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Open Day at the Hate Fest Open Day at the Hate Fest Hot

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A while back I saw a thread where the inestimable Ubarose, who makes everything happen around here, said that she found it very useful to know what games frequent reviewers really hated, because it helped give a wider picture of their taste. Not being one to let inspiration for a possible column slip by, I grabbed this one with both hands. I’ve gotten too good at picking out games I’m going to like and it seems like a long time since I’ve had the opportunity to really savage something, so I’m looking forward to this. Not that I can dismantle a game in an entertaining a fashion as Matt Drake, nor in as vituperative a manner as Michael Barnes, but it’s still going to be fun to try.

It’s worth mentioning that I’d been planning a piece like this for some time before that discussion. My inspiration was simple: it suddenly struck me one day that I call myself an Ameritrash gamer more because there are very few Ameritrash titles that I really hate then because there are lots I really love. In other words my very favourite games are an eclectic mix of lots of different styles, but my least favourite games are largely Euros and abstracts. Having said that when I actually compiled a list for this piece I found that my absolutely most-hated games were pretty eclectic mix as well, but that’s because I had to pick a relatively small number for this piece.

Of course I had to choose some games to bully, but that’s actually harder than it sounds. My all time most hated games are Tic-Tac-Toe and a godawful piece of children’s garbage called The Very Hungry Caterpillar Game but what use is it to you lot to know that I loathe and despise those games, or why? I shudder at the memory of playing some relatively obscure older titles such as the shockingly derivative Warlock of Firetop Mountain board game or the easily broken Elixir but is that’s hardly relevant to my modern taste in games. My distaste for some popular games such as Power Grid and Hive is well-known but would I truly call them terrible games? No, just not games I’d choose to play - I can see the appeal. So I had to select games that were well-known enough to be relevant and which enjoyed at least a reasonable level of critical approval amongst gamers. Using this criteria I managed to whittle the list down to six. I shall now review these six in increasing order of awfulness, starting with.

A Victory Lost. A game hailed by many as a near-ideal starter wargame thanks to the marriage of a fairly well-known bit of history, accessible rules that teach pretty much all the basics of hex and counter games and deep strategy. What they don’t tell you is that this also boasts an eight-hour play time, sufficient downtime for the German player to write a couple of novels while the Soviet player works through his STAVKA commands and enough chits to bury your grandmother. But that’s such a familiar fault amongst wargames that it couldn’t make this list on that alone. No, what really and truly appalled me about this game was that the strategy is reliant on a quite hideous level of spatial micromanagement. The game works by you pulling HQs from a cup and then you get to move all the units with command range of that HQ. So it doesn’t take a genius to work out that it’s generally a good idea, if you can, to have a unit move from the command radius of one HQ into another so that it can be activated more than once per turn. Queue endless poring over the map, adjusting every moving counter by one or two hexes as well as lots of hex counting and movement point calculating to try and optimize the combination of getting it closer to where you need it and ensuring it’s in the command radius of a yet-to-be activated HQ. And of course the HQs themselves can move too, adding to the agony and analysis paralysis. Not to mention the gamey fact that when pushed to extremes this tactic can pretty much allow a panzer division to travel the length of Russia in one turn. How anyone can enjoy this endless fiddling, optimizing, repositioning, repeated ad nasueum for a vast number of different units, is wholly beyond me, let alone be sufficient to hand the game a number of awards.

Next in order of dreadfulness is the well-known turkey Zombies!!!. Too well known, arguably, to be particularly worthwhile singling out for a slating. But it has its defenders, particularly on here. The defence usually seems to be that it’s an entertaining game with the right crowd who are just in the mood for fun: chuck some dice around, make some zombie noises, drink beer. That became no excuse at all the second that Last Night on Earth appeared on the block, doing exactly that but a whole, whole lot better than Zombies!!!, but even before then it was pretty thin. If memory serves, Zombies!!! works like this: you draw a tile and place some zombies. You roll a dice, and move. Then you roll a dice and move that many zombies one space. If you’re lucky you might end up in some combat but that doesn’t happen every turn and the one-space movement means you rarely get to swamp other players. So basically most of your turn is spent doing administration. Pulling a tile. Adding it to the board. Digging zombies and other crap out of the box and placing it on the tile. Making zombies mill around in a meaningless fashion. Yeah, sometimes there’s some exciting combat and sometimes you get to land a nasty event card on another player but mostly playing this game consists of doing nothing at all. I first played this game with five players and I honestly do not remember the last time I was so bored playing a game. I sat and watched four other players do nothing for ten minutes, and then did nothing myself. Repeated for 90 minutes and we were lucky it ended that quickly: in addition to its other many faults, this one is capable of dragging horribly. I’ll admit the game might be improved significantly playing with two or three, and apparently some house rules can help a lot but my games with it have been so utterly awful that I have no inspiration to find out. Especially when I could just play the excellent Last Night on Earth instead.

