Conventions. The smells of body odor, fried food, the sounds of box farts, cards shuffling, and heated discussions about who was hotter, Princess Leia or Amidala. People complaining that 7XL was the largest t-shirt available (yes I witnessed that) and all the geek ego stroking you can imagine. You wanna hear about my character? My deck? My greatest 18XX triumph? Fat women in tight leather asking if M'lord would like to demo their new CCG, stormtroopers waiting in line behind Klingons to take a piss. More Mountain Dew Code Red sold in one day than is sold the other 364 days of the year. For some, this would be a scary sight or something to make a documentary about. For me, it was a chance to play a whole lot of games in one day and hopefully see a bunch of new stuff.
The first new (to me anyway) game that I got to play was Steam, Rags to Riches. We waited about an hour to play this, as a family with little kids was demoing it when we walked up to the Mayfair booth. This was OK as it gave me time to walk around the dealer hall and check out some of the deals, dice booths, and crazy people that were hanging out in there. Why the heck was a family with little kids playing a complex economic train game, might you ask? Well, this is a lesson that I hope Mayfair learns from in the future. They were running a promotion where if you demoed enough games they would give you a free game. Each game you demoed got you a catan resource, like wood, sheep, ore, etc. Different combinations got you different free games. Well, someone had the bright idea that playing Steam should be the only way to get ore. So, if the free game you wanted required ore, you had to demo steam. This led to a bunch of people with no interest in the game sitting through the demo while obese middle aged martin wallace fanboys lurked around the table like vultures. We stopped by and talked to the guy running the game (whose name I forget, but he was a great guy) and then left. When we came back in half an hour to see where the happy family was in their demo, there were half a dozen lurkers hanging about. When the family got up, I we had to do the "we were here first" "no you weren't" "yeah we were it was before you showed up" routine. Luckily the demo guy was paying attention and backed me up. Hopefully Mayfair learns from this and makes sure there is an alternate way to get ore next year!
Anyway, on to my review of the game. Railroad Tycoon never really excited me, but some of Wallace's more recent train games were pretty fun, like Steel Driver and Railways of England and Wales. Plus I have always been curious about Age of Steam so I wanted to Steam a go.
Steam is very good. After designing roughly 582 train games in the last ten years or so, Wallace has brought a lot of the good stuff together in one game and culled out a lot of the crap. Steam doesn't have the stupid cards from RRT, and the board is far more balanced, which eliminates the need to play sheriff on the leader that you have in RRT. Steam also doesn't have the make-a-mistake-on-the-first-turn-and-lose cash system that exists in Age of Steam, although you can play Steam's advanced rules for a slightly more cutthroat exercise. The components in Steam are weak, using wooden discs where train-meeples would have been better and tiny cardboard money chits where something bigger or more easily stackable would have been nice. The design is really tight and fun. Each player represents a railroad, building links between cities and shipping goods between the cities to earn points which can be spent on either income or VPs. Of course, you have to borrow money (reducing your income) to pay for track early in the game, so a lot of your thinking goes into how to create a viable network of lines you can use to ship cubes as far as possible, to get your income up to a sustainable rate, then you shift to scoring VPs while trying to maintain the viability of your network. There are some variable player power roles that are selected, with different abilities like choose role first next turn, increase engine, re-seed city with goods, urbanize town to city, first to lay track, first to ship cubes, and build an extra track. You no longer auction any of this stuff, the turn order is handled entirely with the role selection. Despite my general dislike for role selection when it dominates a game, like in Puerto Rico and its many knockoffs, it really fades into the background in Steam and just functions to make the turn order work correctly instead of dominating the action.
Steam isn't all that different from Martin Wallace's other fifty train designs. Why do I like it when I am lukewarm on several of the others? I think with this one he hit a sweetspot on complexity. The difficulty of the game reminds me of Power Grid. There are a good bit of rules with a lot going on, but the game is inherently intuitive. On the second turn you realize what you are supposed to do and how you are supposed to do it, just like Power Grid. I think this factor, combined with the previous success of RRT and AoS, means that Steam is going to be a big hit for Wallace. My only complaints about steam are the components, which are nice but are in the abstract euro-style of discs and cubes where train meeples or plastic would have been great and the lack of a stock system optional rule. After playing Steel Driver and Rails of England, two Martin Wallace designs with brilliant stock rules resembling 18XX light, I was hoping to see optional stock rules in Steam. I guess not.
After we finished playing Steam, I mentioned to my friend Kris that I thoroughly enjoyed the game, but wished it had train meeples (anything but those boring discs) and a stock system, to which he replied, "have you played Chicago Express?" One of the nice things about Origins is that the Columbus Area Boardgame Society has a fantastic library of games. We went upstairs, checked out Chicago Express, and got going.
