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Gary Sax
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... Sorry to hear about your job. Really curious about Android. Keep giving us more impressions if you play it more. I felt like, reading the rules and looking at what's available online, that the universe creation is actually maybe better than the game mechanics! |
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... I kind of think that too, actually. I was looking over it last night and I think there's probably enough flavor text and story material in the game to fill at least a short novel. There's a completeness in the game world that I don't think I've ever seen outside of full-blown RPGs. How many other board games have you ever seen where a character has to deal with father issues or get over a failed relationship? There are definitely some compelling mechanics though...the puzzle thing, like I said, is kind of genius. The movement thing, with the "vehicle caliper" pieces, is smart. I'm not sure I'm completely sold on the "twilight" thing, where positive and negative actions balance out based on how you play them and I think the time tracking thing is kind of a missed opportunity- I was hoping it would work more like THEBES but it's really just a fancy way of saying "action points". But still, I can't stress enough, the game looks and feels awesome so far as a whole and I think there are some very experimental and possibly revolutionary ideas going on. It was smart for them to release it as a surprise, because internet grousing would have waylaid some of the excitement this is going to get over the next couple of weeks. |
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... Sorry about your job. If you don't mind -30 Celsius temperatures I can try to find you something in the 'Peg. Question for you: when you apply for a writing job, do you submit your F:AT or Gameshark columns as a reference? Seriously. |
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... I do have Gameshark on my resume since it is a paid, professional job. Technically, I'm a freelance employee in the hire of MadCatz, Inc. on it. F:AT doesn't turn up though, since it's more of a personal pursuit. |
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... Android claims a three hour play time, and you said, "and it could run very long." Granted you've just played a few turns, but is your estimate of "very long" in the 2-3 hours range, or the 3-5 hours range? Sag. |
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... Glad to hear straight out that Android isn't the murder-mystery deduction game it first came off as. Knowing its more of a sci-fi adventure game still has me interested in it, but in a different way. Actually I think I may be a bit more interested in it now as that's a niche that seems generally neglected. Definitely keep us posted when you get around to really playing it. |
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... See, I was more intrigued by it being a murder-mystery game. But if you don't like that kind of thing, you're totally good. I just worry that the mechanic may be gamey- it doesn't make sense to me that the murderer's identity is determined by player actions. I'm thinking it's going to have a fairly rigid 3 hour run time as suggested as long as you're playing with involved, reasonable people who don't diddle around. I don't really see it going over that since it is on a very strict timer (two weeks, or 14 rounds) but there is the issue that it's an action point game, which can make games very long. Players get X amount of "time" per turn to conduct actions, and you know how that can go with AP players. |
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... Its not that I don't like murder-mystery. I'm actually a fan of deduction games in general. I just like the idea of a sci-fi adventure game. It doesn't bother me at all that the murderer is determined as the game progresses if its not a deduction game. The first Mystery Rummy game determines the killer by the cards played during the game and that's still fun. Android does seem more like it supposed to be a movie where the story isn't the crime solving but more the story of the main character(s) as they solve the crime. If it were more of a deduction/mystery game then it would revolve around the crime more I would think. |
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... Goodness knows the suspected murderer's conviction is never determined by the police's actions in real life. |
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... It is kind of like MYSTERY RUMMY in a way! I didn't even think about that, but it is like the first one (the Jack the Ripper one) in a lot of ways, you just don't have that whole accusation thing. I do think it is more about the story and the characters' interaction with it rather than the identity of the murderer. |
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... I was actually hoping it would be more murder/deduction. My wife would definitely have played that with me, sci-fi, character plots and all. |
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... For CE, I don't see any step back at all. The spiral was pretty cool, but a very minor thing at the end of the day, and the ongoing tracking of foreign bases in the FFG version seems like a nice touch to avoid some tedious recounting. The AH battle boats were ho-hum for me, kind of fussy and toy-like. I'm sure the saucers are more functional. Are they nice to handle? I'm with Gary so far on Android; my wife would've considered the deduction angle, but a Blade Runner, sci-fi noir story game is not going to fly. Not yet seeing the hook with this one, but I'll keep tabs on it. |
