Batman, mass murderer.

Batman kills tons of dudes in reality and uses a gun in a dream sequence in BvS (I've read full spoilers and reviews since I have no intention on seeing it). Zack Snyder's justification? So that it seems believable when he goes to fight Superman.

He gets this stuff, see? He really GETS this stuff! Go line his fucking pockets now.

Did you see his interview when he defended the fact that thousands of people died in Man of Steel due to Superman's actions? He basically said, "Yeah, well, The Force Awakens had five planets blow up, which is way more people and everybody loved that, so pfffftttt."

What Snyder perhaps failed to recognize is that those planets were blown up by the BAD GUYS.

The reviews I've read on AV Club and Comic Book Resources were pretty scathing. I still can't believe DC handed the keys to the kingdom over to that d-bag Snyder.

From Peter Travers' review in Rolling Stone:

"Dawn of Justice is a colossus, the stuff that DC Comics dreams are made of for that kid in all of us who yearns to see Batman and Superman suit up and go in for the kill."

Ummmmmmm...unless that's some kind of meta-comment or a coded reference to how much this movie doesn't understand that Batman and Superman DON'T "go in for the kill", I don't even know what to say about it.

IGN's review warned to approach it more as an extension of Snyder's Watchmen. GRRRRRREAT. Will do. I'll assume it's a longer, more painful turd.

Everything about this movie just looks like garbage, and the positive comments I've seen are either from people that were likely dazzled at seeing a big movie at an early screening or from people that are giving VERY qualified, VERY guarded reviews.

But hey, how about that Civil War trailer! Spider-Man looks GREAT! And he got jokes!

Last time I checked, Batman didn't even go in for the kill in Dark Knight Returns. He fights Superman out of self defense.

I think this proves that you really can't take anything from that story out of context. It's such an extreme Batman story, you can't just take and use what you want from it. You'll only fuck it up and make something that makes zero sense.

Not to blow my own horn or anything, but I've done some stuff I'm mighty proud of due to growing up a Batman fan, volunteering to do things that help people, like becoming a Big Brother for example. I know people are saying not to bring kids to this movie, but you know it will happen. Bums me out to know that this will be the introduction to Batman that some kids will have.

And he when he kills the Joker it feels tragic, desperate and almost like more of a defeat than a victory. I remember reading that in '86 and it was genuinely shocking and disturbing. But it was also, like you said, in the context of that particular story. It's an emotional, Manichean apocalypse. I'm sure Snyder read that and pumped his fist "yeah dude, Batman fucked him up!"

It is sad that a lot of kids are going to come into seeing Batman as a violent, hateful monster...he's not even that in TDKR. It's nowhere near what Nolan did, which is to show that Bruce Wayne made choices with serious consequences and they were all for good. And it's a far cry from what Morrison was suggesting in his run, that Batman is the "optimal man".

Frankly, I'm kind of tired of the "psycho" Batman- which is one of the reasons I liked Morrison's take so much. And that was also what made Damian Wayne such an interesting foil, because he really was (at first) a psycho. Part of the story is that Batman teaches him to be moral and conscientious.

I disliked what he did with Superman so much that I had no intention of seeing this anyways.

Fool me once...

Batman has ALWAYS used guns and killed people.

To think that the Adam West, pussified version of The Bat is accurate or representative of him, you're deluded.

He did have a sort of "moment of clarity" and now has a no guns rule, so to speak, but he's set his morals aside all throughout his career.

gizmodo.com/7-times-batman-has-bent-his-no-guns-rule-1634040693

Look, I'm kind of an authority on Bats, and I'm pretty sure most people here would stand behind my claim. That article is, frankly, completely full of shit. Not entirely wrong, but most of it falls into the "doesn't count" category.

Ok, so the Golden Age (before comics had such a thing as depth to characters and writers realized it that a guy this traumatized by the death of his parents would logically despise the very instrument of their deaths), two nods to the Golden Age, a video game (which I can confirm was non-lethal use), a film by a director who had no fucking clue what to do with the character, two movies where, again, non-lethal use, and one where is was an act of complete desparation, and his use of a gun was clearly not meant to be taken lightly. Of those examples only 2 of them I would consider cannon, and at this point, I'm not sure if the Golden Age counts. The vast majority of the characters history stands by a "no guns, no killing" policy, and in this case, it's either the work of someone who doesn't get it or is referencing something incorrectly.

And as for definitive version of Batman? No, not Adam West, though I acknowledge its place. No, the definitive Batman is the Animated Series. Grant Morrison's is close, but very meta.

There was an Elseworlds story where Batman was a pirate. But that does not mean that he is always a pirate and the character is not defined by being a pirate.

Like Jesus, Batman is open to interpretation and there have been many different interpretations over the character's history. Some of which have had lasting impact and have become part of canonical identity. Others- including a lot of earlier work where Batman was hanging crooks and blowing up "Japs"- have been largely jettisoned.

It is worth noting that with a few minor deviations (such as killing Joker in DKR), the best, most successful, most influential, and most popular interpretations are across the board a no killing/no guns hero.

Really, he doesn't quite kill Joker in DKR. He starts to, has this, "Wait, what the hell am I doing moment," and the stops. Joker finishes it for him. Powerful moment for sure, but it's an extreme Batman story.

There's also a part in DKR after takes over the mutant gang, takes one of their guns and snaps it in half. He says "This is the tool of the enemy. We do not need it. We shall not use it. A gun is a coward's weapon...a liar's weapon." One of my favorite moments in comics history.

Also, without Adam West, Batman would likely have the mainstream cultural resonance of Aquaman.

Guns....no guns......Honestly, not even the most controversial Batman convo...

If Synder doesn't have giant blue swinging dicks in this new movie, then I'm on-board with B v. S, abbreviated as "B.S."