Value-add to faith

Barney, those thoughts and feelings are natural, and will only fade with time. In the mean-time, I can suggest a couple of practical things that may help-

Getting up at 5am isn't the worst way to start the day, so maybe don't try to sleep but instead make it your new wake-up time and work around it. I don't know what your morning routine is usually, but maybe that gives you a couple of quiet hours to do something with.

Secondly, meditation might help with clearing your mind. Not to try and totally suppress your emotions about the situation, but to give you the mental clarity to face them on your own terms. I think it's really important to feel those emotions, and fully, but to do so when you choose to.

I feel for you, and can empathize a lot with your situation.

Great advice guys.

I like the idea of just getting out of bed when it happens. Start my day, maybe go to work earlier, just run with it.

That's two people that have suggested meditation and Stern is always talking about it, might be a great idea. It's funny you use the term mental clarity, that's what my ex told me I should get on this trip I'm on right now. I need to find peace of mind.

I think I need to start appreciating the little things more and finding joy where can. My happiest moment in the past month was cuddling with my little girl and falling asleep together. I remember being so happy, it was beautiful. I need to do more of those moments.

It's human nature to assume your ex is having non stop fun but its often not the case. I need to stop thinking about who's she with and how happy she is. It puts me into a bubble and I can't appreciate everything else going on. I need to start fighting those thought patterns.


Storm, you shouldn't live a life of regret like that. I fell down that way a month ago when I took accountability for my failed marriage. I begged forgiveness from my ex who gave it to me, I felt better after that and moved on. I hope that she doesn't ask me ever for forgiveness for what she's done, that would be a difficult conversation.

Thanks again guys, big hugs

stormseeker75 wrote: Man, I don't know about that last part. I jumped right into a relationship after I told my ex I wanted out. And I know she's dealt with that because I'm with someone and she is not. I feel guilty as fuck for that.

To be honest with you guys, I constantly think that I fucked up and shouldn't have gotten divorced. Like I moved too fast and should have thought things through. And I constantly wonder if I can go back and fix it. I have a really good life now and I'm generally happy but my guilt of hurting her fucking kills me.

This is a very interesting perspective and kind of matches my first divorce (22 yrs ago). I could look at it and say I really shouldn't have got divorced. There was no anger in the divorce proceedings just exhaustion, from my perspective. I met her and our 23 yr old son in Geneva a couple of weeks ago, when I was there on business. She is as funny and nice as when I first met her. I was a total dick in finishing this relationship but now it's gone. So I don't necessarily agree that no one says 'that was a bad divorce'.

On Barneys issues of sleeping. Oh yeah, I went through that with added fun of hearing her antics through the wall. I actually did start work earlier (I'm a morning guy anyway) and it worked for me until it got to the point where I didn't give a fuck anymore.

Let me put it this way. You can go out and start screwing other people, it's a legitimate strategy, but I don't think you should do it (like she did). None of the relationships you get out of that are likely to be worth a shit, since they're almost always really about the end of your other relationship and not the person you're with.

I'd argue that you should resist the urge and wait at least a 2-3 months. Live with the misery a bit---don't wallow in it or do anything unhealthy, but try to rebuild a life and yourself as a single person. Have those thoughts about faith, whatever. That processing (the loss, the internal relationship postmortem, etc) needs to happen. IMHO, you should do it now rather than dragging it out or having it happen while you're with someone else.

My wife once went through 2-3 long relationships with little break between them, all of which were fucked up in some way. She said the healthiest thing she has ever done was intentionally take a break from relationships for a year or two. Eventually we met and got married, but she spent a lot of time thinking about who she wanted to be and what her next relationship needed to be like before that happened. She has said if I asked her out in that period (I was married at the time anyway, but hypothetically) she would have refused.

Barney, maybe there is something to meditation. If it helps bring happiness and joy in the moment then I'm all for it. I think that is the hardest thing to do in times like this.