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... Android sounds incredible. I don't mind the idea that players are effectively trying to frame their preferred suspect. It's a valid design alternative to trying to create a game with a specific killer and then various game mechanics to keep that information secret. There are deduction games that successfully implement that kind of mystery, but they tend to have limited replay value. This sounds more like an adventure game with both a cyberpunk setting and a mystery style. |
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... Yeah, Android is a weird game, and somewhat hard to categorize for sales text. If you imagine it as a painting, the personal demons are the foreground, the conspiracy is the background, and the murder investigation is the frame tying things together. When I was first looking at mechanics for the murder, I looked at the traditional 'deductive' mechanics in games like Clue and such, but I never saw one that actually felt deductive to me. They're more like bad logic puzzles / shopping lists where you tick off possibilities until you're left with only one possible solution, and I've always disliked that type of mechanic. Mystery in the Abbey pulls it off with a reasonable amount of style, but I was looking for something that felt different. After some experimentation, I wound up going with something that's a bit more like poker or Top Secret Spies. It plays off the dual role for the player, in that you're both playing a detective and a sort of director trying to build a dramatic movie centered around your detective. You can imagine either that your detective is framing someone, or that he's finding evidence that happens to advance the story in the way the 'director' wants. I guess coming from an RPG background, it doesn't bother me any to have the players directing which way the story turns out, and I like the noir qualities of deciding whether your detective is honest or not with his evidence. It's a bit artsy, I admit, but I think that it makes for some compelling gameplay and helps to make Android something that is quite different from the games already on the market. Whether or not that will ultimately pay off in sales, well, we'll see. I certainly hope it does, because the Android universe is fairly near and dear to my heart. But, realistically, Android won't be for everyone any more than Descent or Arkham Horror were. I think there will be folks that love it, and folks that hate it, and I'm cool with that. I'd rather Android be a game that causes strong reactions than for it to be bland, inoffensive, and ultimately, forgettable. |
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... I'm curious Kevin, was the decision to do the "surprise" release connected at all to how sort of "avant garde" the game is? I can see it being a pretty tough sell to most folks, actually. For one, it's science fiction in a way that frankly I don't think any board game has really touched- a couple of months ago I was saying "why hasn't anybody done a SF game that's more Dick than STAR WARS"...and here it is. For another, it is more complex than most games out there outside of the more complex wargames and RPGs. I agree about the problems with deduction games...but you _have_ to try this old, fairly obscure 1985 game called ORIENT EXPRESS. It's the only deduction game I've ever played that I felt like was an actual deduction/mystery solving game. You might get two pieces of unrelated information but a third correlates those with another seemingly unconnected piece that you have to make a deductive leap to arrive at how. I think it's kind of brilliant, and I'd say it's the best game in its class. I really like the concept of being, in effect, a "director" for the overall story and I can definitely see that- I think the way the twilight cards can be played against other players to sort of waylay their efforts and to steer them toward sad endings does that pretty well, and in that context I can also see how working out the identity of the murderer/who's in the conspiracy is part of that as well. That's an element of RPGs that even games like ARKHAM HORROR barely touch on when you get down to brass tacks, the idea of creating a consensual, mutually guided narrative. I think that's a pretty daring design choice, to not only include the subplot elements but also to effectively de-emphasize the apparent overall goal of the game. Thinking it over, it's as much "about" solving a murder as SEVEN or DEMOLISHED MAN actually are. It's definitely a more cinematic/novelistic approach, and one that I think is really quite advanced over anything we've seen in board game narrative. It's pretty clear that the game has a lot of heart, and if nothing else when people play they're going to know that the designer really gave a damn about telling a story and creating a complete world for players to interact with. |
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... You lie, Kevin! Descent is TOTALLY for everybody. It's the game we dreamed about as lil' children. I want to play Android. Here we were a few weeks ago talking about innovation and you were having to keep a lid on something like this. I bet you were freakin' biting your lip about that one. |
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... Michael - so sorry to hear about your job. You are #2 on the day of people I know getting laid off. Scary stuff. Thanks for the summary of the games. I am still very intrigued by Android. |
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... Well, being a 1099 contractor makes you as expendable as a rubber band or paper clip... You should still be intrigued by ANDROID...truth be told, I don't think there's anyone that reads F:AT with any regularity that _isn't_ going to fall in love with the game. There's a couple of things I want to see work in a couple of gaming environments and with some different folks before I give a full judgment on it, but I'm pretty sure it's going to go down as one of the best games of 2008. |
