official Westworld thread

Wadenels - I wish. But I have a feeling they'll be milking the theme park for a few seasons more.

This show reminds me somewhat of "V" disastrous reboot. I was coming in expecting a modernized "V" - that is, a tale of how democracy is subverted, overturned and replaced by a dictatorship of space lizards, and how we fight them. What we got instead was... I don't honestly remember, and I think nobody does. Westworld maybe is not as stupid (and definitely not as cheap) as "V" reboot, but I think the end result is very similar. No amount of last minute twists and revelations will change the fact that in the 6 or 7 hours we've seen so far practically nothing of interest has happened yet.

What I particularly can't stand about it are the action scenes. First of all, they're not that great to begin with. Secondly, we know that none of the characters are in any real danger, because it is all a frakking game. And there's no motivation to these bang-bangs whatsoever: the hosts are videogame baddies - the shallowest and less intimidating form of opposition that humankind has ever encountered, while the humans (invulnerable) are on a very important quest... to find a frakking easter egg. I virtually can't imagine lower stakes.

The only mildly interesting arc, in my opinion, is that of Maeve, but here the show is at its most formulaic (sometimes plain stupid).

Now that I have vented my feelings here, I think I'm pretty much done with it... But, when at some point the hosts rebel and take control, I'll probably read it here and tune back in.

I think you're kinda missing the point with the shoot-em-up bang-bang stuff. It's window dressing. It's supposed to "bore" us in the sense that we become desensitized to it. One of the themes is that the "real" people are losing their humanity while the "fake" ones are discovering their own.

What I find interesting about the coming revolution/awakening are the different paths it could take. Once the robots become self-aware, they could just say, "No. This must stop. We're not playing in your game anymore" and walk off. What the writers are foreshadowing, however, is more like, "No. This must stop. You must be destroyed for what you have done." When that happens, you'll get your bloodbath alright.

I admit that I probably give the show and its writers more credit than they deserve, but I'm so pleased that they're putting interesting ideas into the mix that I forgive a lot.

Vlad wrote: This show reminds me somewhat of "V" disastrous reboot. I was coming in expecting a modernized "V" - that is, a tale of how democracy is subverted, overturned and replaced by a dictatorship of space lizards, and how we fight them. What we got instead was... I don't honestly remember, and I think nobody does. Westworld maybe is not as stupid (and definitely not as cheap) as "V" reboot, but I think the end result is very similar. No amount of last minute twists and revelations will change the fact that in the 6 or 7 hours we've seen so far practically nothing of interest has happened yet.

Oh my God, I forgot about that 'V' remake. What a steaming pile of boring crap. Elizabeth Mitchell deserved so much better.

I think Westworld is better than V, but I think it's mostly been skating by on some interesting, meaty thematic material, killer production values, a great cast, and Thandie Newton's naked body. Those are solid building blocks, but at some point, this show needs to start telling a goddamn STORY. That means characters with goals and motivations that we can understand. To date, only Maeve has a clear goal. Everybody else is frustrating and vague. Seven episodes in, and I still have no idea what Ford is doing or what he wants. Same for Bernard, Theresa (which might be irrelevant now, I guess), William, the Man in Black, etc. Dolores has talked a lot about wanting tio find herself, or wanting "freedom," whatever that means. I'm hoping this stuff starts to come into focus in the final 3 episodes, but we'll see.

These complaints seems misplaced--Nolan's writing always has an element of ambiguity for protagonist motivations in the early goings. This guy wrote MEMENTO--and the protagonist never learns what his motivation is in that story. What did you expect? The naked bodies as a lure is comical, as they are so completely desexualized most of the time it's jarring. If you need to see some titties, the internet is like right there, man. There's tons of nudity, but it's not GAME OF THRONES nudity as much as it is AMERICAN AUTOPSY nudity.

I'm wondering if Maeve wants to escape the park or her physical body. She just uses it as a means to an end now so I don't think she's attached to it. Dolores on the other hand I think wants to physically leave.

Joebot wrote: [quote="Vlad" post=238418

Oh my God, I forgot about that 'V' remake. What a steaming pile of boring crap. Elizabeth Mitchell deserved so much better.

The only real good part was when they finally killed the whiney angst ridden son of Elizabeth Mitchells character, but by then it was too late and the show was doomed.

Gregarius wrote: I think you're kinda missing the point with the shoot-em-up bang-bang stuff. It's window dressing. It's supposed to "bore" us in the sense that we become desensitized to it. One of the themes is that the "real" people are losing their humanity while the "fake" ones are discovering their own.

I disagree, because I never miss the point. OK, maybe sometimes. Well, most of the time, but not this time... I think.
These action scenes could have "boring on purpose" (which still sounds very, very apologetic) for the first episode or two. But we have them in every goddamn episode, and they're really long and weightless (and boring! - the worst sin a show can commit).

