Can you still love the George?

Another interesting article is this one, which gets into how much Marcia Lucas influenced the original Star Wars.

www.news.com.au/finance/business/media/t...d93fce23b06e98805ffb

Egg Shen wrote: Ha! In the back of my head Jupiter Ascending was one of the few movies that popped into my head when I wrote that sentence. That and Pacific Rim specifically. I was like...nah, no studio was stupid enough to give the Wachowski's more than $150 million for that idea. Damn a 176 million??? In any case...I think they've officially ruined big expensive new IPs for everyone for a few years.

If you have clout you can do it. Abrams certainly could after this (and may have been able to before as well). Avatar cost a fortune (~ 240 mil), but Cameron has the clout. Then there's Inception (160$ million), Elysium (115 mil, and it may not be a good film but it is his own world and it's not nearly as bad as the critics would have you believe) but you don't need that much money necessarily. District 9 was a cool 30 mil.. it's certainly possible and people do it. But Abrams wanted to play in the Star Wars universe, understandable I guess. The first Matrix was 60 mil which I'm not sure how much that would be today, maybe double at most? In any case 200 mil is a lot but you hardly need that much to be creative and come up with your own world to tell your own stories.

I'm sorry, but this sudden rash of Prequel "reappraisal" and apologia is total bullshit. Anyone that says anything about "wishing that TFA were more like the Prequels" or suggesting that somehow those three pictures were somehow misunderstood works of art by an artist trying to be some kind of maverick is full of it. This is selective memory at its best. I remember as far back as the very first review I read of The Phantom Menace, from an early charity screening, the reaction was this weird kind of "It was pretty good! I guess! I mean, it's Star Wars, right?" NO ONE, not even die hard fans at the time, were completely on board with anything in the prequels so you just kind of clung to the good things. This is exactly what is going on right now. There is no reason at all, however, to view those films as anything less than the heartless disasters that they were. Which does not mean that there aren't redeeming qualities (like "Duel of the Fates", General Grievous, the battle with Darth Maul, the space battle at the beginning of Revenge of the Sith, the pod race, etc.). But they simply were badly written, badly directed and badly produce films. Star Wars or not.

People are also casually forgetting that the Prequels came out after The Matrix and contemporarily with the Lord of the Rings films. Both of which completely made a mockery out of Lucas' shitty filmmaking (but not world building) abilities. Those films were cultural touchpoints of that era. The Prequels were- and remain- a laughing stock. Regardless of contrarian opinions that Lucas was kind of "out there", flawed genius.

And I'm saying all of this as someone has sort of lukewarmly defended the Prequels in the past. But the last time I watched them, I found myself cringing at how TERRIBLE so much of these movies are. "Death sticks". The battle in the arena at Geonosis, where you can see extras in the background basically doing sword katas alone against a green screen to make it look like there's a mass battle going on. That whole Willy Wonka business in the battle droid factory. The battle droids in general. Everything to do with Watto. The fart jokes. Jake Lloyd AND Hayden Christensen completely botching the most important role in the films with HORRENDOUS line-readings. Character after character that strains to be remembered, but barely register. Ewan McGregor pretty much resigning himself to a career nosedive by the end of the third film. Oceans of FAKENESS and ARTIFICIALITY.

We keep saying that Lucas lost the thread, but it's more than that. He lost the heart. He did not give a flipping shit about the Prequels and it shows. I would say that by the mid 1990s, he didn't give a flipping shit about Star Wars at all and was likely at that point just resentful and tired of it since it was his legacy- and not a film like Taxi Driver, 2001, The Godfather and so forth. The motives for doing the Special Editions- which is really where I think the argument for Lucas as an "artist" starts to fall apart- are multiple, but the fact that he as an "artist" didn't trust his original work and felt like it had to be updated with a bunch of unasked for garbage (remember the Max Rebo Band fondly) speaks volumes. He didn't give a shit about it. But he did, I guess, feel like he needed to do something to keep it saleable.

