A couple comics questions

I don't want to bog down and risk losing this in the comics thread, so I'm posting a new topic.

I'd like to check out some stuff with Captain America. Ed Brubaker's run is often talked about highly, so is that a good place to start? What trades should I look for there?

I'd also like to read some high-quality Hulk stuff, but I have no idea where to start.

My son is big into Marvel heroes, and I've enjoyed digging into the comics some. Any direction would be appreciated. What are some other Marvel runs that are good to check out? I read the first two trades of Simonson's Thor and it was awesome.

I'm reading those Captain America ones right now with my new $60/yr unlimited reading marvel comics subscription on my ipad. They sorted out most of the techy hitches and its good.

Stories are pretty good and it segues nicely into the Civil War run which is also available on Marvel Unlimited.

Yes, you probably want to start with Brubaker's Captain America #1 and keep going until you get bored.

Hulk-wise, I dunno. Maybe the Peter David run?

My personal preference is the long Steve Englehart run on Captain America, back in the '70s. For less than $40, you can get it all in black and white, in the Essential Captain America volumes 3 & 4. But many modern fans loved the Brubaker run. It's well-written, but I personally found it too dark, slow and glum. Especially dark. Some years back, Marvel seemed to pass a policy where most comic book scenes would take place at night, because even mediocre artwork looks okay against a black background. Another problem is that Bru was writing during an era when Marvel relied too heavily on big crossover events, trying to force fans to buy a lot of comics they wouldn't normally buy. So Cap keeps getting affected by events outside his title, and not always in a good way.

Again, my own favorite Hulk run is from an earlier period, when Peter David and Dale Keown were the creative team on Hulk. That was an unusual time, when Hulk and Banner were more fully integrated and Hulk had the intelligence of Banner. But for a new fan, it's easier to start in a more recent period. If you like science-fiction, you should start with Planet Hulk. It's a more classic style Hulk, with towering rages and lots of action, but taking place in a very alien setting. I'm about to try the Jason Aaron run, which might also prove amazing. His Vertigo series Scalped was one hell of a story, and I bet he can deliver the goods on an angry Hulk.

Other superhero recommendations? Just focusing on 21st century releases... The whole Astonishing X-Men run has been pretty good, and more accessible than most X-comics, which are often buried under layers of continuity. The current Waid run on Daredevil is getting some great buzz. The recent Hickman run on Fantastic Four is probably the best thing to happen to the FF in decades. And the Slott run on Spider-man is divisive but good, especially the huge plot twist from a couple of months ago. I'm a big Avengers fans, but I can't recommend much from the last decade. Also enjoyable: Immortal Iron Fist. Doctor Strange: the Oath. Agents of Atlas.

Don't know if you saw it, but Comixology is doing this thing where they have 700 Marvel #1s for free. That may be a good way to check out which Marvel books you like.

The Brubaker Cap run begins at Captain America Vol. 5, #1. It is absolutely excellent, and you need no other background going into it other than a rough idea of who Cap is. Even though longtime Cap friends/foes like Falcon, Batroc the Leaper, and so on show up, it's easy to get a handle on what their deal is. I'm up to #50 and the numbering changes back to #600, but I've not been bored in a single issue. It does play a little dark, but it's not really ever grim, nihilistic, or negative. This is because it's written like a gritty espionage thriller with superhero trappings, not because Brubaker is trying to "endarken" Cap or introduce a bunch of unnecessary violence or brutality. The tie-in stuff is there (particularly Civil War), but I think the books do a great job of giving you enough information so that you don't have to read anything else. And if you feel like you're missing something, Wikipedia.

The Simonson Thor is arguably the best mainstream superhero run ever written. There's three more trades worth of that. There's other good Thor stuff (I really like the new Jason Aaron God of Thunder series), but this is the top, bar none.

Planet Hulk is great, it's just a full-on sword & planet story but with the Hulk standing in for John Carter. It's long, epic, and generally pretty thrilling. I'm not a huge Hulk fan, but I thought this was a fun book. The recent Jason Aaron stuff wasn't bad, but I hate the Marc Silvestri pencils. Hulk: Grey was a pretty decent precis of the character.

Daredevil you can go two ways- the Bendis run is ultra dark (much more so than Cap), but it's particularly gripping and rewarding. Probably not a good one for kids. The recent Mark Waid series is brilliant- bright, vibrant, and energetic. And they make fun of the Bendis years. It's pretty kid-friendly too. A lot of Marvel stuff lately is skewing more towards light and bright.

Spider-Man and Fantastic Four are two books that have never been as good as they were in the 1960s. I actually wouldn't recommend anything past 1970 for either. Even big, well-regarded stuff like Kraven's Last Hunt and that Hickman run were pretty disappointing.