For the next slot I had to pick an older game, albeit a relatively well known one thanks to a (now defunct) Flash implementation that was doing the rounds a few years back, and one that like my previous choice has its share of passionate defenders. I had to pick it because Chainsaw Warrior totally deserves to be here. Let’s skip over the wisdom of releasing a full-price, full production quality solo board game in an era when video games were really hitting the mainstream. Let’s pass by the atrocious design decision to give the player individual numbered chits for everything instead of tracks or dice, leading to unbelievable administrative overhead if you don’t bypass them. Let’s talk about the game itself. You flip a card, fight it if it’s a monster, move the time track on. And that’s basically it. For 90 minutes. Yeah sure, there are lots of different ways you can die: running out of time, accumulating wounds or radiation poisoning but they’re all handled in exactly the same way by just shifting points up a track, and all combat is reduced to the same two dice roll, effectively making encountering a feeble zombie the same as encountering a dreaded mutant. There’s no attempt to actual explore the simple mechanics to actually prise some strategy or even - heaven forbid - some variety out of it. Everything looks, feels and is handled exactly the same thus ruining the one thing that might save this dire game from oblivion, the generation of some interesting theme and narrative to keep the player engaged. There is one interesting thing that happens at the start of the game, which is that you get to choose your starting equipment from different decks, the only point in the entire game in which you have some actual control over what’s going on. Unfortunately what’s in each deck varies wildly in power, making this aspect of the game as much of a crapshoot as everything else. Indeed I strongly suspect that what you draw at the start almost always determines whether you have any chance of winning or not. In the modern day and age why anyone would spend time with this rather than some version of Resident Evil or some such is entirely beyond me unless, perhaps, they were cannibalistic savages living in a cave totally isolated from the entirety of human civilization and lacking basic amenities such as electricity or the company of other people.

We’re into the real depths now. The previous three games have extremely limited redeeming qualities. The remaining three have none. It’s well known that I’m not a big fan of co-operative games, so no big surprise one made this list. The choice was easy though: quite the worst co-operative game it has ever been my misfortune to play - even worse than Knizia’s travesty of a Lord of the Rings franchise game - is Red November. It gets the vote because it not only suffers from every single thing that makes the majority of co-ops insufferable in the first place: alpha-dog boss player syndrome, lack of variety, mechanical approach to strategy and no actual co-operation amongst players, but also amazingly manages to not even get the basics right. There’s no sense of escalating tension, just a series of unconnected random events, no sense of meaningfully being able to rise to the challenge, and it manages to be slow and turgid when it should be fast and exciting. It’s also totally, totally derivative - there’s not a single thing in this game that hasn’t been done in another co-op previously except better, so there’s no reason at all to play this over one of it’s superior predecessors except for the mindless cult of the new drive to collect and play every single game ever, regardless of quality. And the sprinkles on top of this stinking turd is a painfully adolescent theme about drunken Russian Gnomes trapped in a submarine, a theme which thinks it’s hilarious but is in fact grindingly unfunny and bears little, if any, connection to the mechanics. It clearly only exists because one or both of the credited designers decided they wanted to jump on the co-op bandwagon when it was in full swing and is an absolute poster child for everything that’s wrong with co-ops, Eurogames and the modern game industry.

For my penultimate game I have, sadly, had to pick a game from one of the few mass-market franchises that’s actually plenty of fun, Risk.Not the original - there’s some life left in that old dog yet, even though for hobbyists it’s been superseded by titles like Nexus Ops and Conquest of Nerath. No, the various Risk spin-offs I’ve played haven’t varied in quality all that much because the core concept and mechanics remain intact with the notable and unfortunate exception of the Lord of the Rings franchise game. Let’s be clear that I’m not talking about the more recent Trilogy Edition which I have never played for the very good reason that it’s direct predecessor is so utterly, inexcusably awful. The reason is very simple. While the basic concept of playing Risk with some Lord of the Rings themed pieces on a map of middle earth is appealing, and beefed up by the addition of some nifty mechanical extras, Lord of the Rings Risk fails totally thanks to its idiotic win condition. The game ends on a random turn, determined by a dice roll each player makes at the end of their turn as the fellowship nears the edge of the board, and the winner is the player with the most territory. But remember how Risk works, mechanically: each turn you grab some re-enforcements (hopefully lots by cashing in some cards) and go rampaging across the map, capturing territory. Then your turn ends. So, unless you’re playing long-winded world domination style games the player that’s just been usually has more territory than everyone else. Read that statement again, and then recall that the game end is determined by a random roll at the end of each player’s turn. So … the player on whose watch the game ends nearly always wins. I’ve played this a couple of times, and the guy I know who owns a copy has played a couple more with his kids and we’ve found this to be invariably true. So if you want the experience of playing Lord of the Rings Risk without spending a penny, just grab a copy of the rules, get some thematically-related material to set the scene and then run through the end-game mechanic to see which player gets to end the game and declare them the winner. You’ll not only have saved money but several hours of wasted life as well. How the hell such a glaring, dreadful, obvious mechanical problem escaped the play-testers at a company as big as Hasbro is beyond me. Unless, of course, they just decided to quickly cash in on the licence and didn’t bother play-testing, but obviously that’s too cynical to be realistic. Because it’s not like they’d rush this out and then shortly afterwards release a Trilogy edition to coincide with the third film that includes everything in this game plus some more stuff, just so fans would have to buy the same game twice, would they?

