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Indiana Jones 5
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- Sagrilarus
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The fourth movie began with the premise that the occult is a given, a common thing. The first film in particular but the third as well, do the opposite. Jones is a rational guy that is dealing with the surprise of irrational things. That's what gave the occult aspects their power. The fourth film more or less gave up on that and everyone takes the aliens thing as a given.
I don't particularly like cold war stuff. Not a very interesting time for archaeology or the occult.
I detest aliens-have-been-here-for-centuries stuff.
So the fourth movie was a complete wash-out for me just on concept. Short of having Jennifer Aniston in it it couldn't have been a worse fit for me. But the real problem with it was Ford again, because they had to go into the 1950s to account for his age. The first half of the 20th century is a much more interesting time for his kind of thing, an age when archaeology was dominated by a few big names doing very big things. The political aspects of a world at war, twice, certainly offers a far richer piece of ground for the writers too.
Get a new lead actor. Start in the early 1920s.
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The interesting thing to compare to regarding Star Wars, are the similarities between Force Awakens and Crystal Skull. They both tried really hard to tap into that nostalgic love. Hey, there's the Ark! Remember that? Look, it's Marion! You liked her, right? And they had a kid! Isn't that great? And here's a snake gag. And here's someone dying horribly. And here's a bizarre, booby-trapped, maze-like tomb. That's all IJ is about, right?
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Yeah, the awfulness of Episode 1 took some time to solidify, I think. I actively disliked Crystal Skull in the theatre seat though. It was just... bad. The fridge thing, with the dumb gopher at the end? Shia Laboeuf trying to be The Fonz. Those dumb-ass monkeys. It all looked like shit. Like a money grab and I was pissed that it worked. I'll catch this on Netflix or whatever.Gregarius wrote: People certainly enjoy crapping on the SW Prequels now, but I'm pretty sure people crapped on Crystal Skull from the beginning. Both are pretty bad, so I don't know if it matters which is worse.
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Sagrilarus wrote: Get a new lead actor. Start in the early 1920s.
This is the best way to go. At a fundamental level, the Indiana Jones movies are a particular brand of pulp action that only fits the 1920s and 1930s. After that, the world is too well-explored to feature the sort of wild natives, lost civilizations, and general exploration that fit the style of the movies. If Ford is playing Indy in this new movie, I fear that it will drag his timeline into the '60s, which is remembered for many things that have nothing to do with pulp action. But maybe Ford will be playing the grandfather of Indiana Jones, and they will use a new actor in the Indy role. That could work well, depending on quality of story, script, acting, etc.
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Killraven was the star of a short-lived but critically appreciated Marvel Comic that served as an unofficial sequel to The War of the Worlds, by H.G. Wells. This comic started with the idea that the Martians returned 100 years later and successfully conquered the Earth. Killraven was raised as a gladiator who competed in games sponsored by the Martian overlords, but he escaped and lead a Spartacus-style rebellion against the Martians.
Shang-Chi is an even better example of what I'm suggesting for Indiana Jones. Back during the very pulp era that Indiana Jones references, British writer Sax Rohmer wrote about the adventures of Sir Denis Nayland Smith, an adventurer who often clashed with Fu Manchu. Many years later, Marvel worked out a deal with the Rohmer Estate to use Fu Manchu as a recurring villain in a new series, Master of Kung-Fu. The title character was the heroic martial artist Shang-Chi, son of Fu Manchu turned MI-6 agent working for Sir Denis. Thanks to consistently good art and writing, MoKF lasted nearly a decade.
So maybe a new series of movies that start with the Indiana Jones concepts but spring in a new and modern direction could be great. Maybe Indy's grandson (or granddaughter) could be an expert on art who travels the world opposing art thieves and forgers. Or there is an alternate timeline where the Nazis conquered Europe and Indy's son is a freedom fighter. Or a descendant of the Jones family invents a method of exploring alternate realities and obtaining artifacts from lost civilizations. Or better yet, some new idea so cool that I can't even imagine it right now.
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[For the record I love Fury Road but I always have to scoff whenever I hear it touted as being "original." Calm down there, Waldo.]
How is it that I don't hate Crystal Skull? Aren't I supposed to hate everything? Ooooohhh, right, that whole refusal to go along with the Internet-based groupthink thing. Seriously, it's not Raiders, nor is it as iconic as Temple, but it really isn't that bad. I watched them all back to back once to see if I'm not crazy. Nope, it actually fits in _really_ well.
