. These characters are fictional. It's not like it's a film about Gandhi where Sly Stallone plays the role AS RAMBO, mowing down British troops with gatling guns.

Which I would watch, totally.

JonJacob wrote: Zack does not understand this, and that is his biggest problem.

Seems to be the problem with all of his movies. He reads all the right stuff, but it seems like he only understands what's on the surface level. He misses the subtle stuff, which is often where the point lies.

Said it before, saying it again: Fuck this movie. Aside from everything that's been said already, DKR is _the_ Batman story of all Batman stories. You don't reference key parts of it as if it were a work you can pick and choose from. You either do it right or you don't do it at all.

In a lot of respects, Affleck is a great choice for not dark batman. But he's cast as dark batman.

I think Superman vs. Batman comic is far more interesting as a conceptual exploration of what it means to be Superman. I think the "vs Batman" conflict is window dressing to fit the whole thing into a comic book. It's virtually impossible to film.

It kills me that they didn't just go straight ahead justice league movie as a first shot instead with a lighter tone.

So disappointing. DC needs to give Bruce Timm and Paul Dini veto power over their movies and tv shows, to ensure that their characters don't drown themselves in self-important grim bullshit like Man of Steel or this Batman vs Superman trailer. Timm and Dini understand that the DC Universe needs to be about heroism and triumph of good over evil, even in a relatively dark setting like Gotham City. Their DC animated universe was outstanding, especially their work with Batman and with the Justice League.

Couldn't agree more Shellhead. I hold Dark Knight Returns up on a pedestal like a lot of other comic fans, but Miller started a bummer trend of portraying Batman as a psychopath vigilante that fights crime almost on accident. I understand he's a darker character but I would still prefer that he actually want to help people and have some lighter moments every now and then. I love that in TAS Wayne is spending a lot of his time on charity projects when he's not fighting crime. I want more of that.

I agree, Shellhead.

What's interesting to me is the shift of perspectives. In the comics of the 90s, Miller and Moore were trying to point out how ridiculous these characters were, and how anyone who did this in real life would be a psychopath, a criminal, or both. Instead, that backfired and people loved the characters even more. It's kinda like in Wall Street where the villain, Gordon Gecko, somehow became the role model for yuppies.

Nolan did an admirable job in making Batman seem grounded and realistic. But that approach just isn't going to work for Superman. He's a fantastical character that requires too much suspension of disbelief to fit into a realistic setting.

Green Lantern wrote:

Michael Barnes wrote: God fucking damn it, is Zack Snyder unaware that it is not 1997 anymore? Anger anger anger, grimace rage. Angsty angst. Negative ass bullshit. No superheroes here folks- just damaged, conflicted, selfish assholes.

You did catch the Nolan Bat flicks, right? They are just as guilty of this as you think Snyder is, chap. Especially that last turd in the series that had Batman moping in his pajamas for eight years.

Right on!

People saying there is nothing heroic about it, well, duh.

What is heroic about a billionaire that goes about beating and torturing people and uses his money to develop increasingly more sophisticated killing machines?

“Superheroes” flicks are about as far right as it gets. They have an alienist, hygienist, final solution to society. To beat and lock up everyone. We root for some often rich, male, with a personal tragedy, not to change society and improve everyone’s living, but to maintain the status quo.

Even the villains are more humane, they are in it for money, or whatever, something to change their lives or others. The only motivation Batman has is to fuck people up.

Batman dedicates extra effort to beating up the mentally ill. Gotham would probably be better off with Doc Samson fighting crime.

Fuck yeah they are. Punisher...my favorite...is a sociopathic revenge machine who is far less concerned with crime fighting as killing every last atom of the mob. And when he's done with the mob, then he has to go after whatever bad guys he can to quench his bloodlust. He's fucking DEXTER, but less neat.

Spiderman, Superman, Batman, Iron Man.....some of the most iconic of all supers...what do they have in common? Father figure stolen away from them too young, and they're bitter on an existential level. Punisher....family got taken away and now it's bitterness and revenge.

I don't like the way Batman beats up crack dealers, rapists, and murderers either. He should just ignore them so the victims can fend for themselves like his parents did. Don't even get me started on him using money/intimidation against organized criminals who don't go to jail because they use money/intimidation.