Example: last episode when the guy on the train says: "we'll have to shoot our way through this territory". My gamer reflexes interpret that this is the end of a cut-scene and suggests that what follows is a turret sequence, prompting me to pick up the controller. I sigh, because this is one of those games that you play for cut-scenes. I want to share my acute observation with my wife, but find that she's asleep - her gamer's partner reflexes have prompted her to close her eyes while her husband is playing.

jeb wrote: These complaints seems misplaced--Nolan's writing always has an element of ambiguity for protagonist motivations in the early goings. This guy wrote MEMENTO--and the protagonist never learns what his motivation is in that story. What did you expect? The naked bodies as a lure is comical, as they are so completely desexualized most of the time it's jarring. If you need to see some titties, the internet is like right there, man. There's tons of nudity, but it's not GAME OF THRONES nudity as much as it is AMERICAN AUTOPSY nudity.

Wait, is it actually written by Nolan? I thought he was the producer.
But you can't compare a film to a TV show... I mean you can, but it doesn't seem right. Memento was 90 mins long (barely bearable 90 mins), and you got all the pieces in the end. This has been going on for 7 hours, and I don't empathize with anybody. Which, I guess, is a pretty Nolanesque quality, actually. Doesn't work for a TV show, though.

So every theory about this show was confirmed last night.

I know #3 is the widely accepted and wildly popular theory, but I don't see how it was "confirmed" last night. Likely, sure, but not confirmed.

However, I admit I have bias because I don't like that theory.

Gregarius wrote: I know #3 is the widely accepted and wildly popular theory, but I don't see how it was "confirmed" last night. Likely, sure, but not confirmed.

However, I admit I have bias because I don't like that theory.

I am glad I am not reading the same sites you all are, honestly. I am just digging the show. I did enough of the "what's really going on" thing with THE MATRIX and LOST and don't need to head down that kind of rabbit hole again. I am not seeing



Nor did I see


all these fan theories read like spams of every possible outcome and then someone just rounds up the winners after every episode and says "SEE?!"

Finally started watching this in the past week. I'm a sucker for "puzzle" tv, even if it's more likely than not it won't stick a satisfying landing. I don't know about anyone else, but a BSG line keeps coming to mind as I watch this show: All this has happened before, and all of it will happen again. Speaking of BSG, it's HBO, so they won't do it, but I'd love it if the show had James Callis and Tricia Helfer strolling down the street in the background of some scene just to screw with the internet.

Re MiB = William, I think the show has been offering up lots of reasons to suspect that from the early going. I suspected it as soon as the show made a point of showing both William and the MiB hand Delores back her dropped can good in the street (ep 2, I think). I think MiB said various things in the first couple of episodes that raised the possibility as well when you started seeing the William/Logan story. I agree that the show hasn't explicitly come out and said it, but all signs point to that being a likely explicit reveal in ep 10.

Re Bernard = Arnold, I don't know that last night's episode confirmed anything. Given there is only 1 episode left, it probably did. But if we accept last night's episode at face value, it means that Bernard is a robot version of Arnold created by Ford sometime after Arnold's death. That still leaves a number of questions. Was Arnold ever a real person? Is there nobody around who still remembers Arnold and how Bernard looks just like him?! If not, why not?

Regardless of what happens in ep 10 with respect to the big plot lines, I just hope that a few minor things get answered:
1) why does a company that must have a ton of money to do everything it does, have such wonky lighting (and plumbing problems, apparently)?
2) why does nobody notice anything that happens in a facility with glass walls (and almost certainly cameras)?
3) why are Felix and Sylvester so stupid?

If it turns out that everybody (or nearly everybody) is a robot, then I'm going to be a little disappointed. But it would provide an explanation for some of the odd little things in the show as opposed to just chalking those things up as show decisions to create atmosphere or clumsily move the plot along.

jeb wrote: I am glad I am not reading the same sites you all are, honestly. I am just digging the show. I did enough of the "what's really going on" thing with THE MATRIX and LOST and don't need to head down that kind of rabbit hole again. I am not seeing

Warning: Spoiler!

the two timelines you all mention. I mean, now that you mention it, OK, and once Logan handed William the picture Abernathy freaked out about, I can see the links, but why suspect that before this point?

Nor did I see

Warning: Spoiler!

Bernard being Arnold. Weren't you all telling me Arnold was Ford's brother a couple of weeks ago? Now it's common knowledge that Bernard is Arnold and this "confirms" it? When did that consensus happen?

all these fan theories read like spams of every possible outcome and then someone just rounds up the winners after every episode and says "SEE?!"

I'm the only one who put forth the Arnold was Ford's brother theory. Even though I still like that theory, it seems much less likely now.

The thing that mucks things up for me is that stupid photograph. If it weren't for that, you could easily assume that the physical appearance of Bernard had nothing to do with whomever his personality is based on. it would also go a long way towards explaining why no one "recognizes" him.

I think nobody recognizes him because he died about 30 years before Bernard showed up and he was also only there in the early days before the corporation came in. How many people would still work there from the beta testing? I'm sure Ford would know as they'd be the only ones there as long as him. I think the photo on Ford's desk is the only photo of Arnold and its facing Ford so noone else sees it. The board probably never met him and doubt anyone remembers seeing his picture decades ago well enough to recognize Bernard.