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... I suspect I'll fall in love with it, but getting it on the table is another matter. File it with all my complex wargames? That's really what is keeping me from it. I'm getting BSG instead. |
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... I think BSG will turn out to be more accessible and probably more widely played- it\'s more immediate like that, but it\'s also safer and not quite as boundary-pushing. It\'s an incredible design in its own right, you definitely won\'t be disappointed in it. You know what\'s weird? I was thinking abotu my most recent game acquistions and they look like this: BSG COSMIC ENCOUNTER ANDROID MECANISBURGO KRIEGBOT Science Fiction games, every one. |
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... You know what's weird? I was thinking abotu my most recent game acquistions and they look like this: BSG COSMIC ENCOUNTER ANDROID MECANISBURGO KRIEGBOT Science Fiction games, every one. Talisman? |
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... The thing that surprised me about BSG is that, in spite of a 30-page rule book, play is quite simple. The game really takes place above the board. That will likely make it more accessible to the less-gamey among us, if any them ever find out it exists. Sag. |
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... Yeah, I think you hit it on the head on the head Mike: Android just oozes PKDness doesn't it? Does that statement make any sense? Whatever. That alone is a huge selling point for me. Something tells me that Android will provide that same feeling you get from playing Magic Realm where , once you finsh playing, it's as if you snap out of this trance and think "wow, that was fucking cool." I seriously need to find some people to play this with. |
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... Hey, you add TIMESCAPE and TALISMAN is science fiction! I also electively left TITAN off that list too. BSG is really simple once you play it. You're right, the board, cards, adn whatnot are really second fiddle to the interaction. |
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... Reading the rules of Android, it looked like it might either be extremely thematic, or, strangely, the opposite: feel really abstract. It looks like there are a *ton* of very abstract, math-y game mechanics (action points, evidence is just plain numbers that eventually decides the murderer Knizia-style, in order to manage your personal demons you...put good/bad tokens on your plot card?) that really better be super-themed-up on the cards in order to work at ALL. You'll have to let us know how it actually plays. |
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... Sag said, The thing that surprised me about BSG is that, in spite of a 30-page rule book, play is quite simple. The game really takes place above the board. That will likely make it more accessible to the less-gamey among us, if any them ever find out it exists. I've only played BSG once so far, but we decided that it was really important to cover all the rules before play started, because otherwise the traitor would obviously be the person who kept looking things up in the rules. |
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... I'm excited by this one too, but I'll see for myself when it hits the table. My goodness, Barnes writes a favourable first impression, suddenly the designer chips in and other, who haven't played the game are making stark statements about how awesome it's going to be. I wanna see game reports! The worst thing we can do to Android is to hype it like it happened to Agricola. |
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... Android and Talisman are of course bought. And Android looks stranger and stranger. I do like BSG a LOT. But it is SO slow to get started. A lot of skill card text, and the understanding of all of the action options is pretty daunting. And Kevin: definitely look up Orient Express, and maybe Sherlock Holmes Consulting Detective. And Star Saga. If you have any love for roleplaying and boardgames, you need to look at Star Saga. Not strictly a boardgame, but there are a lot of things there that no other game has even come close to managing. (They cheat by having a BASIC program to handle the AI. As a bonus, you actually get to look at source code produced by Werdna.) |
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... The impressions around here for Android were favorable before Michael wrote this. FFG has proven it knows its target audience as far as theme goes and that is why people are excited about it. From what I'm reading though most seem skeptical about the gameplay and are waiting for reviews. Now if Barnes posts how it will outsell Arkham Horror and you'll play it 10,000 times in the first month alone because its destined to be the #1 game on the internet due to its awesomness then we're entering Game Z territory. But if you look closely you'll see he actually mentioned some possible negatives and even he has a wait-and-see attitude towards it still. |