And now we’re at the bottom of the pile. And I’m sad to announce that it’s going to be something of an anti-climax because they game I’ve chosen to fill this putrid slot is not, in many ways, a terrible game. I’ve played it more times than several of the other games on this list. Unlike many of the games that have come before it, it has no obvious mechanical deficiencies. It actually has some features that I’d normally associate with good, or at the very least acceptable design: a smidgen of randomness, a dab of player interaction. It’s fast playing and fairly cheap which are normally ways to ameliorate even the most destructive flaws in a game. Worst of all I find it hard to express just why it is that I’ve come to loathe it with such a passion. So this isn’t quite going to be the hatchet job you might have been expecting, but rather me stumbling to find words to justify blind hatred on relatively thin ground. But basically the problem with Samurai is that it’s so, so boring. Boring to the extreme. Boring to the point of pointlessness. Mechanically it ties itself in a strange knot whereby it appears to be a game of analytics but throws in just enough randomness and screwage to make anticipation and planning completely pointless. And that should be enough to inject some tension into the game were the randomness and/or screwage actually at all interesting, but as it is you’re doing, what, swapping a hat for a fat man? And in a move that borders on the offensive, the game takes one of the crowning themes of nerd-dom - the Samurai of feudal Japan - and sits it on top of a fucking abstract. I mean OK so it’s played on a map of japan, but a perfect, optimized map where everything is precisely equidistant from the scoring centers, meaning there’s no hot-spots, no desperate choke-holds of competition, nothing so much as a terrain effect, nothing except placing tiles and wishing you were doing something more interesting like watching some flies circle a yak’s arse. The “high point” of this yawn-fest occurs when a scoring piece on the board is surrounded by player hexes, at which point you get to … add up some numbers, thus transforming the single part of the game that might have had some momentary excitement in it into an accounting exercises and depriving it of any sense of spontaneity at all. Same goes for the conclusion which is saddled with yet another patented Knizia pointlessly-convoluted-scoring-system. It’s true there are a lot of boring, cookie-cutter Eurogames with pasted on themes, but Samurai takes the biscuit thanks to an unholy combination of critical praise amongst the cognoscenti, stealing what ought to be a really compelling theme and pasting onto a complete dog of a game and being really quite unbelievably dull even by the standards of its brethren.

So there you have it. Six of the worst. I hope you found enlightening. Personally I found writing about those games a whole lot more fun than playing them.

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Comments (60)
  • avatarJazzbeaux

    Seems like I have had the fortune to only play one of the games on this list - Zombies!!! Got that when getting back into boardgames and jeez who thought that was fun? Do the expansions actually add anything good to the mix or just make it more tortuous? I would put it next to Munchkin as a game to burn, but given the expansions for that I might be in the minority.

    Sam

  • avatarSuperflyTNT

    Red November is a shitload of fun. Can't believe that you don't like it, Matt.

  • avatarMattDP
    Quote:
    Can't believe that you don't like it, Matt.

    And I can't believe that you do. YMMV and all that.

    Tell me why it's better than - say - Pandemic or Ghost Stories or Lord of the Rings? Or just tell why it's different, that'd be enough. Because I really can't see why you'd pick RN over one of those three, ever.

  • avatarShapeshifter

    I must say, I wasn't blown away by Red november either. I liked the time-track surrounding the board and the time-pressure element it brings to the game, but it never felt like my decissions were crucial. Everything you do seems to be lacking any interesting dillema's. You just react to an event that just happened and in 95% of the times the best move is pretty obvious. So it just boils down to racing to the location in time and do your stuff. I liked Ghost Stories alot more.
    It had some interesting choices that were not obvious and the special unique abilities of the characters (like in Pandemic) forced the team to work together all the time in order to survive the assaults from ghosts.
    That said, given it's modest price I feel you get your money's worth with Red november.
    I like that it womes in such a small box, making it the ideal travel game.

