ST - Discovery

I thought the Benjamin/Jake Sisko stuff was great in DS9.

it would have been better if they had a relationship like Denzel's character in Fences and his kid

I just don't know how fully fleshed we can expect characters to be at episode 5 of season 1 when the first two episodes didn't include many of these characters.

exactly, but that's THEIR fault at this point. Data/Geordi didn't develop their friendship until well after Geordi becomes chief engineer. Troi and Worf took seasons to develop. So if you're going to show two characters talking about the weather, you can't really pull that off early on in a new show. Why would anyone care?

The original series generated such tremendous good will with fans that everybody endured two crappy seasons of Next Generation before it got good. This new series is in a pay format, and therefore needs to win people over quickly or face cancellation.

What a great show! I'm really enjoying it. I think Captain Lorca, Michael Burnham, and Saru are all well conceived and well executed with great acting coming from Doug Jones who has to operate behind that mask.

I like the fact that it has an ongoing story arc and isn't just episodic. I think the questions being posed are pretty interesting and I adore the fact that they are pretty even handed with both sides of the questions it poses.

So far, it's pretty damn good.

I think they did misstep with the Mudd cameo. They seemed not to grasp the essence of the character which is that not only is he a self serving, blustering and cowardly opportunist but that he has charm and humor which makes you at some level like him despite yourself . They got the first part but forgot the second. Barney's complaint that he looked "just like Dwight" is, of course, nonsense.

The scene where the scientist and the medic are brushing their teeth together was heavy handed. That should have been shown as just normal in the way that women in positions of power were handled in the original series. It's just the natural state, they never make a big deal about it. Instead you have this clunky scene in a bathroom where, and this is the worst part, they are using manual toothbrushes? At least give them a water pick or something.

But as a counter weight to these two things, you have the whole idea of a possibly sentient creature being used as a navigational device and the morality of such use in time of war. You also have the fantastic new character of the Admiral in charge of Lorca. She really stole the scenes she was in.

I don't get all of the negativity toward it, this is a really good, high quality SF TV show and it is also a great, modern Trek. No, it is not just like the old shows. But it works, it's compelling, and it's fun. There is also some great thematic material. The only thing I think is a whiff are the Klingons. I'm just not feeling it with them, and their subplot I'm not that interested in. I also think it was a miss to feed Georgiou to them- she was awesome.

I do like Lorca so far, and Saru has really grown on me. I like that the relationships are quite a bit more complicated than "Riker is an ambitious womanizer that lactually really ikes the psychic boob lady". Burnham is really developing well- a complex, interesting character that isn't always easy to like. There's a certain awkwardness and brokenness about her that I think is smartly placed in the story. Her conversations with Saru are great.

One thing I don't know if someone else has pointed out up thread...the whole thing with the spores and the Tardigrade...well, let's just call it out. That is 100% from Dune. Replaces "spores" with "spice" and "Tardigrade" with "Guild Navigator" and it is practically the exact same thing. It's not really a problem because it is an awesome idea and I do like how it is unfolding in the story, but there it is. There is no possible way that the writers were not thinking of Dune there

I haven't gotten to the gay scene (cool, at last!) or the F-bomb, I think that is in the next episode I haven't watched.

OK, I am caught up to last week's episode. I think this show is getting better as it goes on, and I liked it to begin with.

The gay scene, I thought, was GREAT. It was completely natural, and their relationship was telegraphed subtly in advance but on a "professionals at work" level rather than "attention: gay men on board" way. It was tender and a little sweet, and respectful that these are two completely normal men in a relationship. The manual toothbrushes...ha, yeah, that was pretty old fashioned, wasn't it. But it also sold the "every day" perspective of the scene.

Stamets injecting himself with the Tardigrade sauce...pretty interesting! Classic Trek pseudo science. It's pretty clear that will have some consequences further down the line.

The Admiral is definitely a character to watch.

I really like that Georgiou maintains such a strong presence in the show- she made such an impression as a Starfleet captain, it's great that they acknowledge that the characters can't really let her go.

Mudd...eh. I dunno, I thought that was kind of dumb. I was never much of a Mudd fan to begin with, but THAT felt forced to me.

The toothbrush scene is an example of why Star Trek should stay away from mundane scenes. If they use manual toothbrushes, it looks out of place with the overall tech level. If they use electric/sonic toothbrushes, it still looks out of place because it seems unlikely that current technology would represent the endpoint of personal dental care centuries later. And if they try to do something futuristic for the toothbrushes, there is a chance that some of the audience won't catch on without exposition that would come across as clumsy during a mundane moment.