It was around this time that Steve Avery and Chris Moore (The King in Yellow) stopped by and said hi to me. I meant to catch up with them later and try to play a game but it didn't work out. Still very cool to meet these guys in person! Hopefully next year I can stay longer and actually play a game or two with them.
Anyway, I liked Chicago Express but it doesn't rank up there with Steam or many other train games. CEx uses a stock system, similar to 18XX or imperial, and the companies increase their profit through laying tracks. Unlike Steam which uses shipping goods to generate income, in CEx, each space on the board is simply worth a boost to your income or not. You can also build houses along your route for extra income.
Compared to the rich decision making involved with planning to ship goods in Steam, where you have to worry about what you are shipping, where you are shipping it to, and who might steal it from you, CEx's system is easy to the point of being boring. Pick a good route to a income-rich final destination like chicago, detroit, or pittsburgh and you are set. The game is ultimately pretty frustrating because of a balance issue. The good railroads get more shares sold in them, either by folks hoping to pick up a valuable share or people hoping to devalue the leader's shares. This results in an odd situation where a viable strategy is owning one share in two or three poorly ran railroads rather than three shares in the best railroad. That little quirk combined with the bland gameplay on the main board left me feeling pretty lukewarm on this one. In it's favor, Chicago Express plays in about 45 minutes, which is really fast for a stock based railroad game. If you are a train gamer and you are looking for a game that fits in a smaller timeframe, it might be worth looking at. Generally, I can't recommend it very strongly, but it does have wooden train meeples which beat the pants off wooden discs.
I also got to play four turns of Z-man's tales of the arabian nights. I don't want to pass judgment on a game after only playing four turns as opposed to a whole game, but this one is going to be a "love it or hate it" game for nearly everyone that plays it. Here is a summary of the gameplay: Move your player piece, execute a story encounter using the books and charts. This is done by cross referencing some die rolls with a choice you make. For example, you roll a die and another player will say "you encounter a hungry hag. What do you do?" Your choices might include feed, beat, coerce, seduce, rob, bribe, etc. It is different depending on the encounter. Based on what you do and what skills your character possesses, the other player then cross references a table and reads a paragraph from the book. It is basically a huge (and I do mean huge, over 3000 paragraphs of text) choose your own adventure story with a skill and victory point system tacked on. If you think that sounds like fun, then you will love this. I didn't feel very "in control" of my own destiny, as it all feels pretty random. As I said above, this is a game you will either love or hate. You certainly aren't going to play it competitively, because although it is a great experience, it is thoroughly random. I liked it as an experience but I am unsure how I feel about it as a game.
Finally, I played a lot of random prototypes. The majority of these I was sworn to complete secrecy on. One was designed by a gentleman whose face would appear on the Ameritrash designer Mount Rushmore, a true elder statesman amongst A-T designers, but due to its original theme and a couple very innovative mechanics I was sworn to total secrecy. I just want to say that when it comes out, if they get rid of a couple little horrific issues, it will become an instant ameritrash classic. I feel like a dick talking about it without being able to ACTUALLY say anything, but this is a report on prototypes and demos, so you will have to get over it. Plus I dropped some clues.
The only prototype I played where the designer was happy to allow me to review it was Christian Leonhard and Jason Matthews' Campaign Manager 2008. This game is set to be released by Z-Man in late 2009. It is a card game based on the 2008 preseidential elections. It uses a system of political support, issues, and demographics with a cool CCG-esque card drafting mechanism to do a light simulation of the 2008 presidential campaign that plays very fast. I was blown away and truly impressed by this game. Easily the highlight of the convention for me. I am pretty indifferent on 1960. I think it isn't complex enough to really be that interesting, all the battles are centered around a few key states, and there are certain strategies that win every time. When I heard they were doing a lighter card game version of 1960 based on the 2008 election I was not all that excited. Sounded pretty blah to me. I was very wrong. CM08 solves the problems that 1960 had and presented a much more streamlined game which plays very fast.
Here is a rundown of the gameplay. Each state is represented by a card which contains two political support tracks (one for each issue, economy and foreign policy), a issue track (which determines which issue matters), and a demographic track (Reagan democrats, college voters, hispanics, etc.). Each side gets a deck of cards which manipulates these different tracks. Anyone who fills up the support track for the winning issue with their tokens wins the state. Each state starts with certain levels of support for the two candidates based on how they are leaning. The demographics come in through card text, which might say "all undecided women voters become obama supporters" or something like that. The other cards manipulate the key issue, or add support in an area, or do other things. Additionally, there is an event deck. One event happens each time a state is won. Other cards available to the players have other interesting effects. Some require a roll on the dirty politics table (the only table involved in the game) others are media support cards which have certain effects and remain in play. Each state, depending on it's size, grants a certain number of electoral votes and the two sides race to the required number to win.
