Articles Reviews Barnestorming #98- Lords of Waterdeep in Review, Astron, Dark Crystal
 

Barnestorming #98- Lords of Waterdeep in Review, Astron, Dark Crystal Barnestorming #98- Lords of Waterdeep in Review, Astron, Dark Crystal Hot

Barnestorming #98- Lords of Waterdeep in Review, Astron, Dark Crystal

D&D makes its saving throw against Cube Confusion

On the Table


Lords of Waterdeep is a great Eurogame for people who hate Eurogames. It’s toothy, fun, and easy to play. Unlike many cube-pushers, this one doesn’t bother with convoluted scoring and it’s definitely not the kind of passive-aggressive experience many worker placement games are. The D&D setting is negligible at best, and it’s a game made up of parts of other games but it’s still a solid, entertaining title with just enough depth and process. It’s also a great departure from the genres typically associted with D&D. In short, WotC made a good Eurogame and didn’t embarrass themselves or the IP with it. Review at Gameshark. I’ll send someone a free D&D book (“Players Option: Heroes of the Elemental Chaos”) to the person who can identify one of the two lines written completely by Bill Abner in this review. That high-touch editing rascal. I’d be a shambles without him, though.

Looks like Destined Hero is next on the block, Victory Point Games’ 8-bit style two player card game. Should be cool.

Oh, I've also got an article at Worthpoint about Astron. I'll intentionally forget the link and let Sag post it in the thread. Gives him something to do, makes him feel important.

On the Consoles

Mass Effect 3 ended. It was good. Don’t believe the internet.

Ninja Gaiden 3 was terrible, I reviewed it. Regret ever playing it. The only good thing to come out of it is that it got me to pick up a used copy of Ninja Gaiden Sigma, which is still one of the best action games ever made.

I’m slipping mostly back to fighting games, it seems. I picked up King of Fighters XIII since I’ve never played a KoF game and the only experience I really have with SNK fighters is a couple of the old Fatal Fury titles. KoF13 is pretty great- it feels completely different than SF or Tekken. It’s obviously lower budget and somewhat more old fashioned, but techniques are compelling and the three-on-three format is fun. Characters are pretty bland though, there’s not like an iconic figure like Guile, Skorpion, or Ivy among them.

I may actually get around to playing Ico this week. It’s looking good. I got past the opening cinematic, which is a first.

On IOS

Liked King of Fighters on console, so I got King of Fighters-I since it’s on sale for $3. It’s great- I think it’s better than the IOS Street Fighter. Good controls, decent challenge level…and it looks just about exactly like the console game for better or worse.

I fell for yet another retro-styled adventure platformer- Swordigo, by the folks that did Soosiz. And like every one I buy, I played it for about 30 minutes and will likely never touch it again.

On the Screen

I can’t stop watching The Dark Crystal. What an amazing movie, they DEFINITELY don’t make ‘em like that anymore. It’s pure 1980s fantasy at its very best.

I remember seeing it in the theater when I was like seven and it just blew me away. It was so dark and mysterious…kind of frightening but also compelling. I remember being really scared for some reason at the part where the Skeksis strip the Chamberlain of his garments .

The puppetry is just incredible, I still think that at a technical level it’s the best thing that Jim Henson ever did in a career full of best things. But really, the star of the show is Brian Froud’s production design which is just stunning. I love his work in general (and I actually have a Froud tattoo), but he never did anything better than this movie.

River wasn’t really interested in it though. All he wants to watch is The Iron Giant, which I am about ready to never watch again.

On Spotify

Well, I guess I’ve become an old music snob. I’ve spent the last week listening to old music snob music. All that “adult” new wave.

I had never really listened to much Nick Lowe outside of the big singles (“And So it Goes”, “Cruel to be Kind”, “Breaking Glass”) but I’ve been totally into “Jesus of Cool”, the album those songs come from. And I’ve been digging back into the Elvis Costello and the Attractions, listening to early Squeeze (particularly “Argy Bargy”), and even some Joe Jackson.