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...Now if Barnes posts how it will outsell Arkham Horror and you'll play it 10,000 times in the first month alone because its destined to be the #1 game on the internet due to its awesomness then we're entering Game Z territory. ahem... the puzzle thing, like I said, is kind of genius. The movement thing, with the "vehicle caliper" pieces, is smart But still, I can't stress enough, the game looks and feels awesome so far as a whole and I think there are some very experimental and possibly revolutionary ideas going on. And here is where I can almost smell the homebaked cherry pie from across Z Gameland: You should still be intrigued by ANDROID...truth be told, I don't think there's anyone that reads F:AT with any regularity that _isn't_ going to fall in love with the game. There's a couple of things I want to see work in a couple of gaming environments and with some different folks before I give a full judgment on it, but I'm pretty sure it's going to go down as one of the best games of 2008. And this from a tourist just returning from an imaginary trip to Z Gameland: Something tells me that Android will provide that same feeling you get from playing Magic Realm where , once you finsh playing, it's as if you snap out of this trance and think "wow, that was fucking cool." That's about comparing it to getting laid. Fine by me *once you have played the game*. Enough time to drool over it. |
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... Frank mentioned Sherlock Holmes Consulting Detective--I actually looked this game up for the first time when trying to figure out what Android might be like. Well--I guess it's not. That said, I would be interested in opinions on the Sherlock Holmes game. |
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... I'm very excited about Android. I'm was actually reading The Moon is a Harsh Mistress when I heard about Android. And naming the one city Heinlein is very cool. Some how fantasy games don't excite me but science fiction rocks. It's probably why I play Doom rather than Descent and Arkham Horror vs. some other fantasy adventure type game. And Ti3 and StarCraft vs. anything else. Bummer Barnes about the job. Good Luck. |
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... Of course I\'m GAME Zing y\'all...because I have played the game and you have not. Well, at least a couple of turns of it. By myself. And Kevin Wilson promised to write me a check for twenty dollars if I said it was better than RACE FOR THE GALAXY. But seriously, it\'d be dishonest for me to come on here and not be excited about the game or interested in some of its design elements. I was excited when it was announced, I was excited when it showed up in the mail, I was excited after I played a couple of test turns,and I\'m excited to talk about it now. After I play a few full games, I may not be so excited. I don\'t think it\'s going to reinvent the wheel, surmount sliced bread, or cure cancer. But it would be a really, really stupid bet to wager against the fact that most F:AT folks will like it because it speaks _exactly_ to the kinds of things we\'ve been talking about as high on our priority lists for years. I do think some people are going to be put off by some of the more complex elements, and I think the stuff that Dragonstout mentioned could very well prove fatal for some folks if they don\'t pan out over the course of the game. The \"Wah, fiddly!\" crowd is going to practicaly drop dead over some elements of it and others will likely be \"concerned\" about whether the characters are balanced since some of them have better cars than the others or whatever. At the end of the day, it\'s going to come down to how it turns out with you and your group- regardless of how thoughtful and challenging the design on paper is. |
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... Like Jur said...I'm kind of disappointed that there's been this much hype here already without ANYONE having even played the game ONCE. Still excited about it, though. |
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... I'm excited for Android. I totally like the theme, PKD is great. Cyberpunky stuff is totally underrepresented. I like the sound of all the plot cards, twilight cards, baggage, being a dirty cop or good cop. Etc. It's pretty rules heavy with lots of stuff going on. In a way it kind of reminds me of Marvel Heroes. How it was hard to grasp how the game plays just from reading the rules. But I like Marvel Heroes so I hope I will like Android too. My hang ups are I was hoping for more of a deduction/mystery game inside my adventure game, but I can make do with the system as it is. Connecting the story and the amount of narrative going on should make up for that. Play time is pretty long at 3 hours. I probably won't be able to get my wife to play. My other problem is getting 3 players together for a 3-hour game. So it probably won't be a "must buy" for me until I take care of that player issue. I guess I should stop trolling the internets so much and make real friends. Also Barnes, bummer about being laid off. |
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... No Frozen wastes in your box?  So it was a pretty quiet year and now suddenly my wallet is copping a raping. And we haven't even gotten to expansions yet! I hope the start of next year is quiet so we can play catch up. |
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... I haven't yet read the rules, but I love the theme of Android. I see it's for a minimum of 3 players. Hope it can be played with 2 because else it's going to be the second consecutive FFG release with a theme I really like (Science Fiction is my favorite theme) that I won't be able to play... |
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... Also if you need a job come down to Australia. The welfare cheques here are probably bigger than a writer in the US would earn, but if your too proud for that just write up some bullshit about the Abouriginal plight and you'll have the government throwing grants at you left and right, even if you only sell 1 copy. |
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... Like Skeletor -- I am desperately hoping for some Frozen Wastes. My wallet is also taking a raping  |
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... For those of you who haven't already, download the rulebook for Android just to view the eye candy. http://new.fantasyflightgames....e-book.pdf It should come with a Vangelis CD. Sag. |