My favorite thing about the game is that it actually captures what Dominion failed to do: You truly build your own deck at the beginning of the game. The game comes with 45 cards for each side, but the game is only played with 15 cards to a side. At the beginning, you draw three and choose one to keep and repeat until your deck is built. This allows a LOT of leeway in pursuing different strategies. For example, when the game was explained to us by Christian, I heard him say that Obama has a slight advantage in most states on the economy issue. Thinking back to my CCG days, I decided to try to build a control style deck, and I concentrated on cards that kept all of the states concentrated on the economy instead of foreign policy. I hoped to negate McCain's advantage in foreign policy states and make the cards in my opponent's deck which added foreign policy support worthless to him. My opponent played a more balanced deck, as he tried to incorporate as many "and draw a card" effects as possible to create a hand advantage. My Obama control deck concept ultimately failed because I didn't incorporate enough support granting cards and slowly McCain was able to establish himself on the economy issue. He also won a couple of big states out of the gate before I could establish my economy issue lockdown.
Why does this little deckbuilding thing excite me so much? Because for a really simple quick game, there is a lot of replayability. You can build a deck around getting undecided voters through the demographic mechanics, you can build an issue control deck, you can build a support based deck, or a deck around dirty politics cards. Heck, when my issue control deck began stalling out, and I realized I was having trouble laying down enough support to win, I switched gears and started abusing one of the only non-issue manipulating cards I had included in my deck: Keith Olberman Obama Bromance! AKA Left wing media. That card allowed me to choose the effect of the event from the event deck instead of it effecting the new state that came out. I started choosing small, easy to control states so that no matter who won their votes, I would get to choose the effect of the event we drew through my left wing media. Don't worry, there is a right wing media card to balance this effect. Most of the cards you might interpret as "taking a shot" at a candidate had a counterpart on the other side. The entire card set was very tastefully done from a standpoint of political balance.
I felt 1960 was overwrought for a game that truly wasn't very deep. Great for the first couple of plays, then you were asking yourself why it took an hour to decide who got New York. However, when you take a similar (but stripped down) system and turn it into a 20-30 minute card game, and you tack on a nifty little deckbuilding mechanism that adds a ton of replayability into the system, I think they have a winner. Plus Z-Man will undoubtedly produce it with nice bits, and if it is cheap, I can see this being one of the best reviewed short 2 player games ever. I am that impressed with it. Not that there are a lot of short 2 player gamer's games out there anyway to be honest. Look for this game in fall of 2009.
I didn't get a chance to play Jason and Christian's founding fathers game, which they also had on hand. Origins, even with my one day speed gaming experience, was a lot of fun. So who is going to be at Gencon?

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... That first picture is so brutal. Notice the even fatter guy in the background, gazing in envy at the Virgin guy, who is at least touching a woman, even if she might be his sister. Otherwise, great report on the con, though I'm only interested in that Game Z. I'm starting to think that Arabian Nights won't be my kind of game. |
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... You wanna hear about my character? My deck? Don't you EVER fucking talk to me about your character or your deck. Those are two things that no person who has EVER worked in game retail EVER wants to hear about. Aside from that, a good report. I'm not sure I ever really care about playing another Martin Wallace train game since RRT and its upcoming RAILS OF THE WORLD expansion pretty much fills my train game dance card and meets all my "wants" from the genre. But I'm sure I'll play STEAM eventually, probably at Swamp Castle. On TotAN- don't worry about it being a game or not. Just tell stories and laugh. Do you really think you have complete control over your destiny in real life? You could be turned into an ape at any moment. Deal with it. CAMPAIGN MANAGER sounds _great_. I had doubts when it was announced, but it sounds like a really interesting game with a compelling theme and a lot of gameplay considering the footprint. When you met Steve Avery, did you smell pizza? For some reason I always smell pizza when that guys is around. Like, sausage and anchovies pizza. |
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... Dude, it is a game convention, the whole fucking place smells like fried food, pizza, and mountain dew. Maybe Avery has permanent convention funk? I didn't notice any of that. Thing about Campaign Manager is, if it was a $60 90 minute game, I would be disappointed, but as a 20-30 dollar card game that plays in 15-30 minutes, it is pretty sweet. Shellhead: That picture was meant to get you in the game convention feel, in case my opening paragraph didn't give you the right vibe! |
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... Tom, the picture worked great. I've been to GenCon ten times over the years, and that was definitely like a GenCon flashback. This weekend, I will be going to a local convention (despite my historic scorn for any convention smaller than GenCon), because there will be many friends, a surprising number of attractive women, and most importantly, free booze. The opportunity to play Arkham Horror all afternoon is just the icing on the cake. |