  • avatarKen B.

    The time element makes Red November for me, the overlapping turns, where it feels like you watch one Gnome running around trying to fix things, then..."Meanwhile....", it cuts to another Gnome and what he was doing during that time.

    Plus the theme is so bizarre, it gets a nod for that as well. Drunk Russian Gnomes on a submarine that was obviously put together with some school glue and duct tape? While a Kraken floats nearby? And where you can actually pass out drunk? Sure, that works for me.

    As for the others, Zombies!!! is pretty much one we all fell for before realizing it's a piece of shit game, and Lord of the Rings: Risk is indeed overlong and pretty anti-thematic in a lot of ways. The others I haven't played.

  • avatarSagrilarus

    First of all, you're my favorite person on Earth right now for trashing Samurai, and for trashing it for exactly the same reasons I do. Truly an awful, pointless game, yet looked upon as some icon of theme and intellectual tension. If ever a game was dressed in the emperor's new clothes this is it.

    Point two is more of a history lesson. Faidutti originally developed Red November with a Russian Navy theme, inspired by the loss of the Kursk in 2000. Had this sober theme been left on the play (perhaps avoiding the Kursk itself due to the loss of life involved -- the film Gray Lady Down came to mind as I was reading his web site during development) I think some level of real tension and drama could have been applied. You may have still not been impressed with the mechanics but at least the game would be thematically sound.

    By the time it came out the last thing I wanted to see on my table was another cooperative title so I never purchased, but the idea of Gnomes in a submarine is this strange grafting of whimsy dust and gun metal. It just fails miserably. This is what happens when the marketing guy is asked for his opinion ten minutes before going to press. "The subject could offend someone somewhere. They'll complain on the Internet. They won't buy a copy. Can we make this about mythical creatures and gardening instead?" You can't tell me Faidutti was happy with the compromise that came out of that meeting.

    Thanks again for savaging Samurai.

    S.

  • avatarChapel

    You had me up to Samurai. One of my top 10 games of all time. I love it because of it abstractness. That and Einfach Genial are the two real abstracts I would play any day of the week. The theme of samurai mean nothing to me as the theme of Chess means nothing. I'm sure people will continue to argue just how wrong I am about the theme of chess, but really it's just as pasted on as any other themed(not thematic) games out there. I love it!

  • avatarSuperflyTNT  - re:
    MattDP wrote:

    Tell me why it's better than - say - Pandemic or Ghost Stories or Lord of the Rings? Or just tell why it's different, that'd be enough. Because I really can't see why you'd pick RN over one of those three, ever.

    Come on, Matt. This is a pretty strawman question.

    It's different than Pandemic in that each player will have different abilities based on the chit pulls, there's a time element, and of course, there's randomness. There's a press your luck mechanic there that adds to the tension. Then there's that whole player elimination thing. Apples and oranges, big time.

    It's different than Lord of the Rings because I'd actually play Red November. Bruno>Knizia 10/10 times.

    Ghost stories has characters with different inherent abilities, and there's a completely different "bad shit happening" mechanic. In RN, the decisions you make, specifically how much time to spend doing something, effects how much bad shit happens, whereas in Ghost Stories the ghosts appearing are a little more predictable. While I'd argue that GS and RN are the most similar, it'd be a stretch to call them the same.

    RN is still one of my favorite co-op puzzlers, many years later.

  • avatarSagrilarus  - re: re:
    SuperflyTNT wrote:
    MattDP wrote:

    Tell me why it's better than - say - Pandemic or Ghost Stories or Lord of the Rings? Or just tell why it's different, that'd be enough. Because I really can't see why you'd pick RN over one of those three, ever.


    Come on, Matt. This is a pretty strawman question.

    Strawman question? That was a toss. Don't complain about pitches down the middle.

    S.

  • avatarMattDP
    Quote:
    Come on, Matt. This is a pretty strawman question.

    Not really. Although it might look so to someone who has more than a passing interest in co-ops I suppose.

    Quote:
    It's different than Pandemic in that each player will have different abilities based on the chit pulls, there's a time element, and of course, there's randomness. There's a press your luck mechanic there that adds to the tension. Then there's that whole player elimination thing.

    Players have variable powers in pandemic. All co-ops have an inbuilt time element otherwise the game would never end - it's just made obvious in RN. There's randomness in Pandemic in the form of the shuffle for the outbreak deck. There's push your luck in Pandemic in the form of wondering whether it's "safe" to leave certain infection centres for later. I'll give you the elimination thing but it's hardly sufficient to differentiate the game on its own, and in a short co-op it's actually pretty meaningless.

    Quote:
    It's different than Lord of the Rings because I'd actually play Red November. Bruno>Knizia 10/10 times.