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... Android is sounding Insanely cool. Anything that brings boardgames closer to RPG's is a good thing in my book! "Long live the King" anyone???" Steve"RPGer"Avery |
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... No, Steve. Because Long Live the King is bad. Pity. There's a really good game hiding in there somewhere--they just didn't find it. |
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...It's pretty rules heavy with lots of stuff going on. In a way it kind of reminds me of Marvel Heroes. I thought of the exact same thing, especially with how abstract the Marvel Heroes mechanics are! Reading the new article about dealing with your inner demons that Kevin W. posted at FFG.com, though, I'm seeing just what I was hoping for: that the cards provide a lot of flavor that was missing from the cold hard rules. |
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... Jur, when you clip out only the positive parts then yes I agree it looks pretty Z'd. I still think there's more excitement for what it could be than hype of what it will be though. And remember, it is available now (or close to now) unlike Agricola, Dominion, and Race which were hyped as being the next greatest games months before they were readily available to the masses. You can pick up a copy next week and post a bad review if you want before people start fanatically believing the game must be good since nobody has said otherwise. |
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... And that, I think, is why I really like FFG's decision to materialize the game out of thin air. There was no snowball of hype, no internet parrots chirping about it well in advance due to their privileged positions as members of the Gathering of Friends or whatever, and there was no backlash. The game is released, and it is what it is. The internet- across all mediums- has really ruined the simple surprise of seeing a trailer for a movie that you had no idea was coming out or walking into a game store and seeing a brand new game you've never heard of. We know MONTHS in advance what some freaking internet forum junkies think about something, and all too often that colors the opinions of people to follow. CASTLEVANIA: JUDGMENT is a good example...if it were 1988, the game would have been bought and loved by most fans of the series with no complaints. In 2008, everybody knew about the game months in advance and in the forums and on websites internet pundits were already complaining about it before the game was _even finished with development_. Horacio- I'm not sure if it's actually out yet or not...I suspect it will ship with TALISMAN, so probably in stores next week? Dragonstout- the cards add TONS of what you're looking for. It's a simple thing, but what those "good" and "bad" tokens actually represent are given context by the current plot of the character. So a story may mean that they are "shame" or "cowardice" or whatever and there is a narrative reason that they are given/received. It makes a difference. |
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... So, I just picked up today's mail and there were two things addressed directly to me. One is the new Fall catalog from Fantasy Flight Games and another is one of those credit card offers with checks to cash/use. Coincidence? I think not.... I counted 4 games and 5 expansions in the new catalog that are close to being "must buys," most of it brand new stuff. Eeek!!! |
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... "It is also fairly complex, with a lot of rules and a hell of a lot of text. ......there's more flavor text, fluff, and background than I think I've ever seen in a board game." Well you obvious haven't played any of the games GW published from 1985 to 1995. Dark Future hade a rulebokk of 96 pages, of which more than half was fluff/background. The same goes for most of their BigBox games like Adeptus Titanicus, Advanced Space Crusade, Space Hulk, Advanced HeroQuest, Blood Bowl, Man O' War, Mighty Empires, Necromunda, Tyranid Attacks and more games that I have forgotten. Surely it's nice the FGG also brings us games with a deep background, but it's nothing new in the gaming industry. |
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... "And this from a tourist just returning from an imaginary trip to Z Gameland: Something tells me that Android will provide that same feeling you get from playing Magic Realm where , once you finsh playing, it's as if you snap out of this trance and think "wow, that was fucking cool." That's about comparing it to getting laid. Fine by me *once you have played the game*. Enough time to drool over it." Hunh? You're beefing over the fact that I have a good feeling about ANDROID being a really cool "experience" game? Which is something I think Kevin W. was shooitng for to begin with? Look, I'm in no way trying to hype the game- all I'm saying is hat I really look forward to trying it out and that, much like MR, all that "fiddlyness" will probably be worth it once it's all said and done. The last time I took any kid of imaginary trip involved a blotter of acid, a few grams of Jamaican Gum hash, and watching Akira 5 times in a row on my buddy's dad's kick ass home theatre. It was, like, '93 or something, so I can't confirm or deny whether a precognitive awareness or ANDROID's awesomeness was part of the trip. Now go and give ANDROID a 10 on TOS or I'll boil your fucking bunny. |
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... The Talisman Upgrade Pack is indeed shipping with the FFG Revised 4th Edition box. Both should be in US stores beginning Monday, along with Android and Cosmic Encounter. |
