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Mage Knight Review: A comparison with Magic Realm Hot

Mage Knight Review: A comparison with Magic Realm

First, I think that Mage Knight is not near the game that Magic Realm is (more on that below), but if you don’t have access to Magic Realm; nor the time or inclination to learn it, then Mage Knight is the next best thing.Before the review is dismissed outright, I will say that Mage Knight is the game of the year for me and does create a very thematic adventure game.  In ways of analogy, Mage Knight would be like drinking a nice Guinness on draught; whereas, Magic Realm is like drinking a Guinness in the brewery.

Almost everything about Mage Knight is good.  The components are all acceptable and the implementation of the adventure system is fine.  The game is based on 3 days/nights, and I assure you, a lot happens.  It is clear that your hero is a cut above the rest being able to accomplish so much in an evening.  There is good variety in terms of terrain and locations that can be encountered; I expect that the replayability will hold-out and it does provide a very nice solo experience.  Furthermore, the deckbuilding is seamlessly integrated with the game play – in fact, it reminds me very much of Middle Earth Quest.  The entire system is also intertwined with different colors of mana, which will gives old D&D players (or magic the gathering, even) a feeling of the classic “schools” of magic.  On your travels, you can gain units to buff your hero and protect them in your quests, where the implementation  reminds me greatly of Runebound.

Additionally, the “streamilining” of the system is quite impressive.  There is a degree of rules complexity; however, it nowhere approaches that of Magic Realm. Much of the talk in the forums have lauded it in terms of “theme without flavor text”; however, that really isn’t a distinction that I find meaningful.   Arkham Horror could be stripped of all flavor text and just be various skill checks against named monsters or events and get the same results as Mage Knight.  So, while it is cool, it is by no means unique.  It has also been “vladaaed”, meaning that the entire process is a fairly open information optimization process that has a HUGE decision tree – this game should never be played with those prone to analyze all possibilities and likely might be a disaster if played with a full contingent of four.

Now, to where Magic Realm runs Mage Knight through in an unbalanced match:

Replayability: MR has much more replayability than MK.  Much of MR may not even appear in multiple games.

Character Differentiation: The character differentiation in MK is only cosmetic at best.  For the most part, all four of the characters can be successful using the same strategy and their deck differentiation is subtle in terms of gameplay impact (and, in fact,  I am still trying to figure out the degree they really are different).  On the other hand, no two characters in MR really play the same.  Each require vastly different strategies and there are 16 of them – a truly impressive design feat.

Magic: I found the magic implementation in MK to be quite satisfactory; however, it really doesn’t have the depth and variability of MR – where magic users can enchant the actual terrain to provide access to various types of magic.  There are other cool things in MR that allow tweaking to spell timing

Monsters: The monster spawning in MR is nothing short of genius.  MK really is just standard fare.  Additionally, combat in MK is very abstracted – which is fine; nonetheless, this abstraction is what results in some of the lack of variability in characters in the game.

World Creation: The depth of the world created in MR is much more unique and rich than that of MK.  For the most part, MK is quite generic – in fact, it may be the most generic game by Chvatli that I might have played.  MR creates a richness that is mindboggling in terms of game design.  NPC units in MK basically are used to join the player’s retinue.  In MR, NPCs can buy stuff, sell stuff, trade stuff,  join characters, interact with each other in absence of characters (in fact, it is possible to start wars between NPCs in MR), etc.  That being said, the units in Mage Knight really do provide some combat variability for the heroes - which somewhat makes up for the abstraction of the combat.  Indeed, it makes almost every combat like a mini-puzzle (also a reason not to play this with slow-pokes).

Character Leveling: MK provides a very nice leveling mechanic.  At first glance, MR doesn’t have a leveling component; however, in the advanced rules it discusses each character having four levels.  So, in the standard 28 day game, you can proceed from Level 1 to Level 4, becoming noticeably stronger as you gain access to more chits.