    Point taken, but this isn't just Bruno's game as Sag's comment makes clear. And Lord of the Rings also happens to suck fat, aged Donkey cock. Just marginally less than RN.

    Quote:
    Ghost stories has characters with different inherent abilities, and there's a completely different "bad shit happening" mechanic. In RN, the decisions you make, specifically how much time to spend doing something, effects how much bad shit happens, whereas in Ghost Stories the ghosts appearing are a little more predictable.

    Again, the time you spend doing stuff in Ghost Stories affects how much bad shit happens - you really want to traverse the board to grab some Buddhas, while some bad-ass ghosts are allowed to advance on the village unchecked? Again, it's just slightly nearer the surface and more visible in RN, which does't mean at all that's it's something new or different.

  • avatarThe King in Yellow  - re:
    Jazzbeaux wrote:
    Seems like I have had the fortune to only play one of the games on this list - Zombies!!! Got that when getting back into boardgames and jeez who thought that was fun? Do the expansions actually add anything good to the mix or just make it more tortuous? I would put it next to Munchkin as a game to burn, but given the expansions for that I might be in the minority.

    Sam

    The expansions add nothing worthwhile and just make the game even longer. I'm one of those that tried to convince themselves that Zombies!!! was worth playing more than it actually was. Just avoid the whole franchise.

  • avatarjeb

    I bailed on ZOMBIES!!! after reading the rules. Traded for it and traded it away in about a three week span. Didn't look good.

    Here's a game I hate: MILLES BORNES. Once you know how to play, there is no other strategy. For the same reasons that Matt probably hates TIC-TAC-TOE, I hate MILLES BORNES--there is no game there. Just wait for the cards and get them or don't. You can't draw into more cards in a desperate dive, you can't unload dead cards, &c. Here's my review at BGG:

    Quote:
    Has a great French theme of treating others like crap. Mean-spirited and devoid of strategy once you know how to play.

    Here's another one: STONE AGE. I invoke my veto power weekly at the boardgame meetup to dodge this turd. I know it has its adherents here, but this game is NOT FUN. The interaction is limited the Euro-defining passive-aggressive worker placement bullshit. The theme is stapled over the Euro-defining "Widget Engine" gametype. And folks tittering about the "Love Hut" every fucking game makes me want to kill myself.

  • avatarGary Sax  - God damn I am with you

    -----This guy, hating Victory Lost since 4 years ago even though it's hailed as the ultimate mid-level wargame.

  • avatarMattDP
    Quote:
    Here's another one: STONE AGE

    Stone Age narrowly missed this list. It's really rather tedious but - unlike Samurai - it does apparently have some strategy. And some dice.

    Quote:
    This guy, hating Victory Lost since 4 years ago even though it's hailed as the ultimate mid-level wargame.

    It sounds like you're agreeing with me. But I'm not entirely sure. I hope you are, since it's a really bad game :)

  • avatarSuperflyTNT

    Coke and Pepsi are both cola products, both are very similar, but some people are zealous about Pepsi while the smarter ones like Coke.

    I think it really comes down to that. I like Ghost Stories, but Red November is just more up my alley than GS is, so I prefer it.

    And yes, Zombies is total shit. Even with expansions, all it's doing is making a larger pile of manure for the flies to circle.

  • avatarThe King in Yellow

    There's just something about shitty games that get undeserved love that bothers me more than it probably should. Stone Age is definitely one of those. It's way too popular at my game club, and I just want grab the table and yell, "Haven't you caught on yet? This game sucks!" whenever I see it set up yet again.
    Agricola is the other one. "Hey, wow, next turn you'll be able to buy a grain scoop!" And I'm someone that likes playing Euros, and because of my gaming group, I probably play more Euros than Ameritrash titles.

  • avatarmoofrank  - Stone Age

    Ewww. Hate that game.

    For all of the hate they get here, Agricola and especially Pillars of the Earth are much better games.

    (The best thing that Pillars of the Earth has going for it is relatively simple scoring.)

  • avatarJonJacob

    Well I like Stone Age. It's our families TTR. I enjoy it more then Agricola or Pillars by far. Probably the only worker placement games I like better then Stone Age are Dungeon Lords and Carson City. Dungeon Lords only some of the time as that game hurts my head for no good reason. Games I hate;

    Brass, Pandemic, and possibly Caylus. Brass and Pandemic are pure stinkers to me. Just nothing enjoyable at all in them. Brass is the least intuitive and most confusing game I've ever played and at no point did I ever know what I was doing. I was just bored and my head hurt. Pandemic I just don't see a game there at all. It is impossibly boring with actual people involved. Playing it alone to learn it I thought it would be great but then I realized playing it alone is all it's meant for.

