The Four

As I mentioned in that "What Books..." thread, I just read Scott Galloway's, The Four. I was introduced to him by that 30min youtube video someone posted. Now, I'm not going to go into all the kibbles and bits about why these are good or bad, but I'm interested in using the forum here like Cranberries' low rent social media.

Let's say, for whatever reason, you wanted to move your life out from under the shadow of these four. How would you do it? Would it be enough to make an impact? Or is their massive consolidation of power and wealth inevitable and we should all just learn to deal?

Apple - this is an easy one for me. I don't own an iphone or use itunes. in fact, besides an old mac laptop that hardly works (it needs to go), we have no apple products.

Google - This one is a bit trickier as i use it frequently at work to look up all sorts work related stuff. There's a trust built into it, but at the same time, I've pretty much given the power of information over to what they decide to return to my searches. That trust also makes it the default search engine at home. Is there an alternative search engine that's worth it? Bing still around?

Facebook - Oy vey. I think I started a post on FB in the past. I have a hate-hate-love relationship with it. FB makes it too easy to share photos with family and friends across the world, but with the rise of Deepfake and such do I really need pictures of my family plastered all over the internet? I pretty much stopped posting publicly in 2017 and I think the algorithm removed me from most of my friend's newsfeeds. I would have to ramp up posting again to get back into that positive feedback loop to push myself back into their lives. Don't think it's worth it. Also, I'm not happy at all that FB allowed fake news to influence the election here. No way is seeing pictures of my former co-workers' lunch worth Trump in office. On the upside, FB has made it very easy to meet local gamers and set up AoS games. Games that wouldn't have happened had I not been part of the local FB AoS group. There doesn't seem to be any local gaming forums anymore. Perhaps, my move here is to remove all personal photos, cull out the majority of 'friends' and simply operate some shadow account to stay involved in a few local groups to meet for face to face games?

Amazon - On the surface this one seems easy, as it's all about consumption,and I'm not really into that. However, I have had a Prime account for the past three years and it's awesome. Maybe too awesome. True story - There's a new book out I want. It retails for $25. Amazon Prime $15 with free shipping. I decide I'm going to skip amazon and by this book locally. Fortunately, one of the few brick and morter bookstores left (and I live in a large city) is near work. I check their site, they have in 5 copies. I go there during lunch to find out all 5 copies were ordered and have names on them, but they are getting more in later in the week and I put my name and number down for one. Now, I generally use my lunch period to run and workout. So, now to get this book locally, I'm going to miss two workouts, spend an extra $10, and get the book at some future point. Or I could have simply ordered it off Prime and it would have already been delivered to my desk. Damn. Doesn't seem worth it. I guess we could say, "well, the other retailers are dinosaurs and couldn't keep up". I don't think that's fair though. Amazon is playing a game no one else seems to be able to compete in,and the end game is likely to mean lots and lots of unemployment (robots in factories, cashier-less grocery stores, driverless trucks and drones, etc). Ironically, a recruiter just hit me up for two positions at the Whole Foods headquarters down the road. Dare I even consider working as part of this machine? Where does that put my contribution on the trajectory of our civilization? I don't like it. Also, at the end of the day the odds seem overwhelming and If I opt out, it just means my household will probably pay more for goods than our neighbors, putting us at a financial disadvantage in a way. Not even taking into account the time loss of driving around to various local shops.

Scott's book doesn't lay out the case for breaking up these four like that video did, but it's more about how they came to power. In the latter chapters he even talks a bit about how young workers can navigate within the new economy. Sounding almost as if learning to work within the shadow of the four is key. I guess his video on breaking them apart resonated more with me. Can it be done though? Should we even care?

NOTE - Beyond avoiding the four listed above, I'm well aware that other practices I employ are more harmful than good. Take for example Spotify. This is wonderful for me, but garbage for the artists. My selfishness and convenience keeps my account open. In reality, i know what I should probably do is be ok not having access to large amounts of music, and pay artists money through their bandcamp pages so they get rewarded directly.

I read Neuromancer in the mid-80's with the excitement that the future would be filled with mega-corporations and a cool online reality...I certainly can't complain 30 years later when that reality is on the verge of coming to fruition.

