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× Talk abut Movies & TV here. Just tell us what you have been watching. Have hyper-academic discussions on visual semiotics. Whatever, it's all good.

The Last Jedi - Full Spoilers

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09 Jan 2018 10:23 - 09 Jan 2018 10:25 #260583 by Michael Barnes
There has never been a SW film that we can talk about like this.

One thing I found really intriguing the second time is how much -spiritual jeopardy- Rey is in. And it’s not just the Manichean Jedi vs. Sith thing- we are throwing that away here. Even Snoke, the ostensible Big Bad, is doing that. I mean hell, he’s not even advocating some kind of “all Dark Side, all the time” platform! He’s talking about balance and light!

But man, even knowing the outcome, I just really loved that feeling that Rey could go the wrong way at a moment’s notice. And I find it utterly compelling that Kylo Ren (the most complex character SW has ever featured) tempts her so greatly. Because he IS “good” by blood, and even though he killed his father (and a beloved character) we still really kind of feel for him. It’s utterly compelling that he isn’t “evil”, he’s just LOST and BROKEN.

So there is a much richer moral and spiritual thing going on here, and I think it is correct that the organized, regimented solutions are cast off. That’s why I found it really powerful that Yoda gleefully burns the tree down- here is the great spiritual center of SW basically saying “you don’t need all the trappings of religion to be spiritual and moral”.

Like I said, in The Clone Wars the morality and “goodness” of the Jedi are frequently called into question but this is really the first time in the films that we are told that maybe the Jedi are not really what we want them to be. Or what Luke wants them to be.

The theme of discarding past baggage and structure is definitely a theme throughout, and I think that is ultimately why this is such a divisive film. Because SW is practically a modern day faith, and here you have a canonical, “main” film telling its audience to jettison a lot of things that we have held on to since 1977. But like Luke says, “this is not going to go the way you think it is”, and this film is asking us to take a HUGE leap of faith and move away from dogma. Moreso than Rogue One, which is also a film that shows a lot of progressive ideas.

You know, in a way, the villains are the ones who can’t let go of the past...I think that is pretty significant.

I believe that SW needs this kind of spiritual upheaval to happen regardless of its “fans” if it is going to be an ongoing cultural concern. I have come to feel like The Force Awakens, as much as it was a sort of resetting of the table, is also something of a full circle farewell to the traditional SW narrative and “belief system”.

I think that in time, this will be regarded as the second best SW film. It’s early. But it took 10 years for Empire to be fully appreciated as the best.

Back down to earth...I’ve decided that I just love Hux...I think it is great that he is written to be a cartoonishly evil space Nazi that just gets shut down at every turn.
Last edit: 09 Jan 2018 10:25 by Michael Barnes.
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09 Jan 2018 10:33 #260588 by Black Barney
Something I noticed in the movie, and something I did not notice...

I NOTICED that at one point on the Falcon after they pick up Luke, someone goes to a drawer to get something and the drawer is stuffed with those jedi texts. Did anyone else notice this? (I imagine the internets has talked this to death but I haven't seen it mentionned yet so maybe i'm offside on this). Looks like those books didn't get burned down but Luke took them with him.

I DID NOT notice that the kid at the end uses the Force to pull the broom towards him, but I'm hearing that it happened. Did you guys notice that?

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09 Jan 2018 10:40 #260589 by san il defanso

Black Barney wrote: Something I noticed in the movie, and something I did not notice...

I NOTICED that at one point on the Falcon after they pick up Luke, someone goes to a drawer to get something and the drawer is stuffed with those jedi texts. Did anyone else notice this? (I imagine the internets has talked this to death but I haven't seen it mentionned yet so maybe i'm offside on this). Looks like those books didn't get burned down but Luke took them with him.

I DID NOT notice that the kid at the end uses the Force to pull the broom towards him, but I'm hearing that it happened. Did you guys notice that?


I noticed both of these things, although I'm not 100% certain those were the Jedi texts. I only noticed it on the second viewing, and it was a kind of "wait, go back" moment. It would be an interesting development.
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09 Jan 2018 10:45 #260590 by Black Barney
The reason it stuck out to me is there is rarely anything that is an accident when it comes to art direction. They took the time to pan the camera and follow a person going to open a DRAWER on the Falcon. Who the hell cares where they are getting this thing from? So the fact that they showed a drawer open up with all these colourful un-burnt texts leads me to think that he saved them, which makes total sense too.
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09 Jan 2018 10:57 #260594 by Sagrilarus
He was getting a blanket for Rose. I didn't notice it. The rest of my family did. They're clearly much sharper than I am.
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09 Jan 2018 10:58 - 09 Jan 2018 10:59 #260595 by charlest

Black Barney wrote: The reason it stuck out to me is there is rarely anything that is an accident when it comes to art direction. They took the time to pan the camera and follow a person going to open a DRAWER on the Falcon. Who the hell cares where they are getting this thing from? So the fact that they showed a drawer open up with all these colourful un-burnt texts leads me to think that he saved them, which makes total sense too.