    I also hate Age of Conan, but that's hardly fair. It has more to do with being so excited, so let down, and then so distraught I just gave it away.

    I like Zombies, that's a fun little game for 15$. Especially as it appeals to children and people who don't play games normally. It's just screams for variants the second you play it though. When I first played it my buddy and I immediately started changing the rules. It's hard for me to hate a game that's so cheap and un-pretentious. Regardless of the fact that it's not great. But hate is a strong word a game has to cost me a lot more to be worthy of hate.

  • avatarHatchling

    One of my favourite trades was giving away a near-new copy of Samurai, with all its fancy bits, in exchange for an old Ogre micro game. (To be honest, I didn't know at that time that Ogre was such a small and cheap game, but after a couple of plays I was very glad that my ignorance or indifference to market valuations paid off).

    I disagree with anyone who has anything bad to say about Agrigola. I was just now thinking about how much I like that game. Trying to develop and build in a way that makes best use of the occupation and improvement cards you get at the start is lots of fun. The fact that these cards are always different each game, and that they are different for each person at the table, makes every game feel new and tense.

    Pillars of the Earth was one of the worst gaming experiences I have ever had. It might have been because I played with people who always play it, and so the rulesplanation was truncated and full of insider eurogame shorthands. I had no idea how the 'engine' worked so everything seemed arbitrary. The game ended, points were tallied, and it was all totally meaningless. Barf.

  • avatarXlyce

    I have not played Zombies!!! in about 2 years, but I am always willing to play it or Munchkin. I don't play them for the end game, I play them for the journey.

    These two games really exemplify the difference between boardgamers and everyone else. I have a friend, let's call him "George" (his real name). Now George used to play boardgames with his friends, simple, easy to access ones like, National Pro Hockey, World in Flames and Europa, but then he got married and had kids. George's wife doesn't care for WiF or Europa, but she does like games. One day, at another friend's place, George and his wife were introduced to Munchkin and they loved it, so George bought all the games on eBay. They love Munchkin and play it regularly. I think George would like Zombies!!! for the same reasons as Munchkin, it is fun to play, and it is not serious.

    Oh yeah, I played Last Night on Earth and got rid of it after three plays because it sucked so hard.

  • avatarSka_baron  - re:
    Xlyce wrote:
    Oh yeah, I played Last Night on Earth and got rid of it after three plays because it sucked so hard.

    You know what, "Xlyce" (if that even IS your real name)? We're going to get rid of YOU because YOU suck so hard.

    WHATNOW?

  • avatarNotahandle

    I remember reading back in Counter magazine #3, how a winner in Samurai could actually fall to second place if they had gained one more of whatever it is you collect. Don't ask me for details, I can't remember. That alone got it filed in my 'don't buy this garbage' category. I'm pleased to say that, so far, I've managed to avoid playing it.

    As for the rest, I've played Zombies once, and agree it's pointless.

    Oh, and I kinda like Agricola.

  • avatarXlyce

    You know what, "Xlyce" (if that even IS your real name)? We're going to get rid of YOU because YOU suck so hard.

    WHATNOW?

    You will buy me a pony?

  • avatarSuperflyTNT

    I'm seeing a donkey show in Xlyce's future.

    Agricola's cool. It's a neat little game and there's a good amount of fuckery. Can't really complain about it.

  • avatarAarontu

    Totally agreed on LotR RISK. Vanilla Risk is a much better game, as is every other licensed version of Risk I've played. The Trilogy edition is, mechanically, even worse than the "non-complete" version, since Mordor is broken-good, and the map has a lot of dead-ends that will stupidly trap a conquering army. AND the end condition is the same, only every space in Mordor is a random roll to see if the ring moves/ends the game.

  • avatarRliyen

    I recently broke out Transformers Risk to play with The Boy. Overall, it's not too bad. Spice bloom-esque draws of Risk cards to see who gets additional units. Activating, deactivating war factories and corridors that block other sections of the map.

    Xlyce, Zombies!!! and Munchkin, REPRESENT!!!!

    My turd was at Averyfest, I don't recall the name of it, but it dealt with MIXING FUCKING PAINT to paint masterpieces. Oh, God. I had root canals more pleasurable than that game.

    One other one that disappointed me was Mall of Horror. I thought I'd like it, but it sucked. Believe me, it wasn't the group but the game.

  • avatarKen B.

    You can't hate Mall of Horror. You would be the first person I introduced it to who hated it. That game has a success streak of like four years running or something.

    I CHALLENGE YOU~!

  • avatarDair

    Rliyen, that sounds like Fresco. I haven't played it, but it sounds only slightly better than actually watching paint dry.

    Sweet, next years Trashfest will have a duel. I will in no way miss this event again.

