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Given Up

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03 Nov 2015 18:31 #214091 by Count Orlok
Given Up was created by Count Orlok
[Here lies personal bullshit somewhat related to gaming, so be warned]

Yesterday was a strange experience, and I'm still mulling it over. I'm not sure many can understand, but I certainly think the community here can at least sympathize.

I sold the entirety of my Vampire: The Eternal Struggle (a Richard Garfield CCG) collection yesterday, after 10 years of collecting, deck-building, playing, discussions, disagreements, vendettas, and friendships. At one point, I was playing several times a week, building new decks in-between, and generally looking forward to the designated time each week we got together and played. I really enjoyed a lot of my time, but as you all surely know, it eventually loses its luster.

Sometimes I feel like gaming is something akin to (without any personal experience, I should say) addiction, where first it starts out as thrilling, then as its charms wears away, you keep desperately chasing that thrill, despite how grating or frustrating it may become. What finally broke it for me was leaving the country for some time. Once you're forced to step away and you realize just how little you care about that game and that experience anymore, it's really difficult to come back to it with much enthusiasm. I tried playing here or there, but as the game group morphed, and people I was once fond of began coming less often, and those that bothered me became mainstays, I had little reason to even bother.

So here I am, having decisively given up the last game I played with any enthusiasm for good. I'm not quite sure how I feel about it. I also feel like I've cut off some great friendships I made, despite the fact that I'm free to see these players whenever. Yet was the friendship entirely about our mutual interest in the game?

I've sold off most of my games over the last few years, and now the last game I put much thought or effort into. I'm not a very happy person generally, and I've had to come to conclusion that games were worthless to me unless they brought me some kind of happiness. I didn't want to be that person, going through the ropes desperately grasping for that confluence of players, game, and environment that through some obscure alchemical process created those moments of unselfconscious joy. Those days are gone, and I've given up. Perhaps it's the threat of moving cross-country again, the threat of finishing my Ph.d. without employment, the threat of a career change. I'm not sure what exactly. But I had to make some changes.

So now what?

When I was younger I used to spend most of my days playing music, but I found it becoming difficult to continue. I'm glad to say that I've come back to it, and that it feels great to play instruments again, the tactility of the wood, the metal strings, the motions. It feels great to learn something new, to feel the results of it, nearly immediately as I bumble my way through a piece, and on towards a polished sheen.

What does it mean to give up something that was once so meaningful - even if just a game? What have you all given up - how has it been? If games have receded for you, what has taken their place?
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03 Nov 2015 18:55 #214094 by boothwah
Replied by boothwah on topic Given Up
This is pretty much how I feel every year when they stop making the McRib.
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03 Nov 2015 18:59 #214095 by RobertB
Replied by RobertB on topic Given Up
I played WoW as a semi-hardcore (three nights a week, 3 hours a night) raider for 5 years or so. It was a guild that was just barely big enough to run 25-mans, but these were awesome players and good people, and I had a great time for a while. But it gradually went from feeling like fun to feeling like a job, so Mists of Pandaria was my cue to call it quits.

What do I do now? A lot of the same sorts of things, without having to follow a raiding schedule; gaming, reading, fishing, dragging my daughter around to her stuff, that sort of thing. I miss my WoW friends - a LOT. But when I go back to say hi, and maybe fire up my toons for a little bit, I realize there was a reason I quit. My WoW friends are wonderful people, that are spending a lot of time doing things that aren't all that much fun for me now. I don't regret the time I spent playing, at all. But I'm not going back.
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03 Nov 2015 19:02 - 03 Nov 2015 19:05 #214097 by boothwah
Replied by boothwah on topic Given Up
But seriously, I get what you are saying - Quitting WoW after running a successful 25 man raiding group for 2 years was......both liberating and hollow. I still stay in touch with a few of the folks that I spent inordinate amounts of time chasing pixels with, but not many. I'm pretty much at that point in my life that I realize with my personality I can't play anything unless I can have all the stuff (games systems/ccg's/vidja games) - I'm miserable playing it without all the pieces/in the most optimum way/etc.

Like you, I got back into playing my electric guitar, as a result of quitting online gaming and it's been a real good season.

JINX EDIT - RobertB posting a similar experience - I quit just before Pandaria too
Last edit: 03 Nov 2015 19:05 by boothwah. Reason: Simulposting with Robert
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03 Nov 2015 19:25 - 03 Nov 2015 19:27 #214099 by Gary Sax
Replied by Gary Sax on topic Given Up
All it means is that you've changed. And that is not a bad thing at all. This is an area where I think the Barnes attitude towards games is right---if you don't get any pleasure or have any enthusiasm for gaming, and you feel like it's holding you back, I think you should definitely sell your stuff. Here's the other place he's right---you can buy any of this shit again if ever, at any point, you feel like you want to return. Even if you did have to pay more (you might, you probably won't), it's no big deal.

For now, do music. If that ever starts to feel stale, sell that shit and do something else. There's no scorecard at the end of your life that you get more points for being better at one hobby and sticking with it longer.