I saw Joe Jackson a couple of years ago at a friend’s behest. I normally wouldn’t have gone to see him, I don’t think, but my buddy had no one to go and he offered to pay. It was actually a rather amazing show. He opened with this really grim, dark piano-only version of “Steppin’ Out” that was actually better than the record version, even without that insistent, killer synth riff. His take on “Got the Time” was more energetic and punk rock than anything I saw The Exploited do live the very next week.

Oddly, listening to Joe Jackson makes me think of going to the dentist when I was a kid.

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Comments (56)
  • avatarSagrilarus
    Quote:
    Oh, I've also got an article at Worthpoint about Astron. I'll intentionally forget the link and let Sag post it in the thread. Gives him something to do, makes him feel important.


    Why not alienate one of your three readers on Worthpoint. It's not like you're getting paid to write it.

    S.

  • avatarscissors

    Is it the sentence 'a Eurogame for people who dont like eurogames' ?

    Nic review - I am looking forward to trying this.

  • avatardragonstout
    Quote:
    Adventurers come in four different classes: cleric, wizard, rogue, and fighter (each represented by variously colored wooden cubes)

    lol

    Astron's prices must have significantly dropped since you were bidding on it as described in the article. I do regret not bidding higher on some Astron auctions, but a couple months ago I remember seeing them go for reasonable prices. Looking on eBay, it looks like an Astron just missing a couple of the spaceships went for $30 within the last month.

    But way to make the prices fucking skyrocket with your article!

    Just for that, no Worthpoint link. ;-)

    The earliest nightmares I can remember were from Dark Crystal. I wish I could see the non-English version Henson was planning.

  • avatarSevej

    If I have no prior experience with worker placement games and I want only one of them in my collection, how would Lords of Waterdeep stand against Agricola?

  • avatarhappyjosiah

    Everyone over at TOS is raving about Lords of Waterdeep. I thought I'd find some comments more to my sensibilities here, but I guess not. It was really a pretty boring game. The theme is totally non-existent and every mechanic in it has been done to death. Agricola is tons better.

  • avatarJackwraith

    I keep avoiding Lords of Waterdeep because I'm really disinterested in mechanical Euros with optional thematics and I was a huge Forgotten Realms fan way back in the day, so it's like insult to injury with this one. But there are the intrigue cards that at least force you to directly interact with others and everyone has been raving about it...

  • avatarskrebs

    "Lords of Waterdeep is a dyed-in-the-wool, cube-pushing Eurogame with nary a D20 in sight."

    "But where it gets hairy is when Intrigue cards are played, some of which can have negative effects on your plans by removing adventurers from your tavern. "

    "Nary" and "hairy" sound like Bill words.

  • avatarSevej  - re:
    happyjosiah wrote:
    ...every mechanic in it has been done to death. Agricola is tons better.

    I'm curious about this because my first Euro was Cuba, which is also very derivative, yet my group finds it a blast. We pretty much started with clean slate, with 0 experience in Euros.

    So I'm never worried about overused mechanic, or a game which is a melting pot of mechanics.

    I suppose I will like Rex too.

  • avatarscissors

    'It does what it does.... without any guff.'

  • avatarmetalface13
    Quote:
    I remember being really scared for some reason at the part where the Skeksis strip the Chamberlain of his garments .

    Me too! I think I thought they were tearing him limb from limb. Or just terrified of public nudity.

  • avatarSuperflyTNT

    Lords is awesome because you shred other people. It's the direct fuckery that makes it better than almost every Euro I've ever played. I'd still play 'gric before this because I really like the farm theme, and the theme is completely integral to that game whereas, as I said, this game would've been better implemented as a cold war spy game.

    Avery introduced me to Astron. At some point I'm going to have to build him a proper mahogany replacement box....that game is way cool.

  • avatarBlack Barney

    you don't like Iron Giant? What a fun movie. Yeah, Dark Crystal is incredible. I can't believe the part that freaked you out the most was when Chamberlain loses his garments (remember how much he screams during it? lol). As a kid, i was TERRIFIED when they put that little innocent kid-thing in the light of the dark crystal to turn him into a zombie and then the skeski drinks the liquid that it produces? Man, that scared me. As a kid it's kinda scary to think about kids being harvested for beverage (Killer Klowns from Outer Space scared me for this same reason too)

  • avatarSan Il Defanso

    Dark Crystal is NOT a good movie. It gets points for trying, but that doesn't actually make it decent. It has way too much setup, for one thing. The entire first 15 minutes are just spent in exposition, and that's a lousy way to get a movie going. And geez, everything is so desperately serious. I really love Jim Henson's work, and the puppets are remarkable, but it's just too portentous and overwrought for me to like. I'm much more of a Labyrinth kind of guy.

