Fantasy Series to Read Recommendation

Over the past few months I've read:

Summer Knight: Not my favorite of the Dresden Files so far. The sleuthing was below average and I've enjoyed how fairy kingdoms work in other places better like in "Jonathon Strange and Mr. Norrell."

Vicious Circle: Another paranormal private eye series this time by comics writer Mike Carey. The protagonist is a freelance exorcist who exorcises ghosts by playing music on a tin whistle. He gets hired to do a job, gets mixed up with a Russian mob, a ghost and a succubus. Not a bad start to a series. Has a more serious tone and less flashy magic than the Dresden Files.

The Princess Bride: I've always loved the movie, owned the book for several years and finally gotten around to reading it. I'm not sure I've read/seen such a harmonious pair of movie and book before. I know the book came before the movie, but the scenes from the book that aren't in the movie, you can just see them in your minds' eye fleshed out on film.

Sandman Slim: I'm about partway through another supernatural noir book. I'm not sure what my deal with these books are. Sandman Slim is OK but suffers from being filled with "cool" punk references and fantasies. Sometimes reading an author's idea of what the epitome of coolness is just silly. I feel the same way when I read descriptions of Harry Dresden.

JULIAN COMSTOCK by Robert Charles Wilson. A good yarn; kind of a post-apocalyptic once things are rebuilt to ca. 1870s technology (oil was eaten by a bacteria, so that's gone). As a result it reads a little Twain-ish. Main character is charmingly naive and the book is generally funny. One knock is that the author wears his biases on his sleeve; e.g. the religious right runs things from Colorado Springs. Overall: 4 out of 5 stars, or a strong 7.

jeb wrote:

OK, I finished China Miéville's PERDIDO STREET STATION and it was OK. Well written, but I thought it was all over the place and I wasn't really grabbed by the main conflict of the novel. So folks know, it is steampunk, through and through. If that is not your bag, avoid. I don't mind it, but he's a bit heavy with the "analytical engines" and "chymicals" and what not. I think he has some neat ideas, and I like them as background: the big ribs of Boneville, the Remade, and the Consortium, but I don't think he really married them well--it's like he picked the wrong main thread to tie these concepts together.

I enjoyed Perdido Street Station a lot, but I think the followup, The Scar, is much better. If you liked the first one enough to give that a go, I think you'll enjoy it.

Perdido Street Station was steampunk before steampunk was an Internet darling thing. I bought the book about ten years ago, when the only other steampunk stuff out was DiFilippo's Steampunk Trilogy of short stories (hasn't aged well, really), and some earlier Powers/Blaylock novels (Powers ages well, Blaylock's steampunk was always crap.)

Now that every idiot thinks gluing gears to shit and jamming a monocle in your eye makes you steampunk, I have a hard time with it. I love the idea, but the execution is so often very poor. Sturgeon strikes again, I guess.

I haven't been reading much recently. Finished Pynchon's Against the Day finally (sweet jesus what a slog that was), about to finish up Chabon's The Yiddish Policemen's Union (enjoying it), have Mieville's The City and the City in the queue next.

Not Sure wrote:

I haven't been reading much recently. Finished Pynchon's Against the Day finally (sweet jesus what a slog that was), about to finish up Chabon's The Yiddish Policemen's Union (enjoying it), have Mieville's The City and the City in the queue next.

You have excellent taste in literature, sir. And I don't (just) say that because China's a friend of mine. 'City and the City', in my mind, fails on two levels, though I liked it: China doesn't harbor a childhood love of mystery novels, and so the passion and the inner genre knowledge aren't quite there (a fault I think shared by Iron Council). CatC also fails as being representative of the mystery genre, which I know was one of his goals.

Pynchon always takes effort, but that effort is always rewarded (not unlike Joyce, though they are very different writers).