Conclusion:

If you can play only one of the two games, make it Magic Realm.  If you can’t get access to Magic Realm, then Mage Knight is a very nice game.  If you like adventure games, then play both.  Mage Knight serves as a quicker, lighter version of Magic Realm -- their similarities are much greater than their differences.  And, with any quicker, lighter version it sacrifices some of the breadth and open-endedness seen in Magic Realm.

Oh yeah, you die a lot more in Magic Realm.

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Comments (15)
  • avatarSpace Ghost

    Sorry about the change of font size - couldn't figure out how to edit this.

  • avatarJonJacob

    Nice write up, good timing!

    The characters are pretty much the same sans one action card in the beginning but after leveling up they can be quite different. Attaching skills, spells, artifacts and advanced actions really change who you are, and being able to steal discarded skills means that the difference from game to game could be huge depending who your playing with and what they choose to discard.

    The game is very abstract and prone to AP but from the sounds of it I wouldn't have the time for MR so this is my best bet. As awesome as MR sounds I'd need to be at least 5 years younger to get into it.

  • avatarSaMoKo

    I think the biggest departure from the unique flavor of Vlaada games here wasn't in the game itself, but in the lack of a manual that makes me genuinely laugh my ass off. I was almost excited to read the manual and felt let down afterwards. It almost seems like either Wiz Kids or the pre-existing license reigned in part of his character somewhere along the line, which would be a damn shame if it were the case.

  • avatarJonJacob

    The last three were funny but it would have been tougher to pull off in this game. It's got a different feel to the world then those last three did.

    Although Mage Knight does have this:

    Quote:
    The orientation of tiles is normally fixed, the player revealing them having no choice in how to orient them. That's right, Heroes are just discovering an unknown kingdom, not, say, building a medieval city in the south of France.
  • avatarSpace Ghost

    JonJacob - I agree about the leveling up introducing a mechanism for variation. The bigger sense in how MK differs from MR is the lack of a need to have a completely different strategy for each character from the beginning.

    The replayability is very high. However, the "depth to mastery" that exists in MR just isn't there. Part is due to the difference between 4 characters and 16 characters; part is due to MK just not being as nuanced and versatile as the MR system.

    Like I said, none of this takes away from my enjoyment of the game -- which is very high. However, from a more critical standpoint, what MK tries to do has mostly already been done and for the most part, been done better. Even more amazing that was 32 years ago.

  • avatarEgg Shen

    Thanks for the write up Space Ghost.

    I have to admit, Mage Knight wasn't even on my radar after I read about it being so...different than what I expected. I suppose my first inkling was that it was going to be another game in the mold of Talisman/Runebound/Prophecy etc...When I found out it wasn't I got disappointed and sort of lost interest.

    Now that I've actually looked into it I can't figure out why I would even want it to be similar to those games I listed. The market is already flooded with similar fantasy boardgames and the fact that Mage Knight is different is a great thing.

    I really shouldn't be surprised as Vlaada is probably one of the hottest/prolific designers at the moment. I've loved almost all of his previous games and I particularly thought Dungeon Lords was absolutely brilliant (its one of the few Euro style games I'll play). The man is constantly coming up with things outside of the box and Mage Knight (while similar to Magic Realm) seems to be another example of this. Whenever I get some money after Christmas I'm 100% going to buy this one. It sounds like one of the best fantasy games to come out in a long, long time.

  • avatarNeonPeon

    "The character differentiation in MK is only cosmetic at best."
    I really dislike this quality of many adventure games. I can usually get past it but I love how in Magic Realm I actually feel like I'm playing unique characters. In Talisman, the distinction between the Troll and the Halfling is completely blurred by about turn 12.

  • avatardragonstout

    Thanks for the review! Now if only there were someone in San Diego to teach me Magic Realm...

  • avatarSuperflyTNT

    Damn, Andy...I'd have taught you. I was just there last week, at the Westin Waterfront for 3 days.

    Be back late in Feb as well.