It's also pretty clear that he, at that point, didn't understand that his creation had outgrown his vision and become something more. At that point, it was the Thrawn trilogy. the TIE Fighter and X-Wing games. Dark Forces. Tons of comics and novels. All these spaces were explored, grown from his seeds. And all were superior to anything he was capable of coming up with himself. Because that stuff was all made by people that loved Star Wars and grew up with it. Lucas only grew to resent it. Which shouldn't be too surprising considering it was hardly some kind of artistic statement at all. It was a commercial product from the very minute that he pitched it to 20th Century Fox.

So this backpedaling- not to mention his whining about the "white slavers" and so on- is just a load of crap.

For all of the "I wish it were a totally new story" bitching- which again, completely misses the point of it specifically being a remix of A New Hope, I don't see a lot of folks saying "I wish it were more like The Clone Wars". Because THAT is what the prequels should have been- Star Wars stories with heart and intelligence taking the core concepts into new areas. And really kind of expanding the maturity level and depth of it all. Dave Filoni and the guys and gals that made that show pretty much rescued all of the good stuff that "artist" George Lucas created in the Prequels and made it GOOD. They understood Star Wars and made his new stuff work in that context instead of in the context of three really shitty, completely plastic movies. They made Darth Maul awesome. They made the Battle Droids and the Trade Federation work. They made General Grievous even better. They more or less rewrote Anakin to be a really fucking great character. They made the Clones compelling instead of just scores of CGI models. They created Ahsoka Tano, a truly original Star Wars character. They still managed to touch base with Lando, Chewbacca, Tarkin, and other OT characters and settings. They even showed that Jar Jar Binks could work- if the writing wasn't fucking awful.

Rebels is almost as good. Once again, others make Star Wars better than Lucas does.

So stop kidding yourself that the Prequels were misunderstood and that they are in any way superior to TFA, because it just isn't the truth. It's contrarianism, counter-programming against a tide of hype, expectation, and popular reception.

Yep, I think that just about says it.

Who are you arguing with dude?

I'm just piling on, but that article was just Slate-style contrarian bullshit.

I'll always thank Lucas for making Star Wars 77, even though others polished it into something workable. Beyond that, I can't imagine having to pick between Lucas and Disney. That's like asking which eye I'd prefer to have a pencil jammed in. Is Lucas right about Disney being a bunch of soulless suits looking primarily towards brand marketing and merchandise sales? Absolutely. Does that make Lucas into someone who's made a movie worth watching since 1977? Not at all. This is like watching a GOP debate where two millionaires argue over who understands the plight of the little guy more.

Best illustration of this idiot slap-flight I know of is this: in the newest Previews (the catalog that comic shops order from) there's a 208-page comics adaptation of the original trilogy. There is neither a writer nor an artist credited for it.

I dont think you can really add anything more to what Michael said. Absolutely spot on. It's hard to feel sorry for someone that made a squadillion dollars doing something he presumably loved at the time, but he doesnt seem like hes happy with his legacy does it. The worst thing about the prequels was probably making people question if it actually meant that Lucas didnt do any of the important and good bits in the original trilogy because it is so hard to believe its the same person doing it.

lala wrote: The worst thing about the prequels was probably making people question if it actually meant that Lucas didnt do any of the important and good bits in the original trilogy because it is so hard to believe its the same person doing it.

Some great filmmakers have incredible longevity (Kurosawa, Hitchcock, Polanski and Spielberg come to mind) and some great filmmakers seem tohave a much, much shorter half-life (Coppola). I think Lucas just falls into the latter category. It's not fair to erase his earlier accomplishments because of his later turds.

Also, just to balance some of the vitriol / heavy criticism (which isn't directed at the post I quoted), I'll always be a fan of his because I like when rich dudes are philanthropic and he's definitely been that.