As stoked as I am for this, I know that the world is too cynical a place for Indy nowadays. Star Wars did make a boat load of money, but I know there's some idiotic complaints going on about that, too. The world doesn't deserve these movies anymore. I do not pretend to understand the mindset that these mouthbreathers walk into the theater with, but I swear, it has to be something going on in the back of their minds the whole time:
OH! LOOK, SOMETHING ILLOGICAL TAKING PLACE IN A STORY OF MAKE BELIEVE! I READ ABOUT THIS AHEAD OF TIME, EVERYONE ELSE WAS RIGHT. I MUST HATE THIS! I CAN'T WAIT TO HIT REDDIT WITH MY COMPLAINTS! MY VOICE MUST BE HEARD WITH THE OTHERS!
Fuck 'em. I've had it.
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I saw it opening night, before the chorus of "It's terrible" was started and you were branded a heretic for thinking other wise. I left thinking, "Well, it's not the best of the series, but it was an IJ movie for sure and it was fun to see him back in action. The opinion of the whole theater seemed to be the same.
It certainly isn't as bad as Episodes 1&2. I like Ep. 3 and make no apologies for doing so.
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- Michael Barnes
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Indy vs. Fu Manchu would be awesome...but that just would not fly in today's PC environment. If yo can't do the evil "Orient"/camp exoticism thing, Fu Manchu doesn't work.
I saw Crystal Skull and thought it was decent but yeah, not Raiders. Then I got online and saw that I was supposed to hate it. If I remember correctly, there were some arguments here about it with a prominent ex-member. I said back then and I'll say it again- if that same exact film came out in the 80s, nobody would have bitched about it like they did.
The fridge thing, I laughed. It was a gag in a fantasy film. It was not intended to be a factual documentary about what happens when a man in a refrigerator is in a nuclear explosion.
Here is yet another thing that demonstrates the sadness and emptiness of the Internet. Apparently there are "fan theories" (which is another way of saying "diarrhea") that Indy survived because he is immortal from drinking fronm the Grail. Come the fuck on. There doesn't have to be an explanation beyond "he's the hero. Of course he survives." I can assure you that at no point did they say in a script meeting "let's see if the audience can figure out this secret plot point".
The monkey thing, that was pretty dumb. But it is a way that monkeys got revenge on the audience for the dinner scene in ToD. My "fan theory".
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Josh Look wrote: Hold on, let me put on my fuckin' cranky old man pants for a sec and say, "What we need here are original ideas! Not these reboots/sequels of tried and true FUN properties! You know, like FURY ROAD, which totally didn't lift heavily from the previous entries in the series and definitely didn't revisit the long car chase with a tanker truck concept!"
[For the record I love Fury Road but I always have to scoff whenever I hear it touted as being "original." Calm down there, Waldo.]
How is it that I don't hate Crystal Skull? Aren't I supposed to hate everything? Ooooohhh, right, that whole refusal to go along with the Internet-based groupthink thing. Seriously, it's not Raiders, nor is it as iconic as Temple, but it really isn't that bad. I watched them all back to back once to see if I'm not crazy. Nope, it actually fits in _really_ well.
As stoked as I am for this, I know that the world is too cynical a place for Indy nowadays. Star Wars did make a boat load of money, but I know there's some idiotic complaints going on about that, too. The world doesn't deserve these movies anymore. I do not pretend to understand the mindset that these mouthbreathers walk into the theater with, but I swear, it has to be something going on in the back of their minds the whole time:
OH! LOOK, SOMETHING ILLOGICAL TAKING PLACE IN A STORY OF MAKE BELIEVE! I READ ABOUT THIS AHEAD OF TIME, EVERYONE ELSE WAS RIGHT. I MUST HATE THIS! I CAN'T WAIT TO HIT REDDIT WITH MY COMPLAINTS! MY VOICE MUST BE HEARD WITH THE OTHERS!
Fuck 'em. I've had it.
Also, I agree with Josh Look on this 100%. The rampant narcissism (here's a picture of my dessert!) has bred a generation of mouth breathing turds that think that we really are impressed with their ability to deliver snark and elevate themselves above the mundane.
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I hope they find a way to set up something interesting for Indiana Jones movies to continue in spirit, even if they don't star the Indiana Jones.
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- engineer Al
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"Indy, throw me the walker!"
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- Michael Barnes
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I actually like the idea of an older Indy either recounting some previous adventure (with ties to a current framing story) or Indy taking on more of a mentor role to a younger explorer. He ain't going to be riding horses, punching Nazis, etc....either way I think this film has got to be a hand-off to a new star and a send-off for Ford.
Maybe something like setting up Indy to be the founder/leader of an archaelogical society with younger folk doing what he did in his prime. But in the 1960s/1970s.
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