I always recommend China, Bakker, and Daniel Abraham to my MFA pals looking to slum a bit in genre fiction. Bakker has his flaws as a writer (what the fuck does a scranc look like? you won't know from his books), but his prose is good, which is to say it's better than 99% of people writing in fantasy fic today. Abraham manages to dodge most (if not all) of the annoying accreted tropes of genre fiction. If nothing else, I'd force anyone who wanted to write genre fic to read him simply for his characters - yes, yes, you can write a middle-aged woman (who is not royalty, or a warrioress, or a bitch) as a fascinating, powerful character in her own right.

wolvendancer wrote:

Pynchon always takes effort, but that effort is always rewarded (not unlike Joyce, though they are very different writers).

Against the Day just wasn't as rewarding as I'd hoped. I've read all Pynchon's stuff except Mason & Dixon (despite owning two copies) and Inherent Vice. Against the Day was full of interesting settings and pastiches, but the characters were all flat, and there were hundreds of them to keep straight (I'm not really joking, I had to take notes on the first few chapters until it became clear who was a throwaway and who wasn't). The book ping-pongs back and forth between various sets of these characters, sometimes not seeing someone for a few hundred pages, then sort of wheezes to a stop after a brief rushed set of roll-call chapters.

Brilliant writing on nearly any individual page, but most of the time it felt less like a novel and more like an aerobics class. I'm used to Pynchon's extended derails and flights of fancy, but I didn't feel that they really went anywhere or meant anything in this book.

About Mieville, F:AT is the weirdest small world on the Internet, I think. I've read almost his stuff as well, except Un Lun Dun and now Kraken (on the list), including most of the published short stories. Fabulous writer, and I always make an effort to find out what he's doing in a new book.

I'm of two minds here, wolvendancer. One mind is that I want to know more about Daniel Abraham, as well written SF/Fantasy books would be up my alley right now. The other mind wants to pick your brain about the concept of genre fiction as slum. From the way you write; I assume you are on my side, where books is books and who cares what they are about as long as they're good.

Which comes back to the bigger question we have discussed before--why do fiction authors get broken out by genre at the library or bookstore? SF/Fantasy over here, Westerns over there, and the Romance room is behind you. Young Adult is in the east wing, next to Mystery. Why don't they just have "fiction?" This gets more cocked up when you have an author like Neal Stephenson, where half his books are in one section and the others are in fiction. Am I thinking about this wrong? Is it because shitloads of these genre lit books are ~bad~? Is it because these genres tend to publish in trilogies or octologies or whatever?

I think it's because the main consumers of genre fiction wouldn't be caught dead shopping in the "Fiction" section, anymore than the MFA lit snobs would be seen poking around in Mystery or Fantasy (except the cool ones, who still often treat it like a trip to the porno shop).

People like what they like, and most of them want to stay with what they like. If they like bodice-ripper romances, they want another just like that. Same with fantasy/sci-fi/horror, etc. The bookstores are making it easy on their customers by putting those books together, which helps their sales.

For people with wider tastes, it can be more difficult. I solved that problem for myself by changing my shopping habits. One, I just buy fewer books and use my library. If I put a hold on something, I pick it up at the same desk no matter where they stored it. Two, if I am going to buy a book, it's usually from Amazon, who operates the same way. All books treated the same, all delivered in a nice cardboard box.

(also, I've never seen Stephenson get shelved outside of SciFi/Fantasy. That's an oddity to me. I can think of other examples, though, so I get your larger point.)

"slumming" is tongue-in-cheek, I think. However, the truth is that genre writers get no respect in the lit world. Never have, never will. It's one of the reasons I can't hang with the lit world, even if my book tastes often tend towards highbrow. I like the books I like, whether they're lofty lit or trashy pulp.

Not Sure wrote:

(also, I've never seen Stephenson get shelved outside of SciFi/Fantasy. That's an oddity to me. I can think of other examples, though, so I get your larger point.)

"slumming" is tongue-in-cheek, I think. However, the truth is that genre writers get no respect in the lit world. Never have, never will. It's one of the reasons I can't hang with the lit world, even if my book tastes often tend towards highbrow. I like the books I like, whether they're lofty lit or trashy pulp.