    I would also freely admit that it's because I didn't see the movie until just a couple years ago. Sometimes movies have to be watched by a certain point in life, and the Dark Crystal could be one of them. I feel that way about Goonies too.

    I really want to try Lords of Waterdeep.

  • avatarword_virus

    Dark Crystal + The Secret of NIMH were two movies that fucked me up for life.

  • avatarThirstyMan

    If you like Nick Lowe, perhaps I can point you to Brinsley Schwarz, a percursor of Stiff Records and, of course, Nick Lowe's stable mate, Dave Edmunds.

    Many of this band were pulled into Graham Parker and The Rumour in the mid 70's. Graham Parker is probably better known in the US than the UK these days but I went to see him in 1979 and his band KICKED ASS.

  • avatarSuperflyTNT

    Nate, you really are dead to me. It's one thing to say that the Dark Crystal is bad, but to say Goonies is bad? Bollocks. Just for that I'm pulling the spellcheck card: Pretentious.

    Some dickhead on ToS is trying to make a name for himself and did a Lords of Waterdeep review. Calls himself a "brutal reviewer". What a clown. Says that the game is broken because of the "6 points for making buildings" lord. What a cunt. You can tell that he's never actually played the game.

    This is why we need Barnes: Some fucking sanity.

  • avatarMattLoter

    HOW THE FUCK CAN YOU NOT LOVE GOONIES?!?!?!

  • avatarSan Il Defanso

    I'm really not trying to be pretentious! I'm just saying I saw the movie too late in life to really appreciate it. For best results, it really needed to be seen at about age 10. I didn't see it until I was like 18. I am to be pitied, not scorned.

  • avatarflim_flam

    "Who doesn't want to love de Goonies!!"
    http://reason.com/assets/mc/_ATTIC/Image/ngillespie/seinfeldribbon.jpg

  • avatarBullwinkle  - re:
    San Il Defanso wrote:
    I'm really not trying to be pretentious! I'm just saying I saw the movie too late in life to really appreciate it. For best results, it really needed to be seen at about age 10.


    Don't apologize, you're absolutely right. If you didn't see it early, Goonies is painfully unwatchable.

  • avatarMichael Barnes

    So far, the guesses as to Bill Abner's heavy-handed edit have been wrong.

    If I have no prior experience with worker placement games and I want only one of them in my collection, how would Lords of Waterdeep stand against Agricola?

    Good question, Sevej. Agricola is more complex. There's more to do, more options, and it's a much more intricate design. Waterdeep is extremely straightforward. You get cubes to satisfy requirements on cards. Worker placement, as a mechanic, is really just a way to corral player choices into a couple of specific actions and to create a kind of passive conflict, wherein actions typically can't be used by more than one player in a given cycle.

    If you like D&D, Waterdeep is probably the better pick all around in this case. If you don't mind the farming theme and want something heavier (and longer), then Agricola might suit you.

    Everyone over at TOS is raving about Lords of Waterdeep. I thought I'd find some comments more to my sensibilities here, but I guess not. It was really a pretty boring game. The theme is totally non-existent and every mechanic in it has been done to death. Agricola is tons better.

    I got a message from Bill Abner last night- he totally hated it. So it's not universally loved. And frankly, complaints of it being themeless and redundant are valid. But I still think it's fun, and the fact that it's easy to play and doesn't defy you to like it with a bunch of esoteric crap or solitaire puzzle mechanics are definite pluses.

    I keep avoiding Lords of Waterdeep because I'm really disinterested in mechanical Euros

    But it's almost anti-mechanical. You put a man down, it does something. You try to get the right color cubes to match up with your quest cards. That's about it. The mechanics that are there are very understated. I had a table of noobs playing it under five minutes sunday night. Granted, they had played other worker placement games so some of it was familiar, but the rules are really short.

    Pete is correct- Agricola's theme is far more integrated into the mechanics. Believe it or not. But there again, that's really a different class of game.