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... Railroad Tycoon never really excited me, but some of Wallace's more recent train games were pretty fun, like Steel Driver and Railways of England and Wales. You can't write a review for Steam (thanks for that!) and mention Railways of England and Wales but not review it also. How did it play? There hasn't been much information at all about it that I've seen. |
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... Dude, I already just put FOUR reviews in one article, including one of the most anticipated AT games of the year in arabian nights PLUS a pretty detailed review of a game that won't be out for months and you beg for more? I have to save some material for other articles... you dudes are insatiable! |
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... Tom, thanks for the shout-out. It was a pleasure to meet you and put a face to your name. Perhaps next year we can make it happen. People, game conventions arent that bad. Unfortunately, we (all of us) move in a crowd that attracts a lot of socially inept individuals, but most of us are pretty normal. Tom is a pretty unweird, attractive guy, and Steve is the most extroverted, gregarious, good-natured nerd I have ever encountered. Im not saying that these people arent worth mocking, and I shudder to be associated with them when I describe Origins to my normal friends, but dont let it keep you from coming to a convention and having a great time. Im pretty sure all three of us did. |
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... Mr Barnes is spot on about TotAN. It is just a fun ride. I normally end up lovelorn and even changed sex once. It is a laugh; a true experience game. Great write up on Campaign Manager. Considering I really didn't like political subjects before TS and 1960 came along, I keep getting drawn back in. |
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... Given your experience with Wallace's other train games, I'm curious to know how much you were able to step out of your skin when you wrote up your article. That is, if someone is coming to Steam without ever having played Age of Steam or Railroad Tycoon will they be in that "on your second turn you realize what you're supposed to do" position. Campaign Manager 2008 has the beauty of being a game with built-in sequels, and could make for a really cool family of titles. Again, the noob question -- if I bring this to my politically active friends that aren't gamers, is the accessibility sufficiently large for them to enjoy the game more from a political perspective than from a competition perspective? Founding Fathers very much interests me as well. If anyone is able to speak about it I would very much appreciate an article or blog entry. Sag. |
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... Campaign Manager 2008 has the beauty of being a game with built-in sequels, and could make for a really cool family of titles. Again, the noob question -- if I bring this to my politically active friends that aren't gamers, is the accessibility sufficiently large for them to enjoy the game more from a political perspective than from a competition perspective? My first comment to the designer after playing the prototype was "this is like 1960, only streamlined enough that I can play it with political junkies who are not gamers." The accessibility is definitely there. How much will they enjoy it from a non-gamer, purely political perspective? I don't think the game play offers much to them. The cards are still CCG-esque cards, and the play of it is very gamey. On the other hand many of the quality strategies and card interactions make perfect sense in light of their themes. For example, you want to have media bias out when the Gaffe card hits to minimize the damage or really hurt your opponent. If Obama abandons the economy as an issue, he will probably lose, etc. So while I don't think you are going to see people playing the game in the halls of congress anytime soon, if your political buddies are the least bit gaming-oriented you have a hit on your hands. |
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... Over the last few years I constantly read people decrying conventions filled with obese social lepers and I have a bit of a snigger and move on, just considering it a bit of story telling to keep the joke running ... but now you guys are telling me that the photo shows people taht are common enough at US conventions !?!?!?!!! I've never been to a con over in the ol' UK myself - from the stories from members of my euro group I've decided I probably wouldn't like too many of the people there - but I just can't imagine the same type/size of people at UK ones ... I know that the UK is definitely following the US in obesity stakes but I seldom see people that big around town. I will never doubt anything I'm told by you guys again. |
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... Actually, Americans in general are getting fat: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31681795/ns/health-fitness/ "As 23 states get even fatter, heavy costs loom Not a single state shows signs of slimming; Miss. remains No. 1 for obesity" Here in the U.S., obesity is defined as 20% overweight. So there are even more Americans who are overweight, but not obese. |
