Stepping off the train.

There is no such thing as wasting time. It is NOT a requirement to be productive or useful, only to exist. If I choose to exist in a fantasy world or by communicating with fantasy FB friends, then so be it. If I choose to never meet another living soul, I would be happy with the decision. Embrace your ability to control your own fate.

Every second of your life that you are alive is never wasted. All experiences are valuable. You may wish you had done differently but you did not, so revel in your freedom. It is part of you and there is nothing you need to change.

Brian Regan once said, "you know if you really just think about it, all we're all doing is buying time."

He might have said wasting time but I think the point is the same. He then said he'd love for an airline pilot to announce that in the middle of a flight.

I'm going to disagree.

I could spend all my free time watching TV, but don't I owe a better existence to friends and family? I believe so. Sure, I can waste my time in needless selfish pursuits, but do I have the right to do so if it impacts others negatively? Should I say 'F' it!' and play MMOs all day sinking my career, or pound sodas and big macs all day becoming a health burden to others down the road? Or should I try to find _some_ time to improve myself and, by extension, the quality of life of my friends and family?

Granted the answers are for each of us to choose, but If someone feels they aren't living in accordance to how they'd like I encourage them not to revel, but hope they can make the changes they desire.

No, you don't have a moral obligation to enrichen other's lives. You will lead a better life for it if you do, but your life experience is your own.

Saying that person would be a negative to society is horseshit. That's like these idiots in the streets that say that if I don't sign their little petition against animal cruelty, I'm as bad as those abusing the animals. I don't think so, honey.

...but wanna fuck anyway?

I think Mr White is on to something there, positing against the pure (and in my opinion purely theoretical) existentialist freedom the idea that there are some Kantian categorical imperatives surrounding our choices, whether or not we claim we're beyond morality or that it doesn't apply. If we make decisions to be sloths in ways that would royally fuck the rest of society if every lazy bastard did the same thing, we're making choices that contradict our base idea for what we need society to be. Unless you're a nihilist, then fuck it, I guess.

Black Barney wrote: Dave, r u single ?

Without getting too much into personal information... no, I am not. I'll just say that I don't believe porn consumption has had an externally noticeable effect on my private and professional relationships, and I don't have the usually cited reasons for quitting. Most of my reasons are all internal to me. One part of it is that I have a daughter turning 12 soon, and she will increasingly be interacting with boys who consume porn themselves, and I don't want to find myself in a position of hypocrisy.

Black Barney wrote: Saying that person would be a negative to society is horseshit.

I hope this isn't what you're taking from what I wrote. I never claimed this.

Like I tried to stress, it's up for each of us to choose, but if someone wants to make changes that means they are obviously unhappy (for whatever reason, but in this case time wasting), I don't think telling them to revel in it and not try to change is the best advice.

However, by extension, when my poor choices begin to impact others then it is no longer just 'my' life experience. My lifestyle has begun to intrude and there I have no right. So, yes, I do believe, that in a sense I do have a moral obligation to others.

I don't think you'd want me shadowboxing at the same time your head shares the same space do you? I mean, it's _my_ life. Can't I do what I want?

Mr. White wrote:
I don't think you'd want me shadowboxing at the same time your head shares the same space do you? I mean, it's _my_ life. Can't I do what I want?

I honestly have no idea what you mean by this.

When I said I thought you were inferring that doing nothing has a negative impact on society, I was interpreting this:

Sure, I can waste my time in needless selfish pursuits, but do I have the right to do so if it impacts others negatively? Should I say 'F' it!' and play MMOs all day sinking my career, or pound sodas and big macs all day becoming a health burden to others down the road?

My experience has been when I show up to events that I didn't want to go to, I have a negative impact on people there or people I'm with. When I go to things I want to go to, I'd like to think it has a positive impact on others.


Dave, I'm honestly interested in that subject but I understand that it's personal so if you don't want to talk about it, I get it. Asking if you were single was important because giving up pr0n is vastly different if you're single or not. On your point about the daughter (I have a 4-yr old myself), Dr. Phil (who I don't recognize as an authority on the matter) is super against pr0n. His take is always, "that's somebody's daughter you're watching" which is ridiculous on several levels.

It's good to be in the headspace that your daughter's courters are in so you understand them and can better prepare your daughter for their motivations. You mayplay a bigger role in that than her mom.

Outside of having a kid and this weird hypocrisy thing you're bringing up, earlier in December I met an ex-colleague who had not just given up pr0n but masterbation altogether. I know, it's probably bullshit. But he said that in doing so, he's noticed that he approaches women much more liberally and confidently than he did before. In his mind, it's hormonal cuz he's not getting off so he strongly believes there's some biology behind his theory.

Anyway, I guess what I'm trying to say is how about giving an update in 3 weeks to let us know how that's going and what behaviors you've noticed, if any.

Shadowboxing is a form of boxing exercise where you are rapidly throwing punches in the air at about the height and distance of your opponents head.

Black Barney wrote: My experience has been when I show up to events that I didn't want to go to, I have a negative impact on people there or people I'm with. When I go to things I want to go to, I'd like to think it has a positive impact on others.