  • avatarSuperflyTNT

    Don't encourage the boy.

    Mike-
    Imagine this: The game was set in Berlin, Circa 1950. The Russians, Americans, French, British, and the remnants of the Nazi party all vie for control of the city. East and West. Buildings are safehouses that you can build, each of which provides different 'resources'. As such, the resources are "intel", "weapons", "false papers", and "players (people)".

    Make the whole thing a dark spycrafty affair where the 11 "lords" are spymasters; Sidney Souers and the like. Each with different goals.

    Tell me that wouldn't have been a cooler game theme for the mechanics involved.

  • avatarMichael Barnes

    Iron Giant is fine. It's cute. I think it's HUGELY overrated, I think the reason it has such stature is that it came out at a time when Miyazaki films weren't widely available in the US and Pixar was still mostly Toy Story and Bug's Life. It was a very rare, sophisticated and adult-compatible animated film. But that doesn't make it great. A lot of it is really pretty boring, the 1950s/Cold War thing is underplayed and really irrelevant, and the "Superman" thing is maudlin and corny.

    The robot is great though, no doubt about that.

    And it does speak to Brad Bird's talent in bringing together adult material and kid-friendly stuff-but not nearly as good as the Incredibles.

    I think The Dark Crystal holds up far better than most 80s fantasy...I mean, compare it to Beastmaster, Krull, even Conan. It feels timeless, alien, and well, fantastic.

    I like the slow open- it lets you drink in the atmosphere of it. It's a totally alien world that isn't really tied to the Tolkien/Howard model so there's almost a kind of acclimation period. I do wish that Henson's idea of doing it all in a made-up language had been followed, it would have sold the "otherness" of it even more.

    If I ever get a pug, I'm going to name her Augra.

    The Goonies, sadly, sucks. It's just not very good. It's _endearing_, but that's really all. The story is dumb, the characters range from bland to irritating, and there's a shrill tone to the entire thing. I actually didn't really like it much when I was a kid either...I felt like I was _supposed_ to like it, but I didn't.

    Now, Goonies II on NES..._that_ was great.

  • avatarbill abner

    To recap:

    Guff, Hairy, Nary and the lack of XBLA game reviews on Gameshark are not my doing.

    That would be:

    Barnes, Barnes, Barnes, Mad Catz.

  • avatardragonstout  - re:
    SuperflyTNT wrote:
    Lords is awesome because you shred other people. It's the direct fuckery that makes it better than almost every Euro I've ever played.

    But there are PLENTY of Euros with direct fuckery. Most Euros before 2001. Tigris & Euphrates? El Grande? Adel Verpflichtet? Taj Mahal? Colossal Arena? Intrigue, for chrissakes?

  • avatarubarose

    The direct screwage in Waterdeep has been over stated. It amounts to make someone discard a cube. You can call it killing an adventurer, but it doesn't make it more exciting. I think it's a nice change from Ticket to Ride, if you play games like that with family or casual gamers. The designer calls it an action drafting game, rather than a worker placement game, and it does have that feel of drafting cards - it moves very quickly and there are typically more than one actions that do close to the same thing, like having duplicate cards, so the frustration is low.

  • avatarbfkiller
    San Il Defanso wrote:
    ... portentous...
    SuperflyTNT wrote:
    I'm pulling the spellcheck card: Pretentious.

    Portentous: Done in a pompously or overly solemn manner.

  • avatardoubtofbuddha

    Yeah, Caylus has more direct screwage then Lords of Waterdeep. The killing of cubes is a global effect, which does effect other players but effects everyone equally which doesn't scream in your face to me. You can steal each others cubes and force people to partake of mandatory quests, but those are relatively minor and very deck dependent. It is very easy to go through an entire game without having them happen.

    Really if you want a more recent worker placement game that gives you a real opportunity to mess with people The Manhattan Project is a much better choice unless you want something that is really light.

  • avatarSuperflyTNT  - re: re:
    dragonstout wrote:
    SuperflyTNT wrote:
    Lords is awesome because you shred other people. It's the direct fuckery that makes it better than almost every Euro I've ever played.