Iron Man works better for me with a team or as a supporting character. I'm not really crazy about anything solo I've read outside of Demon in a Bottle, Armor Wars, and a couple of random things here and there. Folks love the recent Fraction run, but it's so plastic and trite that by the time it runs into dumb crossover stuff it's no longer worth reading at all. Extremis is incredibly bad, avoid it.

Avengers is all over the place. There's so much of it, and there's so much crap. For your kid, I'd recommend the recent Avengers Assemble book. It's very ground floor, not dependent on a lot of continuity, and it's really kind of geared toward folks that are coming into the team from the movie. So it's very accessible,and mostly pretty light. It's probably too late to read the Kree-Skrull War, Celestial Madonna, or any of those important 1970s-1980s stories. They didn't age well. Some of the new stuff is pretty decent so far, Uncanny Avengers is obnoxious and weird, Young Avengers is pretty hip and cool.

X-Men, I don't care for the Whedon books but folks love them and they are easy to get into. I prefer the Morrison run, but it's really not a great place to start with the team. I think the old Claremont/Byrne books hold up pretty well. The new X-books are pretty continuity heavy and really depend on having a grasp on past events. Remender's Uncanny X-Force is pretty great, but there again you kind of need to have some background with the series to get the most out of it.

Punisher, go for the Punisher Max books. I hate Garth Ennis in general, but these books are quite good. Definitely not for kids.

Immortal Iron Fist (Brubaker and Fraction) is awesome, at least through the first couple of story arcs.

The latest Fraction Hawkeye book is really good. It's cute, light, and fun.

Guardians of the Galaxy rules. Look for the Abnett/Lanning series. There's some continuity there, but it's easy to get around. You don't HAVE to read Annihilation and Annihilation: Conquest to get it.

Doctor Strange, go for The Oath. It's a miniseries, but it's pretty darn good.

Ghost Rider, you're on your own. Never liked this character. Prefer Son of Satan.

Black Panther is another character that is much cooler on the side than in his own book.

Obvioulsy, there's a bajillion things you and your son could get into...you'll probably wind up reading the bad with the good. The Cap stuff is a great place to start though, because it's modern and compulsively readable.

San Il Defanso wrote: I'd like to check out some stuff with Captain America. Ed Brubaker's run is often talked about highly, so is that a good place to start?

Brubaker's run was (mostly) brilliant. I've read it many times and never been bored.

If you're thinking of the trades, and wanting to go in order, the Wiki has an accurate list (scroll down; it's a big entry). You want to start at "Captain America: Winter Soldier, Book One" and work downward.

Edit: I forgot the link:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Captain_America_titles

Michael Barnes wrote: Don't know if you saw it, but Comixology is doing this thing where they have 700 Marvel #1s for free. That may be a good way to check out which Marvel books you like.

Unfortunately, their servers weren't ready for this "free comics" promotion. Comixology is deader right now than PlayStation Network was two years ago.

I see on Amazon that Simonson's Thor is apparently getting a reprint this summer. I definitely think I'd like to pick that up.

I managed to get about 15 of the free #1s...it looks like they just completely bombed out their servers on it.

The Thor Omnibus is obviously amazing. But be warned, it's actually a pain in the ass to read. It's HUGE. The New X-Men one is like this too. I actually traded for Zev's Marvel Visionaries editions of the Simonson Thor because they're actually readable.

I think Barnes hit *every single good in-universe Marvel book ever*. Except Defenders, I've always heard Gerber's Defenders is the precursor to Doom Patrol, but have been skeptical due to reading Gerber's wildly overrated Howard the Duck. He also didn't mention the Miller Daredevils; I need to reread the early run to see how it holds up, but Daredevil: Born Again has gotta be in the top 5 or 10 Marvel comics.

I wouldn't even dream of reading the Brubaker Cap run with your kid, though. He's 3 or 4 years old, right? No way! It's not that it's overly dark or anything, or that you should "protect him"; it's just not aimed at kids, not aimed at them enjoying it. It's an adult comic, in a very positive sense of the word.