  • avatarengelstein

    Hoping to get this to the table at our Game Day party Monday, and read the rules last night.

    I picked it up strictly because I love Chvatil's stuff, and really didn't know much about it.

    As I read the rules last night I was just thinking - he's trying to do a simpler Magic Realm. It just leaps off the design ideas. Now I'm looking forward to trying it out even more.

    I am a little concerned about the calculability of everything. It seems like you could AP it to an extreme. There was even a part of the rules where they condone allowing players to 'roll back' their move and do it over as long as they haven't done something that revealed hidden info.

    Geoff

  • avatarJonJacob

    While it certainly seems to be true that MR is more complex and detailed I have to wonder. Are you playing it the way it came in the box all those years ago or are you playing a more recent modified version? With a different rule book and time to let the community change it a bit. Because if that's the case it might be more fair to compare these after MK has had a similar amount of time to grow with a community as well.

    I have a feeling this is just the beginning for MK and we can expect the system to get much more complex and detailed as time goes on.

    Big surprise for me, MK is reasonably generic but I like the setting quite a bit anyway. It's pretty cool how dark the world is and how your not really a hero trying to save it. You just want to conquer it, which is a bit unusual.

    Also, does MR have scenario's as varied as MK? Just curious as I'd love to try it but it sounds like a pain in the ass.

  • avatardragonstout  - re:
    SuperflyTNT wrote:
    Damn, Andy...I'd have taught you. I was just there last week, at the Westin Waterfront for 3 days.

    Be back late in Feb as well.

    Cool! Bring your Magic Realm and we'll meet up and I'll also show you the best food in town.

  • avatardragonstout  - re:
    JonJacob wrote:
    While it certainly seems to be true that MR is more complex and detailed I have to wonder. Are you playing it the way it came in the box all those years ago or are you playing a more recent modified version? With a different rule book and time to let the community change it a bit. Because if that's the case it might be more fair to compare these after MK has had a similar amount of time to grow with a community as well.

    I have a feeling this is just the beginning for MK and we can expect the system to get much more complex and detailed as time goes on.

    Big surprise for me, MK is reasonably generic but I like the setting quite a bit anyway. It's pretty cool how dark the world is and how your not really a hero trying to save it. You just want to conquer it, which is a bit unusual.

    Also, does MR have scenario's as varied as MK? Just curious as I'd love to try it but it sounds like a pain in the ass.

    Far as I know:
    1) Magic Realm hasn't been modified. The rulebook has been modified, but only to make it clearer, not to actually change things.

    2) Magic Realm is not scenario-based, but as Space Ghost alludes to, there is plenty of variability from within the game system (a little bit of what was talked about in the "depth" discussion following Pulsipher's blog post, how scenarios don't actually add depth).

    But I have tried and failed to learn Magic Realm (by myself, though, with RealmSpeak).

  • avatarSpace Ghost

    1. Magic Realm has never been modified. There is some talk of Hamblen having some official variatns, but the only thing I have ever seen is some stuff (maybe 2 articles) published in old issues of The General. Otherwise, it is the exact same as it was in 1979.

    2. It isn't scenario based -- but you set your goals ala Careers. Then, depending on which of the 16 characters you are you go about either fighting monsters, killing NPCs, stealing treasure, whatever. It is almost if character choice is a way of defining the scenario, with specific character combinations redefining it if you play with more than one paerson as characters are designed to interact differently with each other as well.

    It truly is the most intricate, nuanced, and balanced fantasy game there is. There really isn't anything antiquated about it rather than the old school AH style rulebook -- but the 2nd edition rules basically made it like MK layout, a walkthrough that goes through the four stages of the game.

  • avatarBearn

    I enjoyd MK good enough but through following the game i got introduced to MR, which i admit i had never heard of. I honestly played two games of MR and just loved it so much i put MK on the shelf. :(

    It also appears with all of this exposure MR is getting from the comparisons that there may finally be a new reprint coming soon. I for one would love to see that come true.

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