  • avatarjeb

    I should host a REEF ENCOUNTER game at SpielByWeb to see if playing that game with some of your people would actually make that fun.

  • avatarRliyen

    Sorry to break that streak, Ken. I will, however, give it the old college try for your sake as to not sully your streak. Next year's Trashfest, it is.

  • avatarXlyce
    Quote:
    Agricola's cool.

    I would rather have sex with a donkey than play those shitty worker placement games. Caylus, Agricola, I am talking about you.

  • avatarBearn

    I'll admit i bought the trilogy LoTR and i played the game once to see what they did with it. It's pretty much everything you said it was going to be without having played it.

    However, i just couldn't resist getting a copy for $15 with all those bits in the game and the ring. The bits alone were worth the purchase even if you just toss the rest of the game in the trash :)

  • avatarjeb  - re:
    Xlyce wrote:
    Quote:
    Agricola's cool.


    I would rather have sex with a donkey than play those shitty worker placement games. Caylus, Agricola, I am talking about you.

    Hey, don't knock it 'til you tried it. AGRICOLA or CAYLUS, I mean.

    Also: donkey sex.

  • avatarSuperflyTNT

    WDGrant, trust me when I say that Fresco is terribly boring.

    To quote myself...

    "Or how about tripe like Fresco, where the object is to mix paints? Fuck that, if I want to mix paints, I'll do it, and I'll go even further by actually painting something. Like maybe a ultra bad-ass pewter miniature resembling some nightmare creature eating the white meat off of a damsel in distress!"

  • avatarHatchling  - re:
    Xlyce wrote:
    Quote:
    Agricola's cool.


    I would rather have sex with a donkey than play those shitty worker placement games. Caylus, Agricola, I am talking about you.

    Wow! Sex with donkeys must fucking rock! Maybe we should have a farm animal math trade!

  • avatarJackwraith

    This guy's way ahead of all of us: here

  • avatarXlyce

    Hell, it's got to be better than Agricola or Caylus.

    I have played Caylus, and I was hoping I would die so I wouldn't have to play it again.

  • avatarStan Leer

    Please explain to me the allure of Citadels.

    What a piece of crap. "Roles" is a generous discription. okay some screw your neighbor mechanic but I find this maddening dull.

    Caylus over Citadels anyday. Can't speak for Agricola but it appeals to me.

  • avatarozjesting

    ANY game can be worded out as hateful...but in the spirit of the day here is what I HATE and why!

    Power Grid: HATE this game! Not because of the math, not because of the downtime, but simply because it shows me how fucking impossible it is to get society to switch to green energy!

    Carcassonne, Wallenstien, Oregon (and many others): HATE that I need to build churches!

    Twilight Struggle: HATE that I have to ruin the lives of whole nations just to expand an ideology I am not even sure I totally believe in!

    Memoir '44: Hate that I am so willing to send so many troops to a needless death just because I need to cycle out my left flank cards to get back to crushing the right flank!

    Talisman: HATE that I am so willing to feed my long time companions to the Vampires just so I can have a SHOT at being the Ultimate Ruler!

    And so on and so on... :)

    I look foreward to the love article though...hate is easy.

  • avatarMattDP
    Quote:
    I look foreward to the love article though...hate is easy.

    That's not one article, it's five. And most of them are already written. I can post links if you want but I'm sure you can find my reviews of Imperial, Wrath of Ashardalon, Twilight Struggle and Arkham Horror if you look. I've not done Titan yet, but I'll get round to it one day.

  • avatarKingPut

    Great post Matt. Hate is good. Look how many posts came from Hate. My hate comes in 3 colors.

    1. Painfully shitty long games that I still wake up in the middle of night screaming from flash backs of playing the game. Zombies! (yes) and Outpost.

    2. Games that are ok but I hate because they've sucked up hours of my small amount of free time when I could have been playing a good game. Ticket to Ride, Dominion, Purto Rico.

    3. Games that hurt a part of my brain that I don't feel like using. Mastermind, Concentration, Mystery in the Abby, Power Grid, etc. or memory, deduction and mathy games.

  • avatarozjesting

    I see what you are thinking Matt, but I mean LOVE...the kind of love that overlooks the stuff that your friends all say suck, but no matter what you LOVE it in the same crazy ass way some people are hating here now.

    But really it is all the same now that I think about it. It can be easy to think you know what someone will like...but the more I play the more I am surprised at what people love even when I would have bet the house they'd hate it.

    If I only use myself...Reef Encounter. That is an AMAZING game once you are down on what it can do! I get the haters, doubters and mostly the "I don't get it" guys...but that is a mamma slappingly tough fight when you are in the soup with playas!