For a 3-4 year old, you've GOTTA go with the Ditko/Lee Spider-Mans or Kirby/Lee Fantastic Fours. They're aimed at kids like nearly *nothing* else listed by Barnes above. No book in my childhood had nearly as big an impact on me as Ditko/Lee's Spider-Man comics. As for all the other Ditko/Kirby/Lee '60s Marvel comics:
- As a kid, I also loved Kirby's X-Men & Avengers
- I didn't like Ditko's Dr. Strange; now I love it, but that's because I have a greater appreciation for the far-out art
- I didn't like the Kirby Thor either. Decades later, I find out that the first dozen Kirby Thor stories notoriously suck, and that starting with book 2 it becomes Kirby's #2 Marvel book after FF. But I still haven't read them yet.
- I didn't like the Kirby/Ditko Hulk and only liked the Cosmic Cube story in the Kirby Captain America
Except for FF, Spider-Man, Dr. Strange, and pieces of Thor vol. 1, I haven't reread any of the above since I was 10, so that's pure kid-perspective.

Kid-wise and not Marvel: in a couple years I'd recommend The TOON Treasury of Classic Children's Comics, which covers nearly every great kid's comic, a WIDE range of stuff. For 2-4 years old, my 2-year-old is currently loving the CRAP out of Superman Family Adventures. It's AMAZING how good this is for a 2-year-old, he wants to re-read multiple issues every night, is slowly memorizing all the dialogue, and laughs deep belly-laughs at the jokes.

I second Barnes' suggestion to get the Visionaries paperbacks for the Simonson Thor run instead of the Omnibus, they're also closer to the original coloring than the Omnibus, which I think is very important for the artwork.

The original Kirby/Lee Hulk run is amazing. I love it and no Hulk since has equaled that. For Captain America run the Brubaker run is a good place to start but The Ultimates isn't bad either as a quick introduction to him and a few other characters for how they're handled in the new universe.

Still if you can track down that original Hulk run nothing comes close, [**SPOILER**] the death of Boomerang still makes me cry every time.

JonJacob wrote: The original Kirby/Lee Hulk run is amazing. I love and no Hulk since has equaled that. For Captain America run the Brubaker run is a good place to start but The Ultimates isn't bad either as a quick introduction to him and a few other characters for how they're handled in the new universe.

Still if you can track down that original Hulk run nothing comes close, [**SPOILER**] the death of Boomerang still makes me cry every time.

I just got finished reading that run in the first volume of the Essential Hulk. It wasn't as good as I remembered. Early silver age writing tended to be crude compared to modern storytelling, but there were some great ideas. And I was shocked by all the Ditko artwork, including an issue where Ditko inked Kirby.

It's crude and silly at times but the heart is all there. Sometimes it's pretty funny too. I remember a few things that still crack me up: (not verbatim) "Hey, there's spy on the base we have to figure out who it is" (nervous guy shuffles out of the meeting room, a card falling from his pocket) "Hey.. what's this! A communist part card.. I think we found our spy."

or, even better is when the Fantastic Four are going over the many ways they can beat the Hulk. Mr. Fantastic is going to wrap him up in rubbery flesh, Torch is going to envelope him in flames, The Thing will flat our kick his ass and Invisible Woman says: "I can't really do anything (tee hee)" and the General tells her: "Don't worry maam, you can keep the guys moral up just by looking good."

PC stuff aside it's a good run, the introduction of the Leader, the Hulk being sent to the Watchers home to gather that amazing sphere and having a wicked fight with that other alien... there's some brilliant stuff it's just a weak, by today's standards, script, but as we all know the script came afterwards in those days. Most of the story is really in the drawings themselves.

Also been failed to mention:

- Brubakers run on Daredevil was also very good. I actually haven't read any of the Bendis stuff, but Brubaker takes off after that.

- Runaways is also really good, especially for tweens and teens. It's a new cast of characters so there's no catch-up and it features very little continuity (at least for Vaughan's run, I think after that it got kind of dragged into Civil War some). The Terry Moore stuff was really bad.

- Thor: The Mighty Avenger is a really light and fun take on Thor as he comes to Earth for the first time. Entirely continuity free. Charming art too.

I'll also throw my recommendations on Brubaker's Cap and Immortal Iron Fist and Whedon's Astonishing X-Men.

But your kid is only 3-4? Thor The Mighty Avenger works. I know Marvel has a line of kids comics, no idea if they are any good. Owly is really good. It's got zero words, so kids of any age can enjoy it. There's also Bone and Mouse Guard but those aren't superheroes.

He especially loves Spider-Man, and yes he just turned 3. Sounds like the Lee/Kirby Fantastic Four and Lee/Ditko Spider-Man stuff would be ideal for him. He also really loves the 1960s Spider-Man cartoon, which is a different animal, but feels close in spirit to me. He actually has a shirt with Thor, Hulk, Iron Man, and Spider-Man all drawn in their 1960s form. It's pretty cool, and it's easily one of his favorite things.

Brubaker's Cappy is more for myself, as is Hulk. He knows more about Marvel's universe at three than I did until just a few years ago, so it's fun to research the stuff he's into.