Chapel wrote: I read Neuromancer in the mid-80's with the excitement that the future would be filled with mega-corporations and a cool online reality...I certainly can't complain 30 years later when that reality is on the verge of coming to fruition.

Ha!
I suppose i shouldn't be surprised Im not enthused. My favorite character sorta within that genre and era...would prefer to shut it all off.

I have a few counterpoints although I agree with Galloway's premise that the four are way too big.

1. Apple - Don't integrate EVERYTHING, split it. If you have an iPhone, get an Android tablet. Don't use both iPhone and iTunes. Use MediaMonkey and Spotify instead to manage your music. If you have an iPad, get an Android phone or blackberry.
2. Google - There is no meaningful way to untether Alphabet AND Apple from your life without going analog. The tendrils are too deep. All phones are a binary choice now - iOS or Android. There's Blackberry, and some others (Commodore actually makes phones now..) but those are the only choices. There's dozens of search engines but none are as good as Google. So, just make sure to unlink as much of your private info as you can.
3. Facebook - I have a massive, diasporic family who I keep in touch with via FB. Some friends, too, but mostly Australian, European, and Canadian. It's a practical way to keep friendships and family connected. There's really no other way to do this, practically, unless you set up your own, private forum or user's group, which nobody will use (old people!). So, you're kind of stuck on the Zuck Nut if you want to have relationships with distant friends. I guess you could use a groupchat or something but I've tried that with my sisters and brothers and it doesn't work for shit.
4. Amazon - I like prime because of the TV. I don't buy enough shit to justify Amazon, so I think that I'll drop Prime this year and sign up for Hulu (which I didn't like when I had it before).

Worth noting:
2 Billion Android devices
1 Billion iDevices
1.5 Billion Windows devices

Mobile is becoming the norm in personal computing, and THAT is the dynamic shift that is enabling all of these total crushings of civil rights.

Chapel wrote: I read Neuromancer in the mid-80's with the excitement that the future would be filled with mega-corporations and a cool online reality...I certainly can't complain 30 years later when that reality is on the verge of coming to fruition.

I, personally, will enjoy being a Street Samurai.

Man, I hear you. I think a lot about this. I read a comical (and true!) report by goldman sachs about the economy where they were basically describing the motive of US business and said something to the effect of "the primary driver of corporate US business activities is market share and price setting power" rather than profit, which I think tells you a lot about what companies like the big 4 are really doing with their mergers, etc. I like to think even hardcore libertarians are uncomfortable with that.

My wife is trying to get amazon out of her life, specifically. It's really, really hard.

To get political outside of the politics thread, the vertical integration of large companies in the US to make them unavoidable to do business with (and set prices) is something we have the political tools to deal with. In fact, we created all of them during the early 20th century to fight this exact same problem. They've just been largely stripped of their teeth and there isn't political will to use them.

The tale of the added effort just to buy a damn book rings all too true. However, it's hard to argue that the most important resource any of us have is time. If something is going to save me time, I will often at least try it. I don't care if something costs me more money, if it gives me more time. So until someone can offer the kind of time savings that Amazon is offering, I'll keep using them.

Gary Sax wrote: My wife is trying to get amazon out of her life, specifically. It's really, really hard.

Can I ask why? Why she wants it out of her life that is.

Disclaimer: I am an Information Scientist, I think about this stuff almost daily.

FWIW, I think it is important to think about these things and to try to act. These massive changes to society are by no means forced upon us. The happy slave is still freedoms' worst enemy.
The way I see it, Scott Galloway teaches marketing, so he's more interested in describing what happens than in finding solutions. His answer in the video seems to be basically goverment action. Colin Crouch, a professor from England, describes the same problems with a more general scope and advises for people to set up and support local communities for trade and social life, so to basically try to push back the universal influence on every human interaction that capitalism goes for.
This maybe is more visible and virulent in the US, as being poor is even more widely considered as being your own fault for not working hard enough than over here in Europe. I might be wrong on this one.
Apple – I never owned an Apple poduct and probably never will. 'It works' is not a strong argument for me if no one can tell me why or how and users are not supposed to look behind the mirror.
Google – Impossible. I use DuckDuckGo, as it uses Google, but without the personalization. Of course, using Youtube gives all my data to Google, same as with using an android phone. I just don't need search results biased to my previous opinion. Using NoScript in my browser is a bit of a PITA but gives me great insight as to who watches my online behaviour and collects my data (spoiler: it's mostly Google).
I need Gmail for work, so my solution is to only use it for work.
Facebook – when I was invited to join about 15-20 years ago, facebook gave me a list of people I might know who already were on FB. I knew all of the people on the list, and there was no way of them knowing each other. Creepy. I never saw a reason to join, as obviously FB already knew I was there and where I was connected.
Amazon – that one's easy for me. If I like the brick and mortar store, I can support it by paying more. And waiting is no problem, because it wasn't a couple of years ago. First, the wages and working conditions for Amazon warehouse personnel are despicable. Second, I compare it to that Louie routine: someone sitting in a comfy chair flying through the sky needn't complain about bad wifi. But then I also gladly pay more for organic food if I can.