From a sales perspective, I can see the draw of grouping like that, but I can also see the flaw, in that a reader may not realize a book is "young adult," like say, THE BOOK THIEF (happened to me-it was for book club and I looked all over B&N before finding it).

I mention Stephenson because his QUICKSILVER, THE CONFUSION, and SYSTEM OF THE WORLD books are historical fiction, through and through and don't even make sense in science fiction/fantasy. He is double-shelved at my local library. On the flip side, you have Cormac McCarthy, who could be reasonably triple shelved for his westerns (THE BORDER TRILOGY, BLOOD MERIDIEN), sci-fi (THE ROAD), and general fiction (SUTTREE, OUTER DARK), but he's almost always single-shelved, because he kicks ass and is graded "literature." I can't find it now, but there is an interview in which he was asked about writing a genre fiction novel and he prickled a bit. It's a label that authors are starting to resist. Why does Philip K. Dick's alternate history novel (THE MAN IN THE HIGH CASTLE) get tossed in SF/Fan and Michael Chabon's (THE YIDDISH POLICEMAN'S UNION) and Philip Roth's (THE PLOT AGAINST AMERICA) do not?* Is it because Dick wrote science fiction novels first? Or maybe he wrote too many of them?

* Ursula LeGuin has some thoughts here as well . It's funny she used Roth to shield herself from genre horror--must have been before that book came out.

I'm not putting you or anyone here in the position of having to defend this practice. Lord knows, this place is more choir than congregation. The issue I am dealing with is that I like good writing--or rather, I can't abide (much) bad writing. I want to read something imaginative and creative--more so than run-of-the-mill counterfactual fiction. So I am looking for SF/Fantasy novels. But so many of these writers are so bad, and I don't know why. It reminds me of kosher restaurants. You have a captive audience--why bother to serve good food? It's not like they're going to go elsewhere.

jeb wrote:

(It reminds me of kosher restaurants. You have a captive audience--why bother to serve good food? It's not like they're going to go elsewhere.

And the portions are so small too!

Bookstores, unless they're odd funky curated ones (which don't exist outside compressed urban areas), and I have fundamentally grown apart. They're slaves to the margin just like anyone else, and most of them are staffed by a book equivalent of the guy at Guitar Center or Best Buy. They stock and shelve based on how to make things sell. I wouldn't be surprised if "Fiction" as we know it disappears completely from place like B&N or Borders (if Borders even survives) in the near future.

The shelves will go "New Releases", "Self-Help", "Romance", "Cookbooks", "Mystery", etc.

As a society, we get the bookstores we deserve.

I have to be honest, I don't really read fantasy anymore. I was never a huge fan to begin with, even though I read bunch of it when I was young. I love historical fiction, and "weird historical fiction", but it's a niche category (and weird is a niche of that). The most "fantasy" book I've read in the last few years was the first Temeraire novel by Naomi Novik (second one is in the queue), and despite the dragons it's more "weird historical" than fantasy.

Science Fiction is the same way. Aside from a few people I like to read, I stay the hell out of that aisle. I have literally hundreds of books I want to get around to reading, and not very many of them are scifi anymore.

The dog-whistle that may work for you is "Magical Realism", but that's gone a bit too broad as well. It's a good way to find lit writers working undercover in semi-fantasy stories, though.

I've seen your favorites list on Shelfari and here, let me think for a while, and maybe I can dredge up something you'd like. The first thing I'd recommend is Tim Powers, if you haven't read his stuff before. Declare or Last Call would be my top choices.

jeb wrote:

I'm of two minds here, wolvendancer. One mind is that I want to know more about Daniel Abraham, as well written SF/Fantasy books would be up my alley right now.