    But there are PLENTY of Euros with direct fuckery. Most Euros before 2001. Tigris & Euphrates? El Grande? Adel Verpflichtet? Taj Mahal? Colossal Arena? Intrigue, for chrissakes?

    I like T&E. I like Colossal Arena (although not enough to buy it from you, ya lout) and El Grande is the shining city on the hill.

    But....

    When you look to Puerto Reeko or Tikal, it's just not there. For me. Although I will play Tikal, but won't ever play Reeko again.

    Here's how I treated El Grande:
    http://superflycircus.blogspot.com/2010/03/el-grande-conquer-spain-and- overthrow.html

    But, this is like 10 of a thousand shitty passive aggressive euros. So my point stands true.

  • avatarBlack Barney

    Slingshot in Goonies II was teh br0ken. I loved that game. So insanely hard and fun.

    I have never tried rewatching Goonies as an adult. I have too many great memories of that movie and do not wish to ruinsd it like I did with Tron and Last Starfighter.

    I do want to rewatch Secret of Nihm tho. I wonder if Nickodemus will still make me cry. That scene is so powerful and brutal.

    and yay for Dom deluise. oooooo! THE SPARKLY!

  • avatarSuperflyTNT  - re:
    doubtofbuddha wrote:
    Yeah, Caylus has more direct screwage then Lords of Waterdeep. The killing of cubes is a global effect, which does effect other players but effects everyone equally which doesn't scream in your face to me. You can steal each others cubes and force people to partake of mandatory quests, but those are relatively minor and very deck dependent. It is very easy to go through an entire game without having them happen.

    Really if you want a more recent worker placement game that gives you a real opportunity to mess with people The Manhattan Project is a much better choice unless you want something that is really light.


    All but one of the times I've played this it's been really contentious. Dropping several back-to-back mandatory quests on someone who recently emerged as a potential leader can really piss them off. Like cockpunch-level pissed off.

    We can only speak based on our own experiences, so maybe it's crowd dependent. I guess if you want to sit there solemnly and chat about the price of tea in India while playing, you could do that. Most of our plays are more like "You bastard! If you didn't drive me here I'd kick you in the sack!" kind of games.

  • avatarBearn

    Some of you are just NEVER going to get it about LoWD. It's not supposed to be some grand euro worker placement game. It's an ENTRY level euro for people who just don't really have the capacity to plan out Agricola from turn one.

    It has solid mechanics from numerous other games that work. You aren't screwed on turn one if something bad happens to you or you get ganged up on. Every space is meaningful and useful through a whole game and most important. You can play with 5 players and finish a game in an hour or less.

    You don't need to plan out turn seven on turn one in LoWD but you better be planning out your end game on turn one of Agricola or you are screwed. I know plenty of people that hate euros and worker placement games but ar emore than happy to play LoWD. If i have to give up a little complexity to get a game to the tabel that my friends enjoy so be it.

    In other news....Dissing Dark Crystal and Goonies? My daughter absolutely loves those movies and watching them as an adult again with her made me truly appreciate just how much fun and how good they really are. Compared to most of the trash they call movies today i'll take the 80's movies.

  • avatarSuperflyTNT

    Yeah, what he said. About everything.

    Nimh, Goonies, Dark Crystal....all classics. With 2 young kids I get to re-watch that shit. Maybe half the fun is watching my 10'ers eyes bug out watching Tron or watching my 3'er marvel at the magic necklace lifting the Brisby's house. It's the shit kids love to see and parents love to watch their kids watch.

  • avatarShapeshifter

    Gosh, The Dark Crystal. Actually, that movie must have been one of my earliest intense memories of going to the movies. It was one of the few movies I went to see with my father as a kid, rather than my mother who regulary went to see obscure east-european fairytale-movies with me, some of them disturbingly dark and unsettling. At least for a kid.

    My father is a big cinephile, with a very specific taste. I remember him taking me to see Ingmar Bergman's "Fanny Och Alexander" when I was 8. It's a miracle I am a stable person as an adult. Seriously...
    I also remember a walk home after havind seen E.T. and his ideas about how corny that movie was in all the wrong ways.