Music - I try to see as many live shows as possible. I stream DJ livesets from Soundcloud and listen to internet radio, which are both free.

Considering Neuromancer, Neal Stephenson's Diamond Age took that concept to show that the few who scored a job with the Global Corporations were set up for life, had to give up any hope for control of their destiny and had to be protected from the masses of the impoverished rest of the population.

Some more food for thought, if you're bored:
strikemag.org/bullshit-jobs
thereformedbroker.com/2017/10/16/just-own-the-damn-robots/

Mr. White wrote: As I mentioned in that "What Books..." thread, I just read Scott Galloway's, The Four. I was introduced to him by that 30min youtube video someone posted. Now, I'm not going to go into all the kibbles and bits about why these are good or bad, but I'm interested in using the forum here like Cranberries' low rent social media.

Let's say, for whatever reason, you wanted to move your life out from under the shadow of these four. How would you do it? Would it be enough to make an impact? Or is their massive consolidation of power and wealth inevitable and we should all just learn to deal?

Apple - this is an easy one for me. I don't own an iphone or use itunes. in fact, besides an old mac laptop that hardly works (it needs to go), we have no apple products.

Google - This one is a bit trickier as i use it frequently at work to look up all sorts work related stuff. There's a trust built into it, but at the same time, I've pretty much given the power of information over to what they decide to return to my searches. That trust also makes it the default search engine at home. Is there an alternative search engine that's worth it? Bing still around?

Facebook - Oy vey. I think I started a post on FB in the past. I have a hate-hate-love relationship with it. FB makes it too easy to share photos with family and friends across the world, but with the rise of Deepfake and such do I really need pictures of my family plastered all over the internet? I pretty much stopped posting publicly in 2017 and I think the algorithm removed me from most of my friend's newsfeeds. I would have to ramp up posting again to get back into that positive feedback loop to push myself back into their lives. Don't think it's worth it. Also, I'm not happy at all that FB allowed fake news to influence the election here. No way is seeing pictures of my former co-workers' lunch worth Trump in office. On the upside, FB has made it very easy to meet local gamers and set up AoS games. Games that wouldn't have happened had I not been part of the local FB AoS group. There doesn't seem to be any local gaming forums anymore. Perhaps, my move here is to remove all personal photos, cull out the majority of 'friends' and simply operate some shadow account to stay involved in a few local groups to meet for face to face games?

Amazon - On the surface this one seems easy, as it's all about consumption,and I'm not really into that. However, I have had a Prime account for the past three years and it's awesome. Maybe too awesome. True story - There's a new book out I want. It retails for $25. Amazon Prime $15 with free shipping. I decide I'm going to skip amazon and by this book locally. Fortunately, one of the few brick and morter bookstores left (and I live in a large city) is near work. I check their site, they have in 5 copies. I go there during lunch to find out all 5 copies were ordered and have names on them, but they are getting more in later in the week and I put my name and number down for one. Now, I generally use my lunch period to run and workout. So, now to get this book locally, I'm going to miss two workouts, spend an extra $10, and get the book at some future point. Or I could have simply ordered it off Prime and it would have already been delivered to my desk. Damn. Doesn't seem worth it. I guess we could say, "well, the other retailers are dinosaurs and couldn't keep up". I don't think that's fair though. Amazon is playing a game no one else seems to be able to compete in,and the end game is likely to mean lots and lots of unemployment (robots in factories, cashier-less grocery stores, driverless trucks and drones, etc). Ironically, a recruiter just hit me up for two positions at the Whole Foods headquarters down the road. Dare I even consider working as part of this machine? Where does that put my contribution on the trajectory of our civilization? I don't like it. Also, at the end of the day the odds seem overwhelming and If I opt out, it just means my household will probably pay more for goods than our neighbors, putting us at a financial disadvantage in a way. Not even taking into account the time loss of driving around to various local shops.