Thinking about what your ex is doing or how much fun she's having is really just another way of focusing on the fun you think you are losing out on with her yourself. For me, I had to realize that I really wasn't all that joyful or having that much fun with her most of the time when we were together anyway, so it really wasn't that much of a loss in that sense. I think our minds trick us into thinking things were so much better than they really were. If you are already figuring that out, which it sounds like you are when you mention needing to appreciate the little things, then I think you are in a pretty good place to start with.

I remember this feeling. This movie encapsulates it perfectly.

Great points, Gary. In the long run Barney, you need to be happy with yourself before you are ready for a healthy relationship again. Other things that I did to get through it included: lots of exercise, keeping busy with hobbies, working harder while at work, all basically just focusing more on every other part of my life. Oh, and talking obsessively about the situation with friends, until they were bored and finally even I was bored with the topic. Then I was back on track.

airmarkus wrote:
Thinking about what your ex is doing or how much fun she's having is really just another way of focusing on the fun you think you are losing out on with her yourself. For me, I had to realize that I really wasn't all that joyful or having that much fun with her most of the time when we were together anyway, so it really wasn't that much of a loss in that sense. I think our minds trick us into thinking things were so much better than they really were. .

THIS, omg this. This is exactly what's happening to me. My closest friend and sister have been constantly trying to remind me that I was unhappy, depressed and clearly not in love in the last two years of my marriage. My mind is totally tricking me into thinking this was the love of my life, when that's maybe and probably a kneejerk reaction to this situation. You've been able to bridge this problem into this sleeping issue in a way I hadn't considered. This should help. I keep comparing what's going on right now to what we were like in the first years. I should try and remember what it was like near the end.

Gary, that was perfect. That's exactly what's happening. I think I've even slammed pillows around like that while yelling at myself to stop, stop, stop thinking this stuff.

Was going to PM, but in case anyone else is interested, I (and my wife) really dig this spiritual guy, Rob Bell. Apparently he caused a lot of waves because he "preaches" that hell isnt fire and brimstone - it's not living a beautiful life NOW. And that's what we're here to do is live present lives where we accept our place to bring about the life we want - because that's how we make others' lives better too.

Anyway, I'm not trying to prosthelytize so if you (or others) get something out of this then great. Just another perspective to review, and either accept or reject as useful to you right now.

Rob Bell has a new show that just aired on the Oprah network and the first episode I'd highly recommend if you've got the channel - it's all about wrestling with the "bad stuff" that's happened in our lives and owning it the way it's easier to own your 1980s clothing/hair cut. It's a part of YOU and your story. And since you get to choose to be awesome each and every day, that's just (significant) back story!

He also has an on demand "class" that I got my wife for Xmas. Cant yet attest to the specifics, but it's about finding meaning in the everyday life - www.oprah.com/spirit/Rob-Bell-Finding-De...Meaning-in-Your-Life

Keep on posting - we're here for ya!

Barney, I think airmarkus is correct. You feel misery not because you need or miss her (okay may be you are), but more because you are feeling defeated.

I often see this happen with people. There was a boyfriend who usually ignored his girlfriend or even treated her bad, but when she got with someone else he felt jealous as hell. The girlfriend thought that his boyfriend actually loved him but didn't like to show his feeling excessively. I told her the other possibility, that the boyfriend didn't care about her, but just don't like feeling defeated. I turned out to be correct. This is an extreme example, but I've seen a *lot* of this happening with varying degree.

Understanding where your misery *actually* come from might help you resolving it.

Hey Barney,

Your situation sucks and I'm sorry.

While I don't necessarily disagree with the faith-based suggestions made in this thread, since you're non-religious, I'll throw in some other options that are aimed more at the non-religious folks:

1. Grief Beyond Belief, www.griefbeyondbelief.org . While this is mainly aimed at people dealing with the death of a loved one, it has lots of advice generally for coping with emotional trauma of all kinds. There's as many tactics as there are people, but mainly community.

2. Parenting Beyond Belief, www.parentingbeyondbelief.com . Forums and so on. There is also a book they printed (of the same name) that have some advice on dealing with divorce.