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... The thing is, fat people are extremely common not only in the US, but at conventions or other nerd events they are huge percentage of the attendance. I'm not talking about folks who could stand to lose a few pounds or who may not be in the best shape, I'm talking about morbidly obese, grotesquely dysmorphic freaks (and I say that without apology since being fat is a decision for most people). Sedentary lifestyles, coupled with sedentary pasttimes, coupled with a lack of initiative to do anything to better physical health is the culprit along with irresponsible leisure eating and the fact that most Americans (and nerds in particular) don't give a flying shit what they eat. Most nerds care more about corporate culture garbage like which video game console is the the best than they do about consuming disgusting amounts of sugar, fat, and industrial-manufactured food. It doesn't help when folks like the guy in that picture go to conventions and their obesity is validated- and even celebrated- by their peer group. One thing you see at a lot of conventions is morbidly obese people _who cannot walk_. They have canes, scooters, wheelchairs, and so on. I'm sure some folks may have medical problems that have caused their obesity and that's not their fault, but I've seen PLENTY of fat people tooling around at Dragon Con on motorized scooters that got that way because of their lifestyle. |
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... Barnes, I think that at least some of those obese fans might have gravitated towards hobbies featuring escapist fantasies because of their weight problems. I know one local gamer who is only in his late 20s but has already had his pancreas removed. And he isn't even close to the most overweight of all the gamers I know around here. |
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... I absolutely believe you're right. And I think that my theory that games provide a social intermediary for people who can not for whatever reason form normal social bonds ties into that. Nobody fantasizes about being a fat guy. Do they? I realize that what I said above may come across as mean-spirited. Like I said, I know, respect, and love plenty of overweight people. My fat people prejudice is mostly directed at the grotesquely obese, for whom I have absolutely no apology for. If people have a real medical issue, then normal and reasonable human compassion applies. But if you're 300 pounds because you just can't stop eating Cheetos and drinking soda while sitting around playing CAYLUS every night instead of taking a walk...I think you've got a serious problem. |
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... I think there are a slew of cultural factors pushing so many Americans into obesity, but certainly every individual is making personal choices about how to respond to those factors. Like the joke in The Onion two weeks ago, "Americans spend 90% of their time looking at glowing screens." And there is a whole culture of fear, leading parents to encourage their kids to stay inside instead of playing outside. Junk food technology continues to improve, offering an increasing range of unnatural taste and texture experiences. And many people cope with stress by eating more, and the current recession certainly brought a lot of stress to people. On a more insidious level, and this goes directly to the convention crowd, nerdiness seems to have gone very mainstream in the last ten years. The internet became huge in the '90s, every network started showing primetime science-fiction shows, and a half-generation of young women grew up thrilling to the adventures of Xena and Buffy. Meanwhile, Title IX dealt a serious blow to organized boy's sports in schools across the land, and it seemed like every other month, a major sports star was caught up in a scandal. Advances in cgi encouraged directors to do more "genre" movies, especially when they figured out that comic books were similar to storyboards. |
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... Top notch write up Tom. Nice one on GAME Zeeing us on that unmentioned prototype-- you prick. Now about the obesity thing, I always get a kick out of when when skinny people start waxing lyrical about the various ins and out of why people are fat. it always hurt me a little when people where obviously put off by my weigh-- pidgeonholed me without getting to know me. Fuck that. It downright pissed and still pisses me right the fuck off. I sincerely belive that the intolerance of obesity, is the last socially acceptable form of descrimination. Not convinced? How many times have you F:ATtties (see what I did there?), of nromal girth, had a complete stranger walk up to them and ask them if that Big Mac they're eating is really such a good idea? Well it happenened to me two years ago. I've had a coworker express his concern about my weight and how it affects my health WHILE SMOKING A FUCKING CIGARETTE . Now, I've been battling with my weight since the third grade. I've done the Weight Watchers thing. A few times. Barring an annoying feeling of permanent lightness in the pocketbook area, I've always gained the weight back. I'll be the first to admit that I'm no where near as active as when I first met my wife some 15 tears ago: pick-basket ball, street hockey, organised and non organised football, at least three hours a day 5 days a week. The lightest I've ever been is 200 pounds. And that was after dieting. I'm 5'7". That's 5'7"- no typo. I've always classified been the "quick big guy", or "pretty agile for your size" by my coaches and peers. No matter what I did, I just couldn't get "skinny". Recently I got sick of being fat. I 've been working on my feet my whole life and in the past year I've developped a bad case of plantar fascitis and/or heel spurs, and minor bursitis in both knees. My gues is that my body was telling me that the party was over. So, I went and saw a certified dietician. She essentially let me in on the fact that weight loss, or gain for that matter, is 90% to 95% related to diet. Long to short,what we consume effects our metablism