Give him a try. We both went to the same writer's workshop. I don't think he writes as well as China, but I think China's grasp of language is probably second only (in the fantasy field) to M. John Harrison and John Crowley right now, so that's not really a criticism. The prologue to Abraham's first novel in the 'Long Price Quartet' is a perfect 'fuck you, I'm going this way' to a lot of genre tropes people have complained about this thread.

The other mind wants to pick your brain about the concept of genre fiction as slum. From the way you write; I assume you are on my side, where books is books and who cares what they are about as long as they're good.

That's exactly my opinion.

Now, there will always be a special place in my heart for SF; I read Tolkien (and Pilgrim's Progress, but thankfully that didn't take) at age 6, and I think in some ways that 'did me in' as far as my tastes go. If there's one thing China and I agree on, it's that monsters are awesome. So if a reader can show me that he/she can write - that she has a feel for the language - I'm even happier if there are swords and lasers and monsters involved. But at this point in my life, I'll take a well-written book over a badly written one with the assorted SF bricolage.

Want to have your entire opinion of what can be done with fantasy tropes completely fucked? Read Iron Dragon's Daughter by Michael Swanwick. Be warned - you will find no quests there.

Which comes back to the bigger question we have discussed before--why do fiction authors get broken out by genre at the library or bookstore?

It pays to remember that these things started as marketing categories - everything else, from fandom to faux-elitist dismissal from the literati to the backlash from those opinions - came later. Books by Iain Banks and Iain m. Banks are split because people in suits have decided they will sell more that way. Of course, people like Chabon really give those people fits.

jeb wrote:

I want to read something imaginative and creative--more so than run-of-the-mill counterfactual fiction. So I am looking for SF/Fantasy novels.

Well, you've mentioned 'Blood Meridian', my favorite novel, so you've won my heart. Here's a list of brilliant non-mimetic fiction:

Iron Dragon's Daughter by Michael Swanwick

Little, Big and the Aegypt series by John Crowley

Viriconium by M. John Harrison

Bas Lag Trilogy by China Mieville

Gormenghast books by Mervyn Peake

House on the Borderland by William Hope Hodgson

Crash by J. G. Ballard

Ficciones by Jorge Luis Borges

That'll get you started. If you need more, just ask.

The Iron Dragon's Daughter is cool, but the absence of plot in the last part of the book bothered me. Things happen, but they are so disconnected as written that all sense of narrative breaks down. I guess it was deliberate, since none of the other Swanwick books had this problem.

I re-read most of my Tim Powers books last year, but I skipped Declare. It jumps around the timeline too much, so you need to read it all in one sitting, if possible, or in just a few days. Otherwise, it becomes difficult to remember what is going on and when. I agree with the recommendation of Last Call, and also think highly of On Stranger Tides, which was shamelessly ripped off by the Pirates of the Caribbean movies. Powers must have worked out a settlement with Disney, because now On Stranger Tides is going to be the fourth movie of the series.

I haven't read On Stranger Tides in a long time, I should re-read that. It was out of print for so long I had to buy an ex-library copy on Amazon.

Declare is probably my favorite, just because of the spy-story background and the careful attention to real (but strange) details in the construction of that novel.

Shellhead wrote:

The Iron Dragon's Daughter is cool, but the absence of plot in the last part of the book bothered me. Things happen, but they are so disconnected as written that all sense of narrative breaks down. I guess it was deliberate, since none of the other Swanwick books had this problem.

The key to 'Iron Dragon's Daughter' is that it is a literary novel written by manipulating genre tropes. It has a very tightly controlled story arc and a meticulously planned narrative progression (see: 'plot'), but it is revealed in a way more akin to a James Joyce short story than a genre novel. That's a combination that's very challenging to both 'literary' and 'genre' fiction audiences. The former are busy scoffing at the elves, the latter are wondering where the plot is.

Declare has a great premise. But somehow Powers didn't bring the various elements together to my satisfaction. I give him credit for an unusually realistic depiction of espionage, but it's less interesting than the cartoonish James Bond stuff.