I’m surprised it’s the toothbrushes that is the sticking point of that scene. I’ve been watching Trek since the 80’s. If the show wants to be brave and avant-garde, why not just have them kiss like Kirk and Uhura?

So far I’m only Discovering that I’ve outgrown Trek maybe

Black Barney wrote:
So far I’m only Discovering that I’ve outgrown Trek maybe

I have an image of Barney staying up late into the night crafting this line, many crumpled pieces of paper by his desk. Then the smug look of satisfaction as he finely gets it just right. Bravo.

Weren't you bagging on the show before you'd even watched it?

I suspect Barney also scratched his soul patch and twirled his hipster moustache as well while composing that.

Here's the thing with the toothbrushes. Trek has always had that kind of every day, mundane hand prop thing going on. Think about Kirk and company having cups of coffee on the bridge (I love that, BTW). And there is always a sense of anachronism- Kirk's books, Picard's Earl Grey, and things like that. Maybe a good old manual toothbrush is still the best way to brush teeth despite some kind of high-tech device? Or maybe they just choose to do it the old fashioned way?

I kind of did want them to kiss, but I felt like it was enough for that point- they should save that for a bigger moment, not a "couple in the bathroom" scene.

Tilly bugs me. Maybe a little too pandering, I dunno.

It feels much more like "Mass Effect: The TV Show" than Trek, but I'm enjoying it for what it is.

(Sidenote: The Orville actually captures the feel of TNG pretty accurately, and some of the episodes have decently interesting stories to tell, but I've never seen a show more confused in what it wants to be than that one.)

And that’s because Seth is a huge Shatner fan rather than a Gene Roddenberry fan. And that’s fine.

Ever hear Seth do his Kirk imitation in Trouble with Tribbles. « Iwantthemofftheship »

This morning I finished watching the first season, or half season it seems as new shows return in January, of Discovery. On the whole, I enjoyed it quite a bit. I'd like to sum up some of my thoughts here.

I have also been listening to The 50 Year Mission on audio which is an "unauthorized" history of Star Trek from it's inception to the J.J. Abrams films. There is a section where they talk about ideas and scripts that were bandied about after the death of Enterprise and the premier of the reboot movies. These all got squashed for a variety of reasons but one script was written where the author (one of the writers on Band of Brothers though I can't remember his name right now) envisioned a trilogy of movies. The first would be loosely based on the Illiad and the second on The Odyssey and the third he didn't know. He pictured a Star Fleet that was struggling to find the balance between militarism and exploration. I think much of that idea has been incorporated into this new show and I like all of that.

I think they did a great job of portraying that conflict. Trying to win the war and still keep the ideals of Star Trek. So the whole season arc was great.





The characters were also great. With the possible exception of Tilly, the cadet, who I liked at first. I'm not totally against her yet but I think they need to write her character in a more engaging manner because right now she is two flat and mono dimensional. The others though are all deep and very interesting. I love Captain Lorca and Saru is fantastic as well. Not so hot on the Ash Tyler character though he did get very interesting in the season finale. Hell, even the Vulcan admiral was awesome. I'd love to see him more.

The production values and look of the show are great. Yes it's dark. Boohoo. I for one don't miss the Corporate Meeting Room look of the office building in space that was Next Gen's Enterprise. All they needed were a few artificial ferns. I like the more utilitarian look used in Discovery. I like the adherence to the spirit of the tech from the original show yet have them modified to look cooler. The phasers and the communicators. All great.

So on the whole I recommend it. But there are a few things I didn't like.

The Harry Mudd stuff was tragically bad. I don't know where that came from because it is so at odds with everything else going on in the show. From his non plausible incarceration on a Klingon war ship for non payment of debt (?!) to the episode dedicated to him starting with the rave party to the recycling of Groundhog Day. I thought the guy did a good job of acting but I think the role was written horribly and the character was rotten. What purpose did he serve? In what way did that episode advance the story arc?

The Klingons, oh the Klingons. I understand the desire to give them a new and more monstrous look. I was willing to give it a shot and hoped it would grow on me. It did not. I don't like it. I don't like it from a pure aesthetic aspect and also because it totally limits the actors. If all you've really got to use is your eyes you've got to be over the top great to make it work. Even Saru has more tools to use as he can use body language to covey a great deal. But the Klingons are stiff and almost motionless. It's bad but now they are committed to the look so there is no going back.

I also hate that they speak in Klingon and use what I suppose is meant to be an alien cadence in their speech. It further ruins any scene they are in because I'm reading the dialog and not watching what is going on. I don't think speaking a made up language helped the already crippled actors at all either.

Lastly the female Klingon's white suit with pink spikes. God, that is horrible in it's purest form.