3. Not really a resource, but food for thought:
freethoughtblogs.com/reasonabledoubts/20...rch-with-luke-galen/
That is a podcast about happiness, belief, and church membership. Spoiler: belief has basically nothing to do with it; it's all about community. Isolated believers are more depressed than average, as are isolated nonbelievers. Connected believers and nonbelievers do about equally well. So go connect with people! Whether it's us jerks here, or a local group, or whatever.

Bottom line: I am just providing options. You should ultimately do whatever works for you, and more importantly, your kid, no matter where it lies on the belief/nonbelief spectrum.

Thanks guys, great ideas and leads for me to explore.

Sevej, I really think you and airmarkus are onto something. I suspect I was an ignoring husband and all this sadness is the result of feeling defeated. Even though I think the misery is coming from needing and missing her so badly, I think my mind is taking shortcuts because of what happened. It's somewhat terrifying to think that I possibly didn't actually care about her. I can't accept that and I hope that wasn't the case.

I suppose time will clarify these issues for me.

I feel like I would still take her back immediately if she changed her mind or expressed regret again.

My son's mom and I split close to two years ago when he was three as well. At the time I was trying to open a restaurant that had gone wildly over budget and was really testing the limits of my sanity. Since we're co-parenting, there was no clean break like there'd been with all my other failed relationships. We had to see each other and speak to one another all the fucking time. It was the worst.

So I threw myself into work. I got the restaurant open and soon after made moves to renovate and open another bar. I also threw myself even more heartily into all the booze, drugs, and casual sex that come part and parcel with the bar business. On paper it looked great, and I should have been having the time of my life, but I was completely miserable. That whole 'go get laid' bit that your friends tell you is bullshit. It made me feel even worse. The Hiroshima like hangovers didn't help the depression any either. The days I had my son I was fine, and handled everything I needed to. Perfect father/business owner/etc., but I went on a mini bender every time I dropped him off at his mothers house and midway through would feel awful about myself. And I knew it had to stop if I was going to be the father and the man that I wanted to be.

There's a lot of well meant sentiment here that you need to be there for your daughter, and I couldn't agree more. But what I found out was that in order for me to be there for my son, I had to get right with myself first. It's like when they tell you to put the oxygen mask on yourself first, and then on your kid while the planes going down. You can't help her out if you can't breathe. So make sure you're taking time to breathe. Do some things for yourself the days you're by yourself. Get out of bed and go to the gym, or take a hike, or ride your bike. Find a therapist and talk about how sad and pissed off you are. Go out for a steak with your buddies. Watch the rangers beat the habs. Trust me man, it'll make things better all around if you remember to take care of yourself.

On the original topic, I'm not religious by any stretch and I'm not sure that I could even describe myself honestly as spiritual, but the serenity prayer gives me quite a bit of strength. I learned it as a very young man in a very dark time and since then I've never found a situation where it didn't make me feel a bit better. Assuming I remembered it at the time of course. The alcoholics start it with the word 'god,' but I prefer the 'abridged' version:

Grant me the serenity to accept the things I can not change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.

Good luck buddy. Hope things get better soon.

Sorry, posted that twice.

Black Barney wrote: Sevej, I really think you and airmarkus are onto something. I suspect I was an ignoring husband and all this sadness is the result of feeling defeated. Even though I think the misery is coming from needing and missing her so badly, I think my mind is taking shortcuts because of what happened. It's somewhat terrifying to think that I possibly didn't actually care about her. I can't accept that and I hope that wasn't the case.

Hell no Barney, I'd never think you that way (as an ignoring husband). It's just that you need to see things objectively. I'm sure you didn't get here without plenty of considerations. And *of course* you care. But how much is it caused by you caring or feeling defeated. Ask yourself, if you hear *nothing* about her right now, would you feel *this* terrible? When you start to shed your feelings of defeat, you *will* shed plenty of your misery. Been there, done that.