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... Android,I know I'll never get anyone to play this, but I'll probably buy it for coolness alone.  Just messing around with the rules & componets are worth the price. Barnes just sell out & get a govt.job,your probably already dammned so get some job security for the effort. Well it workes for me  OD |
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... We had two games of Android yesterday. The first session -- which I didn't sit in, because I was playing other stuff -- lasted about six hours and they didn't finish the game. The second game, which we started just before seven, wrapped up after 10. Having someone there who played in the first session really helped us. This is a big, complicated adventure game that -- like Arkham Horror -- looks intimidating and scary when you first look at it but -- again, like Arkham Horror -- starts to make perfect sense before the first day passes. I don't think we got everything right, but I do think that we came close enough that I got a pretty good feel for the game. |
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... yes, yes, so you played it... but what was it like after you got through the first day? |
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... "what was it like after you got through the first day?" Each player's turn went faster, but some of the players were grumbling about the fact that the game is complicated and they wanted to uncover a mystery, not build a story. I'm working on a full review of the game. |
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... Thought I'd follow up on the FFG TALISMAN...I played it last night and it's pretty much exactly what you'd expect- which is, of course, awesome. There are no major changes, new characters, or new encounters and it is by and large exactly like the BI edition other than the component/card quality now matching up with FFG's standards, the miniatures are back, and more importantly those stupid little number tiles are replaced by...those old timey plastic cones! Whoo ha! There are some slight changes and fixes throughout, and for all I could see there wasn't any errors, miswordings, or anything like that so those disatisfied with the QC of the BI edition will be pleased. I think the printing looks a lot better, actually. It seems like it's printed a little darker. I miss that fancy velour box try though. There is a new mechanic, this whole "Fate" thing. Each character gets a number of fate tokens at the beginning of the game- it's another stat on the card. Each token can be used to reroll one die that the character rolls, but not creature rolls and only once per roll (so you just reroll one die in a 2d6 roll). As a TALISMAN Veteran, I thought "that's for cowards and weaklings" at first. But playing with it, I actually really liked it. It's kind of a decision to gamble or not on a second roll, and I think that actually adds to the suprise and it's totally in the spirit of the game. It's nice to have the reroll in pinch situations where you really, really need to roll a six. There are a few changes in the card and board text to accomodate fate- the Witch, for example, now replenishes fate on a six. if you don't like it, just play without it. But I suspect pretty much everyone will play with it from now on if they weren't already house-ruling something similar. So again, if you have the BI edition then the FFG upgrade kit will do exactly what you want it to. If you don't have the BI edition, then the FFG is the one you want. Unless you want to buy my BI edition on the cheap to upgrade! |
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... Depends...if you like 3rd, then you probably ought to stick with 3rd. 4th is basically "revised 2nd" so the FFG edition is like "revised revised 2nd". I like 3rd a lot, unlike some folks...but I'd say that the new one- if its expanded properly- will be the one to have. |
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... Couple of things: Like everyone, I'm intrigued by Android and will definitely be getting it. Unfortunately, I have the feeling that my group will try to avoid it because of the amount of involvement. It's not that they don't like long absorbing games, since we play Arkham Horror and the like pretty regularly. But I have a few other games that are disdained by a portion of my group because of the level of detail involved. I hope it doesn't turn out that way. As for CE, I'm thrilled with the new release. I only ever got a chance to play the AH version and it was pretty mundane, so I traded it and never looked back. With 50 aliens, Flares, and the new technology, this new version sound excellent. Granted, the graphics in the AH version were quite nice, but I'm willing to lose a little flash for more substance. I owned a copy of Talisman 2nd Ed. with all of the expansions except Dragons. We played it for 20 years until I 'traded' it to a BGGer in exchange for a bunch of games from Thoughthammer (Descent, Runebound, Hammer of the Scots, couple others.) Since Runebound was part of that trade, I've never regretted replacing one fantasy adventure game with another. When BI basically reprinted 2nd Ed. with all of the inherent flaws that it held (many of which we had house ruled, like barring the Prophetess from play), I was unenthused, to put it mildly. Now that FFG has done their usual clean-up, added Fate, and have created expansions like the Reaper (who doesn't remember Gauntlet? "Death in a box! Run!!!"), I may reacquire it... but my wife may kill me first. |
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... I love 3rd edition Talisman too, even if Wayne England did go a little skull-crazy in the artwork. If you have all of the 3rd edition stuff, 4th edition will seem a little weak at first, but I think its design is an improvement overall. Once the expansions are out, it will no doubt seem superior. And I like not having that goddamned tower blocking the action. |
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