Scott's book doesn't lay out the case for breaking up these four like that video did, but it's more about how they came to power. In the latter chapters he even talks a bit about how young workers can navigate within the new economy. Sounding almost as if learning to work within the shadow of the four is key. I guess his video on breaking them apart resonated more with me. Can it be done though? Should we even care?

It's impossible to disconnect from Facebook. Even non-members have a profile there.

I just recently joined because my friend's daughter had cancer and the only place he was posting updates was on Facebook. I had an account under the name Sagrilarus years ago but I lost the password, and I hadn't filled anything out so I'm discounting that one. But here's the thing -- I register under my main email address, and Facebook asks to see all of the contacts in my email in order to create an instant network of friends, family and business relationships. A little too chummy I think, and I opt No. The request was a bit cryptic. It asked "Can we search for people you know?" which seemed reasonable, then they said "give us your gmail password to do this." That's when I said no. But -- upon completion of setting up my account Facebook says, "you have 26 friend requests" and there's a list of people I know, some close friends, others screwball connections from years back. Apparently they had all offered up their email accounts for Facebook to review. So before I even set up an account, Facebook had me as a node in their graph with 26 lines attached to it. In short, they had all the information they needed to paint a solid profile of me before I was even a member. That's likely the case for every American with an email address, even if they haven't signed on to the site even once.

By the way, completely off-topic, I've had a good time watching Pinterest try to figure out who I am. Their first recommended Pins to me was a bunch of women and motorcycles. Not women on motorcycles, women standing next to motorcycles more or less half naked. I ignored it (i.e. didn't click on anything.) For a while they started showing me German airplanes from World War II and I thought maybe they had bought some data. Then they moved to international travel photos, then cooking secrets, and now they just sent me 1960s women's hair styles. So apparently Pinterest thinks I've become a woman since I signed up.

That's what happens when a company doesn't gather data on you. Hard to decide which is worse.

Apple - I have successfully avoided the Cult of Apple for many years, but my current job required me to have a smart phone, and their IT folks insist that everybody use the same kind, which means I now have an iPhone. More uncomfortably, they took over payment of my monthly phone bill, which is a nice perk except that I must request permission before adding any apps to the phone. So if I wanted to get into Mansions of Madness 2.0, I would need to get an additional phone.

Google - I have periodically tried other search engines, but Google always delivers better results. I especially enjoy using the Google Image search, either to track down images I am already seeing, or to find useful images for a specific need.

Facebook - Like Pete, I have too many friends and family scattered all over the place, and Facebook is easily the most practical way to keep in touch with all of them.

Amazon - Shopping is easiest now with Amazon, and I do have Prime for the shipping and the shows. But sometimes I remind myself of the Shopping tab on Google, which often yields some interesting alternatives. For example, Amazon is currently selling a boxed dvd set of the first seven seasons of Game of Thrones, for $92.97. But thanks to a Google Shopping search, I see there is a place in China selling the same product (and same dvd region) for $11.88 plus shipping.

I know I should be concerned about a few huge companies grabbing up too much market share, but they are getting big, in part, because they conduct business in an efficient manner that saves me time and/or money.

Nodens wrote: Considering Neuromancer, Neal Stephenson's Diamond Age took that concept to show that the few who scored a job with the Global Corporations were set up for life, had to give up any hope for control of their destiny and had to be protected from the masses of the impoverished rest of the population.

So what you're saying is...I should take a Whole Foods (Amazon) job? :/

Shellhead wrote: Amazon - Shopping is easiest now with Amazon, and I do have Prime for the shipping and the shows. But sometimes I remind myself of the Shopping tab on Google, which often yields some interesting alternatives. For example, Amazon is currently selling a boxed dvd set of the first seven seasons of Game of Thrones, for $92.97. But thanks to a Google Shopping search, I see there is a place in China selling the same product (and same dvd region) for $11.88 plus shipping.

So you'll knowingly buy a counterfeit? Because that's what that is.