which in turn effects our weight and how that weight is stored/used. It would seem that western culture, in general, promotes extremely poor eating habits:food high in carbohydrates, humonguous portion sizes, coupled with pseudo food that has the nutritional value of used motor oil make those of us that are more genetically susceptible to bearing the ill effects of an extremely unhealthy lifestyle , have a our weight spiral out of control. She must be right, because four weeks and 20 pounds later I'm probaly eating more now than five weeks ago-- I'm just not eating the same things or the same way. I'm allowed as much protein, dairy, fruits and vegetables as i want-- as long as I never allow myself to feel uncomfortably full, or full. Satisfied is what I'm shooting for. That and i can't have more than six slives of bread, or equivalent thereof, a day. I decided on a lifestyle change, and that's precisely what it is: a change in the way I now live my life, because wanted to live long enough see my daughters grow up. Conclusion, don't always jump to one. |
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... I'm very physically fit, but my girlfriend criticizes what I eat anyway. She made me watch Supersize Me to get me to stop eating fast food, so I now only go to McDonalds about once every three months. She hounds me about high-fructose corn syrup, genetically-engineered foods, and sodium. And every time she sees me with chips, I hear about it. I'm 6'1", 192#, and I've been working out at the gym 2-3 times a week for the last 18 years. Fortunately, she is a bit hypocritical about the food thing, so she made beef tacos for dinner the other night. |
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... Billy, I hear you. When I was 15, I was grossly obese and I had been for a number of years. Part of it was because my parents were fat, and they fed me fat people food. I realized that I would never have a pretty girlfriend, fit into cool clothes, or be happy if I remained a big fat kid. So I stopped eating meat, stopped eating fat people food, and lo and behold I lost literally like 60 pounds in less than a year. My parents thought I had an eating disorder and made me go to a psychiatrist. There, I was told all these BS reasons why I was controlling what I eat. They were all wrong, because in reality I just wanted to be healthier. And I was tired of that whole "intolerance of obesity" thing that you mentioned. But I also realized that I was overweight by choice. I'm 6'1" and usually around 155 pounds these days. I eat pretty much all natural, no fast food whatsoever, and very little fatty or manufactured foods. I'm vegetarian (but not vegan) and because of that alone, I have to watch everything I eat to make sure I'm not eating any animal parts. But I read every label anyway. Sometimes, you get REALLY surprised. Like when a slice of some awful frozen Sara Lee cake has 60 or more grams of fat per serving. Being aware of what you're eating is a huge step. Congratulations on the weight loss though- that's great news. That means more cheddar-stuffed bacon ranch chili dog burgers for the rest of the nerds! |
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... Via a quick calculatution, i have deduced that I could, theoretically, weigh 155 if i cut a leg and half an arm. Oh and Shelly, there,s nothing wrong with beef tacos- if your girlfriend made them from scratch. Those spice pouches are basically flavored salt and mystery condiments. 6'1" 155? seriously Barnes? How big could you have possibly been at 215? Is it a sin to say that I'm looking forward to the Agricola expansion? |
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... BBC's Horizon did a show on trying to make thin people fat by getting them to eat vast amounts of bad food. They couldn't get fat. And shortly after the test ended they lost the little bit of weight they had gained. Obesity is being considered from a lot of directions right now including viral issues and genetic predisposition. I'll add this - I'm 6'0" and 210 pounds, and I'm considered obese. The chart says I'm supposed to be 165. The goalposts have moved quite a bit in the last fifteen years. Fat people aside Tom, did the convention look to be about the same size as previous years? With the economy knocked down I'm interested to know how many to expect at WBC. I'm about to fill out my pre-registration now. Sag. |
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... I sincerely belive that the intolerance of obesity, is the last socially acceptable form of descrimination. Not even close. We discriminate against sex offenders, racists, fringe religious groups, drug users, criminals, and all sorts of other people too. The difference is that these are things people choose, unlike race, sexual orientation, or physical disability. Discrimination against things which people choose, and that degrade the quality of life for others, is completely justifiable. We can argue back and forth about just how much choice is involved with being overweight, but when something, like eating a Big Mac, has a predictable outcome, like you getting fat, and you continue to do it, the responsbility lies with you. Keep in mind, Billy, that when I say "you," I'm not referring to you specifically. Oh, and we discriminate against smokers as well. Well it happenened to me two years ago. I've had a coworker express his concern about my weight and how it affects my health WHILE SMOKING A FUCKING CIGARETTE . See? |