Well Barnes, now you've made me want to finally check out The Clone Wars, which I see is conveniently on Netflix.

It's an awesome, awesome show. Avoid the theatrical pilot. The first episode is kind of so-so, but then it hits the ground running. And the theatrical "pilot" is really kind of best avoided, to be honest. Episodes 2-4 (the "Malevolence" arc) are pretty awesome. #5, "Rookies" is really good too.

More of the best- but note that most of the shows are part of multi-episode arcs so these are the jump-off points for some major storylines:

"Lair of Grievous"- Kit Fisto does all of the cool stuff he couldn't in the prequels.
"Holocron Heist"- Cad Bane! Written by Paul Dini.
"The Mandalore Plot"- Introduces a bunch of stuff about the Mandalorians, including Duchess Satine, Pre Viszla and Death Watch.
"The Zillo Beast"- Total Kaiju movie homage. Yep. In Star Wars.
"Nightsisters"- Asajj Ventress gets caught up with the Nightsisters on Dathomir.
"Darkness on Umbara"- If you watch only one show or arc, make it this one. Stunning and sophisticated.
"Deception"- Obi-Wan goes into deep cover as a bounty hunter...after faking his death!
"Brothers"- Savage Opress finds his insane brother...Darth Maul. REALLY good show.
"The Gathering"- A fun one where Ahsoka and Yoda make lightsabers with the kids...but they run afoul of pirates.

There's one whose title escapes me, but it was about a Clone deserter...very, very cool. You have so much to look forward to...THIS is Star Wars as you like it, but the format gives it a lot more room. The tone can be kind of all over the place- some of the shows are VERY dark ("Brothers" is not for kids, the Umbara arc gets into some very serious subject matter) but others have the lightness and playfulness you might expect from SW. It's really compelling- you've got two sides in a war that are basically just throwing disposable armies at each other without any real sense of morality or even purpose. The Trade Federation aren't evil, they just have a different agenda. The Republic isn't evil either, but it's like they are sliding into fascism through the whole thing, complete with the Jedi acting as these kind of jack-booted thugs/enforcers. There is a lot of questioning of authority and of beliefs, a lot of shifting positions. Just watch Ahsoka evolve over the course of the series. It is probably the best character writing SW has ever seen.

SO MANY GOOD THINGS...so many scenes where you'll just be like "DAMN".

I think the financial and technological restraints placed on him in 1976 did a lot of good. Once those limitations were removed he became Uncle Charlie at your wedding's open bar, drinking "to get his money's worth." If I had to describe the prequels with one word, it would be Excess. There's these moments of interest, moments of good story telling (and I'm talking seconds here, not minutes) that promptly get buried under a wave of complete bullshit. Return of the Jedi hints at what is to come, significantly more cluttered and complex than Star Wars. You can see the "more is more" concept working its way in, but there's still enough restraint to keep the film on track. Fifteen years later that was gone. He could do anything he wanted with CGI within budget, so he did.

I'd be curious to read the script he had prepared for this film. Wouldn't want to see the movie, but I'd like to read the script.

Michael Barnes wrote: There's one whose title escapes me, but it was about a Clone deserter...very, very cool.

Just watched it last week, it's called - appropriately - The Deserter.

Also Boba Fett infiltrating the Clones Cadets in "Death Trap".

I liked how at some point, one clone commander discovers that Jar-Jar's alleged clumsiness is apparently for show and that he's smarter than he looks. Or maybe he's just really really lucky despite being clumsy.

I'll just leave this here, regarding Jar Jar... www.reddit.com/comments/3qvj6w

Ska_baron wrote: I'll just leave this here, regarding Jar Jar... www.reddit.com/comments/3qvj6w

Damn. I knew Jar Jar was supposed to be a Sith lord and all and that they pulled the plug on that because he was so unpopular but this is quite the revelation you are dropping!!!!!!!

Good stuff, thanks for posting that,