  • avatarMattDP
    Quote:
    I see what you are thinking Matt, but I mean LOVE...the kind of love that overlooks the stuff that your friends all say suck, but no matter what you LOVE it in the same crazy ass way some people are hating here now.

    Ah, okay. I'll add it to the list of article ideas for the future. Keep a lookout :)

  • avatarBlack Barney

    I found Samurai thematic in the sense that I wanted to run a katana through my stomach after playing

  • avatarKingdaddy

    Um, unless you had arms like an orangutan, you wouldn't use a katana to commit seppuku. The guy who cuts off your head might, but you'd be using a wakizashi or a tanto, with a much shorter blade.

  • avatarSagrilarus

    Ladies and Gentlemen, we are now officially off-topic.

    S.

  • avatarMattDP
    Quote:
    Ladies and Gentlemen, we are now officially off-topic.

    Huh, who'd eat a topic anyway. I mean, hazelnuts in a chocolate bar? What the fuck is that all about. I'd rather have a snickers.

  • avatarjeb

    Oh MattDP, your European candy bars are hilarious. Put another kipper on the barbie or whatever the hell you people do.

  • dallen

    Never truly hated a game until Castle Ravenloft came along. Goes for it's fanboyz as well. If ever a game was shat out onto this hobby with it's publisher's fingers crossed that's worse than CR, i've been lucky enough to avoid it. hate, Hate, HATE!!!

    Actually, starting to hate this whole "co-op" trend in gaming in general...

    Feels good to get that off my chest. Thanks.

  • avatarSuperflyTNT

    Cue Loter Assault Reel...

  • avatarMattDP
    Quote:
    Oh MattDP, your European candy bars are hilarious. Put another kipper on the barbie or whatever the hell you people do.

    Wow. I knew it wasn't very funny, but I had no idea it was actually offensive.

    Quote:

    Never truly hated a game until Castle Ravenloft came along.... Actually, starting to hate this whole "co-op" trend in gaming in general...

    Yeah the whole co-op trend sucks. So it's a bit of a shame you picked one of the few worth playing to hate on :)

  • avatarjeb  - Oh shit

    Not meant as offensive! More as what-the-hell-are-you-talking-about? We don't have Topic bars here in the Greatest Country That Ever Existed Forever And Don't You Forget It Here Have Some Hamburgers and War.

  • avatarThirstyMan

    Marathon bar NOT Snickers. Those marketing assholes renamed the bar because 'we're all American now'.

    Fuck them and their marketing, I bought Marathon bars when I was a kid and I want to fucking buy them now...bollocks to marketing.

  • avatarShellhead  - re:
    Kingdaddy wrote:
    Um, unless you had arms like an orangutan, you wouldn't use a katana to commit seppuku. The guy who cuts off your head might, but you'd be using a wakizashi or a tanto, with a much shorter blade.

    You would probably use the wakizashi, also known as "the guardian of honor" for usage in seppuku.

  • avatarMattDP
    Quote:
    Not meant as offensive! More as what-the-hell-are-you-talking-about?

    Ah, okay. Cultural assumptions. I just assumed you had topic bars in the states and were taking the piss.

    (I feel bad about saying this, seeing as I like to think of myself as a bit of a gourmet, but I have a real soft spot for that whole Hersheys peanut-and-chocolate thing even though most Europeans look aghast on US chocolate as being unworthy of feeding to their pets)

  • avatarRliyen
    Quote:

    Kingdaddy wrote:
    Um, unless you had arms like an orangutan, you wouldn't use a katana to commit seppuku. The guy who cuts off your head might, but you'd be using a wakizashi or a tanto, with a much shorter blade.

    Shellhead wrote:
    You would probably use the wakizashi, also known as "the guardian of honor" for usage in seppuku.

    Yep. The shorter of the blades was used for seppuku and taking enemy heads. The tanto was used by females of the Buke class, they'd slit their own throats with it. They would also bind their legs prior to doing so as to not leave their body in an unflattering position.

  • avatarInfinityMax

    Of the games you reviewed, I have only played Zombies!! and Risk: Lord of the Rings. And having seen your analysis of those games, I am inclined to avoid the rest of your list like the plague, because my opinion on both games is shockingly identical to yours. Risk LOTR is a train wreck in the Himalayas that causes an avalanche into a tsunami. And Zombies!! is just dreadful.

    So good job, and I will be avoiding the rest of this list as well.

  • avatarNotahandle

    MattDP wrote: "Huh, who'd eat a topic anyway. I mean, hazelnuts in a chocolate bar? What the fuck is that all about. I'd rather have a snickers."
    You get multiple snickers every time someone reads your articles. :)

    jeb wrote: "We don't have Topic bars here in the Greatest Country That Ever Existed Forever"
    Oxymoron!

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