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... To get back on topic. Origins was phat :) Seriously, it was my best Origins to date. I think attendance was down, but there were a lot of people buying. The exhibitor hall was moved to a smaller room so we had less aisles and thus looked fuller (and we had carpeting this year). But I tell ya there was almost a constant ring of shoppers at the booth. Only on Sunday were there lulls. And not many. The CABS board room was almost always filled in the evenings with all kinds of games being played including a huge honking Arkham Horror game with many expansions. Don't discount going to a con because of some of what you here: I think if you go to any game* con and want to game, you will be very satisfied. I will be at Dexcon (local Jersey con) then WBC then Gen Con. I hope to see you there - do say hello and perhaps we can game together. (I'm the 5'11, 230 pound dude.) *game con not media con like Dragon Con or Worldcon, etc. where you might be disappointed |
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... Don't discount going to a con because of some of what you here: I think if you go to any game* con and want to game, you will be very satisfied. An important point. Game cons are also host to a lot of really awesome people. Don't be scared off by all this crazy talk. Some really awesome people may even tip the scales. Aside from that, there's really just as many social miscreants, malfeasants, and shoggoth-class tankers at the local Target as there are at a game con. I'm just trying to shame people into being healthier. *game con not media con like Dragon Con or Worldcon, etc. where you might be disappointed And this is an important distinction too...cons like Origins are all games all the time. Dragon Con, not so much. (I'm the 5'11, 230 pound dude.) But Zev, it's 130 pounds of man, and 100 pounds of raw awesome isn't it? Anyway, glad to hear it was a good show for you- it's great to hear that people were actually buying stuff too. 6'1" 155? seriously Barnes? How big could you have possibly been at 215? I topped out around 190, but it was when I was 14-15. I wasn't 6'1" then. When I dropped all the weight, I was about 120, and I was pretty ribalicious. I actually couldn't find pants that were small enough. Is it a sin to say that I'm looking forward to the Agricola expansion? I am too. If it's a sin, send me to hell. I'm curious if anybody saw any of the Bucephalus games stuff...particulary that PARDON ME, THERE'S AN AXE IN MY HEAD or whatever it was called. |
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... I think next year I will go to Origins. Columbus is not too far from my neck of the woods. I haven't been to too many cons. A couple cons run by my University. ONe run by another university. A sci fi con and a regional con. I've never been to GenCon or Origins though. I'm told I need to at some point. |
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... Being fat is not just a matter of choice, but very much a matter of economy. Yes, if you eat healthy food and exercise you won't get fat, but healthy food is a lot more expensive than junk full of fatty goodness. And if you have two full time jobs (something I've heard is not uncommon among the poor in the US) it's hard finding the time to exercise. |
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... "healthy food is a lot more expensive than junk full of fatty goodness." Actually, healthy food is cheaper if you are willing to do your own cooking but stay away from the expensive organic stuff. Eat more fruits and vegetables and you will be healthier, even if those aren't organic fruits and vegetables. The junk food is more expensive because of the extra processing. |
..."healthy food is a lot more expensive than junk full of fatty goodness." Seriously. How much for a bag of chips? $2-3? How much is an apple? ¢50 or so? Less even? There's very little junk in vending machines that sells for under a buck. Oh, and we discriminate against smokers as well. Smokers are an entirely different problem. Someone eats something, it doesn't bother me. Someone smokes in my vicinity, I'm going to smell it and feel disgusted. And the stench...it lingers forever in any place where smokers have lived or stayed, even in converted hotels/trains/etc. I notice it as soon as I come in. And how many butts do you see lying on the ground all over the place? How many times have I seen piles of ashes and butts on the street because some jackass couldn't bother to empty his car ashtray in a proper place? Soon, there won't be anymore public places where smoking is allowed, and it won't be soon enough as far as I'm concerned. |
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... Smokers are an entirely different problem. Someone eats something, it doesn't bother me. Someone smokes in my vicinity, I'm going to smell it and feel disgusted. And the stench...it lingers forever in any place where smokers have lived or stayed, even in converted hotels/trains/etc. I notice it as soon as I come in. And how many butts do you see lying on the ground all over the place? How many times have I seen piles of ashes and butts on the street because some jackass couldn't bother to empty his car ashtray in a proper place? Soon, there won't be anymore public places where smoking is allowed, and it won't be soon enough as far as I'm concerned. Then I guess discrimination isn't always a bad idea, is it? |
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... Hey Mj Are telling me if someone is fat, and that they're eating a Big Mac, then that gives every one else a free pass to ignore what is defined as socially acceptable behaviour, by going up to any perfect starnger that fits the aforementioned criteria, and invading their private space? That time? That someone that did to me? I told him to fuck off or he'd wake up to the soothing sound of an IV drip. I actually had one of the other patrons applaud me. And to be clear, I have absolotuely no problem with smokers, so long as they respect other peoples health by taking it outside, or smoking in their homes and vehicles. What people do to themselves that doesn't hurt anyone else is their business. My point was that it is still more atrractive, and accepted -socially- to smoke than to be fat. I'll bet you dollars to donuts that the good looking dude with nicotine stained fingers is hitting it a hundred more times than our friend the Elvis Impersonator That is Still a Virgin. |