This example is a big difference from what I'm trying to get across. I'm not saying you have a moral obligation to _please_ everyone, but we have a moral obligation not to negatively affect others, unless, like Frohike says, we're nihilists or prigs.

"that's somebody's daughter you're watching": Yeah, I've done enough things to enough daughters in real life that this doesn't phase me.

Black Barney wrote: But he said that in doing so, he's noticed that he approaches women much more liberally and confidently than he did before. In his mind, it's hormonal cuz he's not getting off so he strongly believes there's some biology behind his theory.

Yeah, there's a lot of stuff online about that, probably mostly BS just like all other "alpha" stuff. It could also be that it's easier to face women without that shameful secret part of that life. I suspect the placebo effect is also strong here.

Black Barney wrote: how about giving an update in 3 weeks to let us know how that's going and what behaviors you've noticed, if any.

Sure. I'm not expecting any big reveals, but we'll see...

Black Barney wrote: On your point about the daughter (I have a 4-yr old myself), Dr. Phil (who I don't recognize as an authority on the matter) is super against pr0n. His take is always, "that's somebody's daughter you're watching" which is ridiculous on several levels.

Playing devil's advocate here...

1) Who is an authority on the matter? What do they say? Why quote someone who we claim is not an authority?
2) His statement about that being someone's daughter is obviously true. I guess the question is whether the voyeur cares or not? Do I have that right? I'm not sure where I see a ridiculous level.

ThirstyMan wrote: There is no such thing as wasting time. It is NOT a requirement to be productive or useful, only to exist. If I choose to exist in a fantasy world or by communicating with fantasy FB friends, then so be it. If I choose to never meet another living soul, I would be happy with the decision. Embrace your ability to control your own fate.

Every second of your life that you are alive is never wasted. All experiences are valuable. You may wish you had done differently but you did not, so revel in your freedom. It is part of you and there is nothing you need to change.

This is a concept I struggle with. All experiences might be valuable but they are not all equal for all people. When I (I won't speak for others) try to 'better' myself I have specific experiences in my past to call upon. I know that jerking off feels good, playing video games feels good and is valuable in some way. I also know that if I record a song it might not be quite as pleasurable immediately (ok, take 5, this time I won't screw anything up!!) but the long term pay off is much more pleasurable than anything I get out of those other activities. Holding the finished album is what I'm going for in that experience.

Some experiences have that kind of long term benefit and those are the easy ones to dismiss or miss out on. The immediate gratification of jerking off or playing a game isn't a bad thing... but it's a thing I experience disproportionately compared to other things that I know will have more pay off further down the line. So while I kind of agree with you I think that creating an internal hierarchy for my pastimes is essential to having an enjoyable life that continues to be fulfilling further down the line.

Whether or not you find a particular experience beneficial for the you that you are trying to create is a very subjective and personal thing. When I say I have to stop wasting time doing X... people who do X shouldn't take offense at that statement because I am not them. That's me I'm talking about and I'm hopefully trying to make myself into someone different than they are trying to do for themselves.

As for the porn thing, I don't like or support porn at all. That's a personal thing. The industry disgusts me and I feel that the few times I did engage in it I don't like what it did to my brain. Never mind exploiting someones daughter, I don't like what it does to me, how exploits me, what it thinks about me. Besides, I get way more out of my imagination.

Mr. White wrote:

Black Barney wrote: On your point about the daughter (I have a 4-yr old myself), Dr. Phil (who I don't recognize as an authority on the matter) is super against pr0n. His take is always, "that's somebody's daughter you're watching" which is ridiculous on several levels.

Playing devil's advocate here...

1) Who is an authority on the matter? What do they say? Why quote someone who we claim is not an authority?
2) His statement about that being someone's daughter is obviously true. I guess the question is whether the voyeur cares or not? Do I have that right? I'm not sure where I see a ridiculous level.

Jeff,

When I say 'authority on the matter' I didn't mean pr0n, but rather the psychology of pron usage. I wasn't clear, that was my bad.

On your second point, he's completely removing the humanity and freedom-to-choose of the pr0n star. She's an adult and she's making a choice (she's not a prostitute). By wording it the way he is, he's trying to make it sound like child pr0n which is totally inappropriate and off the mark.

dave wrote: Porn. On Day 13, and it feels like it's gonna stick.

This made me almost spew my jelly out of my nose, man. In combination with that avatar of a bum on a stick

JonJacob wrote: As for the porn thing, I don't like or support porn at all. That's a personal thing. The industry disgusts me and I feel that the few times I did engage in it I don't like what it did to my brain. Never mind exploiting someones daughter, I don't like what it does to me, how exploits me, what it thinks about me. Besides, I get way more out of my imagination.

I agree with you to an extent, and there's certainly an element of that in my decision, but "The industry" is extremely broad. Most of what I found most compelling was the most "agreeable" stuff (e.g., real-life couple on webcam).

I'm dealing with something bigger than just porn here. I've been struggling with dealing with my compulsions ever since I hit puberty; internet porn has been by far the most discreet and least frustrating, and has removed much of the baggage of what I dealt with before it existed. It made it too easy to not deal with. I have to find healthier ways to deal with it (e.g., I'm not going back to humping vacuum cleaners). Not loading up xhamster is a milestone, but it's just the start.