Valley/Radiant Games -- Up Front Fiasco

You don't shit where you eat. Same reason they don't rebuff MayDay after I showed with zero uncertainty that they're bad actors, instead of just griping like the rest of the Cult of the AntiSeth do.

It's a money thing, and they hide under the guise of "be positive about the hobby" for cover.

I don't blame them, they have a business to run and they've chosen to make decisions that might be viewed as turning a blind eye to bad actors, but at the end of the day, they do more good than harm by orders of magnitude.

I just have a big problem with lack of righteousness. If I, personally, want to give a crook $40 and he says he will give me a game, so be it, I made that decision, if I get taken I get taken. For a community head to post a statement that says "hey guys, everything's cool, keep them dollars comin'" is despicable.

I don't think it goes that far. They're just incompetent. I don't think one should attribute malice where it's just blatant incompetence. Moderation being directed towards a site face and goal doesn't qualify, in my mind. If people are too silly to pay attention, that's on them.

Bull, I'm not entirely sure that up until just now that anyone knew the scope of the situation. Rumors are one thing, but when someone posts a court decision indicating wrongdoing, well, that's entirely a different thing.

Sure, BGG will let pukes advertise, but for every 1 guy who says they're scum, there's another to defend. It's not in their interests to choose sides, since they lose advertising on one end if they choose to stop allowing it, and they gain nothing on the other side, since BGG people would still go to BGG if Aldie was caught smoking crack while being blown by a 15 year old boy. Some people will overlook a lot because they can't be bothered to have things like moral certitude.

SuperflyTNT wrote: Bull, I'm not entirely sure that up until just now that anyone knew the scope of the situation. Rumors are one thing, but when someone posts a court decision indicating wrongdoing, well, that's entirely a different thing.

I'm almost certain that the posts Phil was making while the Up Front campaign was running were about how he had been awarded victories in court over Valley, not about ongoing things. I could be wrong, it was a while ago and I only glanced at it.

I feel you, Bull, but what I'm getting at is that Phil saying "these fuckers owe me money" is hearsay. It's completely irrelevant to BGG, who has no interest in taking sides.

Until the court documents came to light, they had no idea whether Phil was simply a disenchanted crank trying to stir up trouble or had actual cause. And BGG shouldn't be playing referee between two parties publicly...it degenerates into a he-said-she-said that doesn't serve anyone.

SuperflyTNT wrote: Until the court documents came to light, they had no idea whether Phil was simply a disenchanted crank trying to stir up trouble or had actual cause. And BGG shouldn't be playing referee between two parties publicly...it degenerates into a he-said-she-said that doesn't serve anyone.

It's what they did though.

I didn't see that, Simon. I thought they just kind of ignored it, went on with business as usual, and when Phil started making personal attacks, they gave him a time-out. Not for what he said, but how he said it.

SuperflyTNT wrote: I feel you, Bull, but what I'm getting at is that Phil saying "these fuckers owe me money" is hearsay. It's completely irrelevant to BGG, who has no interest in taking sides.

I agree, but they took VG/RG's side while the KS campaign was active by publishing a one sided statement as news.

Bull Nakano wrote:

SuperflyTNT wrote: I feel you, Bull, but what I'm getting at is that Phil saying "these fuckers owe me money" is hearsay. It's completely irrelevant to BGG, who has no interest in taking sides.

I agree, but they took VG/RG's side while the KS campaign was active by publishing a one sided statement as news.

I think this is bit disingenuous. Eric Martin decided to post the statement from Valley/Radiant in his BGG News column, but it was clearly labeled as to who it was from, and was in no way endorsed by Eric. When you say "they published a one-sided statement as news" you make it sound like they just took the VG/RG press released and passed it off as an objective news story - which is absolutely not true.

Geoff