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... Billy, I don't think the problem is the respectful smokers, it is the ones who smoke a cigarette, then come into a small enclosed space with you and act like since they extinguished the cigarette outside the reek didn't follow them in. Smoking cigarettes is the equivalent of walking around with a dog turd stuck to your shoe because you constantly reek, but none of the smokers know because they can't smell it. Would you get in an elevator and fart? No. So don't smoke then climb in the elevator! |
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... I don't believe that enforcing bylaws in order to protect people from an unwilling exposure to others' destructive behaviour is a form a discrimination. It doesn't really matter if you believe it is or not, Until you start enforcing said bylaws against every category of people whose self-destructive behavoir has an impact on others, that's what it is. That doesn't necessarily make it right or wrong. Are telling me if someone is fat, and that they're eating a Big Mac, then that gives every one else a free pass to ignore what is defined as socially acceptable behaviour, by going up to any perfect starnger that fits the aforementioned criteria, and invading their private space? Saying "Hey, is eating that Big Mac really such a good idea?" is invading your private space? It's rude, no argument there, but you don't really have an inherent right not to have people say rude things to you. That time? That someone that did to me? I told him to fuck off or he'd wake up to the soothing sound of an IV drip. I actually had one of the other patrons applaud me. So, what's your point, that being rude to fat people is wrong, but threatening rude people with violence is OK? Anyway, the fact that you're the only one who actually got applause in this exchange undermines your original point about intolerance of obesity being socially acceptable. And to be clear, I have absolotuely no problem with smokers, so long as they respect other peoples health by taking it outside, or smoking in their homes and vehicles. What people do to themselves that doesn't hurt anyone else is their business. And I don't have any problem with fat people, even though obesity does impose real social costs on the rest of us. Just don't expect me to respect someone's decision to eat hamburgers and sit on their ass. We have real bigotry and intolerance to worry about, anti-fatism is a pretty trival thing in comparison. |
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... The problem why so many Americans and more and more Europeans are (getting) fat is because nutrition has become a business like anything else: People eating more = more profit. A hamburger alone isn't that unhealthy, the fries and coke it gets served with are - especially if the latter comes by the liter. |
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... Since Tom's article was so thoroughly derailed by the fat people discussion, I see no reason to stop now. Having been to Mississippi a few times, I can certainly vouch for it being the home of the largest Americans I've ever seen. A significant part of that, however, has nothing to do wiht industrial/fast food...it's the traditional southern US diet. Classic american meals--what most people think of when they think of "comfort food" or "home cooking"--is designed for people who made a living doing heavy manual labor--whether it was heavy industrial in the north and midwest or agricultural manual labor in the south and plains states. If you're burning 6,000 calories during a 12-hour shift hauling steel or picking cotton, that 3-egg, rasher of bacon, quart of grits, all fried in lard breakfast washed down with 16 oz. of whole milk makes perfect freakin' sense. Since that sort of labor was far more common up through the mid-20th century, it's not surprising that "grandma's recipes" start with an ice cream scoop full of lard just to grease the pan... However, if your ass is parked in front of a screen all day, that breakfast will make your ass spread faster than, well, soft butter in a hot skillet. And Barnes, now the rationale for your bellicose nature has become clear to me. The absence of the Healing Power of Pork[tm] in your diet has caused serious malfunction in your brain. The lack of pork products is, in fact, directly related to serious global crises. Let's take a look, for a moment, at all the places where pork is not a diet staple: Pakistan, Afghanistan, most of India, most of Sudan, Algeria, the entire Middle East from Israel to the Gulf States...all global centers of strife, low-intensity conflict, and general unrest. Clearly, the lack of good healthy pork products is at the heart of the problems in these places. So, Barnes, add some BBQ and bacon to your diet and give peace a chance. Think of the children. ;-) |
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... I asked Christian about the expandability aspect of the game. They intend to expand it by adding new elections. So, you might get a Bush v. Gore set or a Clinton v. Dole set or whatever. My impression was that each of these would be a standalone game which would not be compatible with other sets, but I didn't dig too deep with that. The first CM manager game hasn't even been published yet so I suspect anything he would have told me would be speculation anyway. |
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