But feel free to continue posting here, even if you don't own a single fucking game! Barney doesn't really game either (well, recently he has started to again...).
Last edit: 03 Nov 2015 19:27 by Gary Sax.
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03 Nov 2015 19:42 #214102 by the_jake_1973
Replied by the_jake_1973 on topic Given Up
I was the head ref for a roller derby team here in Grand Rapids for about 5 years. It took it's toll on me, I was burned out and hated having many weekends in the summer (travel games, tourneys, scrimmages) taken up by a pastime that isn't exactly glamorous. I also found I did not care for many of the refs that I met since they had never played a sport and didn't seem to understand the concept of 'let 'em play'. Too many people in stripes that made the game about them and pedantic rules lawyers.

It has been very nice to have my weekends and evenings free. Summers of kayaking, wine tastings, camping, etc. Even so, I found myself wanting to do that again. In part because I miss the players and some of the refs. Partly because my wife really wants me to get back into it. That is an oddity in the derby world. I recently contacted a startup team that needs some officiating help as they have no refs. It is closer to where I live now so the travel after work is not so bad. Now I just need to ensure that I maintain that live/derby balance.

I think sometimes you can come back to the things you love, except ex's. The time and distance away has helped me see the things I loved about the sport and people playing it. We'll see how it turns out the second time around.
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03 Nov 2015 20:26 - 03 Nov 2015 20:27 #214103 by Michael Barnes
Replied by Michael Barnes on topic Given Up

Gary Sax wrote: All it means is that you've changed. And that is not a bad thing at all. This is an area where I think the Barnes attitude towards games is right---if you don't get any pleasure or have any enthusiasm for gaming, and you feel like it's holding you back, I think you should definitely sell your stuff. Here's the other place he's right---you can buy any of this shit again if ever, at any point, you feel like you want to return. Even if you did have to pay more (you might, you probably won't), it's no big deal.


What I think a lot of people don't get is that when you cash out of something- whether it's one game or your whole collection- all you are doing is divesting ownership of the physical product. All the good times you had collecting, playing, painting, etc.- you're always going to own that. I've sold "favorite" games plenty of times, and when I've decided to come back to them, I've rebought to have new experiences...and haven't regretted the periods where I didn't have ownership of whatever it is, when it would have been sitting on a shelf, cluttering up my life. I actually find it gratifying to pass on something I've really enjoyed to someone else to enjoy themselves...I think that's much more rewarding, actually, than looking at my shelf and thinking "maybe we can play that game sometime within the next year". And a lot of times I'm looking at a game thinking "I like this game, but I like taking my family out for pizza more".

But people get bound up and attached to stuff...I've got my copy of Mare Nostrum up for sale right now (SHILL) and man, that is a storied copy of the game. Virtually all of the great Atlanta gamers have played that copy- Launius, Kenyon, Avery, Branham, Baden, Zoghby, all of the Hellfire Club and so on. It was a fixture at my store. Lots of great memories, and honestly that's why I've kept it around even though it hasn't been played in ages. But you know what, sometimes you've got to realize that ownership is overrated and letting go of something- even if it's an entire hobby- can free you up to do other things.

It is kind of sobering when you step away from something- like I remember it being with Magic- and realize how consumptive it was.

So yeah man, let that shit go. See if you care about it six months, a year from now and if you do there's always eBay. If not, use all of that time, money and energy to do something else that brings you joy.

As for Black Barney discussing games...every time he starts talking about games, I just think about SpongeBob Squarepants trying to get into a conversation at a neurosurgery conference.
Last edit: 03 Nov 2015 20:27 by Michael Barnes.
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03 Nov 2015 21:05 #214105 by Shellhead
Replied by Shellhead on topic Given Up
I started playing Jyhad (V:tes) just days after getting back from GenCon in 1994. Within a few months, I found a regular group that played on a weekly basis. Life got in the way, so there were long stretches where I didn't play as often, but I kept playing until the year after White Wolf finally pulled the plug on the game. 2011, maybe. The last few years were somewhat less enjoyable though, as White Wolf ramped up the power of the cards somewhat in the later expansions, to entice old players to keep buying new cards. I fell somewhat behind in the local metagame those last few years, though I could still win a game from time to time. Just last month, some of the local players invited me to an impromptu game, but I already had other plans for that night.

Even if nobody around here ever played Jyhad again, I'm hanging on to my cards for the rest of my life. I have many fond memories of the game, the players, and the setting. I even co-designed a big Kindred of the East expansion for the game with a player in Australia, though we submitted it for possible publication just weeks before White Wolf cancelled the game. I can understand why someone else might sell their cards and move on, but I'm too much of a sentimental bastard to do it.
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03 Nov 2015 21:11 #214107 by Shellhead
Replied by Shellhead on topic Given Up

Count Orlok wrote: What does it mean to give up something that was once so meaningful - even if just a game? What have you all given up - how has it been? If games have receded for you, what has taken their place?