Wasn't aware of this but apparently it's true.

www.cbr.com/last-jedi-spoilers-last-prank-on-luke-explained/
www.popsugar.com/entertainment/Did-Rey-S...s-Last-Jedi-44363335
thecantina.starwarsnewsnet.com/index.php...nt-jedi-texts.53492/
Last edit: 09 Jan 2018 10:59 by charlest.
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09 Jan 2018 11:15 #260597 by JEM

Michael Barnes wrote: I think that in time, this will be regarded as the second best SW film. It’s early. But it took 10 years for Empire to be fully appreciated as the best.

Back down to earth...I’ve decided that I just love Hux...I think it is great that he is written to be a cartoonishly evil space Nazi that just gets shut down at every turn.


It might be my third favourite, but that's because I really love the speeder bikes in RotJ.

I would expect Hux to be the dog that bites eventually, probably bringing down Kylo Ren in some way. However, Abrams is back in charge so I can see him remaining as the heel of the series.

The books stash, the kid with the broom; the movie is full of details people missed the first, second time of viewing. I think that when the movie comes out on disc that people will find a lot of plot holes and WTF moments are actually closed up or explained. I trust Rian Johnson to write a tight script; space wizards and laser swords included.
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09 Jan 2018 11:27 #260598 by Not Sure
The Force-broom was totally clear to me on the first viewing. It was the perfect end to that movie, and I was completely keyed in before that.

I definitely saw the books in the drawer, and wasn't 100% sure if they were the Jedi texts, but I think it's pretty clear that they are.

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09 Jan 2018 11:46 #260600 by jeb
Heard this cool tidbit about holding on to the past that you are alluding to above. Maybe it was in this thread! Anyway, I have been turning this around for a bit.

The First Order isn't like Nazis (viz, the Empire), they are like Neo-Nazis. They have seen Nazis and their downfall and said, "Oh yeah, that's for me. I gotta get that going again." Even down to the Death Star bullshit and a fake Vader. And the "rebels" --like, what the fuck? You guys WON. It's a goddamned Republic. James Monroe didn't go around calling himself a "rebel" after the Revolutionary War, even when the War of 1812 started and the same belligerents came back.

Snoke and Luke are the only ones saying it wasn't all that great. Romanticism colors the past and you should be careful about that. Everyone else is, "FUCK YEAH, THE PAST!" and goes headlong into a bunch of death and wanton destruction.

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09 Jan 2018 11:46 #260601 by Michael Barnes
They were the Jedi texts. I think that’s significant because the moral (and martial) teachings are still valid- it’s the Jedi Order that was the problem.

The kid with the broom was CLEARLY meant to drive home the message that the Force is not a birthright, is not part of a sacred bloodline, and is available to anyone. I know there is a drive to want to make that kid a “thing”, like he will be the next SW hero, but I think the point is that he is a “nobody”...and it also speaks to the spark that will start a new rebellion.
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09 Jan 2018 12:33 #260606 by Gregarius

Black Barney wrote: Something I noticed in the movie, and something I did not notice...

I NOTICED that at one point on the Falcon after they pick up Luke, someone goes to a drawer to get something and the drawer is stuffed with those jedi texts. Did anyone else notice this? (I imagine the internets has talked this to death but I haven't seen it mentionned yet so maybe i'm offside on this). Looks like those books didn't get burned down but Luke took them with him.

I DID NOT notice that the kid at the end uses the Force to pull the broom towards him, but I'm hearing that it happened. Did you guys notice that?

I saw it again last night with my brother, and I liked it better the second time.

I DID notice both the books and the force-grab broom the first time, but I noticed something new this viewing re the books.

Rey shuts the drawer on the Falcon when she's getting ready to leave. You can see something's in there, but you can't tell what (the books, as revealed later).
Later, Luke goes to burn down the tree, then can't do it. Yoda calls down lightning to burn the tree anyway. Luke tries to run in to save the books (not knowing that Rey took them), and a blast prevents him from going in. Then Yoda says, "There's nothing in that library that Rey does not already possess." So, on first viewing, it sounds like it means Rey already knows everything, but really it means that the library is empty because Rey stole the books! Yoda again knows more than Luke and is fucking with him!
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09 Jan 2018 13:36 #260615 by Sagrilarus

Gregarius wrote: Yoda again knows more than Luke and is fucking with him!


In a lot of ways Yoda is a complete asshole. He's wise and all and has a good heart, but I sure as hell wouldn't want to share an apartment with him.
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09 Jan 2018 14:49 #260617 by ChristopherMD
"Snake I left in bed, found you did. Mmmm"
-Roommate Yoda
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09 Jan 2018 15:36 #260620 by bfkiller

san il defanso wrote: Rose HAS to give up her necklace, because otherwise they can't accomplish what they need to accomplish.


My poor brain. I couldn't figure out for a few minutes why the hell you were referencing out of nowhere the old lady throwing her necklace into the ocean at the end of Titanic.
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09 Jan 2018 15:48 - 09 Jan 2018 15:51 #260622 by bfkiller
My take on the movie:

I appreciate that it has some thematic depth, like what's been talked about the last few pages, and the humour generally worked for me, but I think the storytelling was pretty sloppy. I mean, this is basically the plot:



It's also kind of weird that everyone seems to be a major fuck-up, on both sides. No wonder pretty much every soldier is dead and every ship destroyed. The galaxy must just be rolling their eyes at this point.
Last edit: 09 Jan 2018 15:51 by bfkiller.
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