Now that I'm done with memory lane for the moment, I will answer your question. What does it mean to give up something that was once so meaningful? It means whatever you want it to mean. Experiences pass through our lives, sometimes briefly and sometimes for many years. Relationships, jobs, pets, hobbies, etc. No matter how much you cling, everything eventually changes. Some doors close behind you forever, and other doors are just waiting to be re-opened if you choose.
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03 Nov 2015 23:26 #214109 by D_S
Replied by D_S on topic Given Up

Count Orlok wrote: When I was younger I used to spend most of my days playing music, but I found it becoming difficult to continue. I'm glad to say that I've come back to it, and that it feels great to play instruments again, the tactility of the wood, the metal strings, the motions. It feels great to learn something new, to feel the results of it, nearly immediately as I bumble my way through a piece, and on towards a polished sheen.

What does it mean to give up something that was once so meaningful - even if just a game? What have you all given up - how has it been? If games have receded for you, what has taken their place?

I love playing music, too. I'm terrible at it, but I'd like to think that if I gave up my games, I'd go out and find other people to play with. Playing by myself, even when I'm recording & sharing with my brother, is not nearly as awesome as playing with others.

I gave up WoW a few years ago, and MtG a few years before that. My banjo's grown dusty but I've picked up the ukulele recently and I love it. People change up sometimes, that's ok.
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04 Nov 2015 01:09 - 04 Nov 2015 12:17 #214115 by SuperflyPete
Replied by SuperflyPete on topic Given Up
I've given up two games that were a huge part (read: near-obsession) of my gaming life: Heroscape and Attacktix. I played them both WaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaY too much, and I mean, like every day almost, and I'd travel all over the place to go play in tournaments, travel all over the place to go find them.

As it turns out, it became a business of a sort, once I realized that there were people just as crazy as me. Made a TON of money.

Quick short story: WalMart has a "no question asked" return policy if you have a receipt. I happen to have access to industrial x-rays. So, I would buy hundreds in blind booster packs, take them to my buddy's x-ray, scan them, and return the ones that didn't have super-rares. It was like Christmas. I made enough off that little side-gig to pay cash for my current car. There's something to be said about being a game nerd....especially one where you're playing a meta-economic game as part of the hobby!
Last edit: 04 Nov 2015 12:17 by SuperflyPete.

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04 Nov 2015 07:59 #214123 by Legomancer
Replied by Legomancer on topic Given Up
I will always rate Magic: the Gathering, as my all-time number one game. I bought a ton of it and enjoyed every last bit of it. I built goofy decks, themed decks, competitive decks, experimental decks. I looked at individual cards and tried to tweak uses out of them. I did only a handful of tournaments, local stuff, and mostly played "for fun" with friends. I was genuinely excited for each new release. I carried a copy of InQuest with me so I could design decks in my downtime. I stopped playing because I went back to college for a second degree and didn't have the time or money anymore. A few years ago I sold my collection for pennies on the dollar. Every now and then I get the desire to start again, but it never takes.

As Barnes said, I still have those memories. I still appreciate the game. I don't have to own the cardboard to know I had a great time with it. But I moved on to other things. I enjoyed my time with RPGs, but I sold all of those and moved on. Our interests change. we grow up and grow apart.

My login name here and on BGG is Legomancer, but I've barely touched my huge pile of Lego in years, despite constantly swearing that this will be the year I finally get back to building. I'm about ready to pack it up, though I'm not quite ready to sell it off. I've had some great times with it, but if this is the end, that's fine.

A common trap in nerd-dom is to think that the things we like define us, that we are these interests. They're not. There is no hole in *me* if I find Doctor Who doesn't appeal to me anymore. We've just parted ways. We do this all the time with actual human beings; it's okay to do it with things.
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04 Nov 2015 09:07 #214129 by san il defanso
Replied by san il defanso on topic Given Up
I used to do a lot of stage acting, and even got a change to direct a couple of amateur shows. It's definitely one of my deepest loves, but I do very little acting anymore. That's not because of games, but because of kids. I directed a show just after our first son was born, and there was one point when I looked at some pictures of him and realized I wasn't there for a lot of those best baby moments. At that point I figured it wasn't worth the sacrifice, and I haven't really done anything with that hobby since. Hopefully I can get back to it when my boys are older, but for right now it's something that has to take a back seat.

I haven't had to make that choice with games yet, but I suspect I will have to eventually. I'm studying conflict management (mediation, etc.) and once that really gets under way I doubt I'll be able to put in the playtime I do now. When that day comes I'm sure I'll miss gaming a bit, but it'll be worth it to really pursue something I'm passionate about.

So yeah, more power to you.
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04 Nov 2015 09:26 - 04 Nov 2015 09:27 #214132 by Gary Sax
Replied by Gary Sax on topic Given Up
I've, basically, given up gaming for about the last year or two now that tenure pressure is so intense and stressful. I don't think that my enthusiasm has waned but hopefully it's just my situation that is different. I suppose if I get to a less stressful place in my life with more time and I'm still not playing games I will give some thought to selling off some or all of my collection. Right now I'm kind of thinking it's just circumstances.
Last edit: 04 Nov 2015 09:27 by Gary Sax.

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04 Nov 2015 09:32 #214134 by Black Barney
Replied by Black Barney on topic Given Up
I used to Fock a lot of goats...
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