    But the Dark Crystal...that was something completely different.
    I remember sitting in a baroque balcony in that dark large hall and watching that marvelous opening scene with Jen running in the storm through his home village with the feeling of impending doom.
    At that time this was FX-wise like nothing that was done before. Puppetery of an incredibly level of masterful perfection. When we walked out of the cinema we were both equally enchanted by what we had seen. It was certainly one of the key movies that infected me with the movie buff bug.

    Lords of Waterdeep...its one of those games I'm on the fence about. I almost feel asleep watching a video review a few days ago, looking incredibly dry and abstract. But the fact so many people rave about it who's taste I trust makes me want to give it at least 1 play.
    Too bad the board looks a so tastefully dull, but I can see were the backstabbing becomes one of the highlights of the game, and I like the setting.

    Funnily enough I had both Squeeze and Joe Jackson on my Ipod this week, being in an 80's sort of mood. There's also some other stuff that I don't want to confess, but anyone who was conscious in those years can imagine what I'm talking about. Ah well, bittersweet nostalgia...

  • avatarChapel

    Dark Crystal, Beastmaster, Conan, Goonies, Ninja Stars and Nun-chucks. If you don't get it, then you just missed out on the greatest decade ever. And I feel sorry for your sad existence!!!


    Excuse me while I go pound out a few quarters in Galaga.

  • avatarSuperflyTNT

    Ah, Galaga. I didn't realize she was still dancing at the Yellow Rose...

  • avatarMichael Barnes

    There's also some other stuff that I don't want to confess

    Stacey Q? It's cool man, I was listening to "Two of Hearts" the other day.

    (watches music snob credibility swirl down the toilet bowl)

    Some of you are just NEVER going to get it about LoWD. It's not supposed to be some grand euro worker placement game. It's an ENTRY level euro for people who just don't really have the capacity to plan out Agricola from turn one.

    This was the exact same problem with the D&D Adventure System games, wasn't it?

    Like those, this is a very mainstream, accessible version of a hobby game. It cuts through a lot of BS and presents with a simple, easy to play game with hobby concepts.

  • avatarShellhead  - re:
    SuperflyTNT wrote:
    Don't encourage the boy.

    Mike-
    Imagine this: The game was set in Berlin, Circa 1950. The Russians, Americans, French, British, and the remnants of the Nazi party all vie for control of the city. East and West. Buildings are safehouses that you can build, each of which provides different 'resources'. As such, the resources are "intel", "weapons", "false papers", and "players (people)".

    Make the whole thing a dark spycrafty affair where the 11 "lords" are spymasters; Sidney Souers and the like. Each with different goals.

    Tell me that wouldn't have been a cooler game theme for the mechanics involved.

    Call that game Sprechenhaltestelle! More or less:

    http://spies-r-us.org/sprechen/sprech/sprechcover2.gif

  • avatarShellhead

    I won't go near Waterdeep. It infuriates me when EuroSnob designers wed eurogame mechanics to ameritrash themes and settings. Especially the Stronghold boardgame.

  • avatarscissors

    "It's not uncommon to barter..." or "i appreciate that directness"!

    How many shots at this we get ;)

  • avatarSpace Ghost

    Sometime, I would love to hear the explanation of the theme in Agricola. It is like someone made a farming game about what they thought farming was like, rather than someone who knew what farming is like.

  • avatarSuperflyTNT

    Shellhead: Peter Lee is hardly a "Eurosnob". But, they did wed Euromechs to Ameritrash theme. And yes, Stronghold was the definition of a failboat.

    Ghost: It's not a farming game. It's a survival game where you just happen to be a serf. You try to survive, raise a family, and technichally there's death. You starve your kids, they die. So it's more of a small-scale civ builder but the scope of the civ is your little plot of land. I guess.

    I now have an IPhone. Blood will be spilt...I've already got Uniwar.

  • avatarmoofrank  - 50's games

    Really? There are a ton of REALLY impressive games that came out of Parker Brothers and Waddington's in the 50's. Tastes were a little different, so game length wasn't as much of a problem.

  • avatarUniversalHead

    I've seen Joe Jackson live about 6 or 7 times now - just about every time he's been to Australia - and he is without doubt one of the best live performers in the world. Yep, it's a big call, but every show has been completely unique, utterly memorable, and he and his band of the time have put every ounce of themselves into the performance and the music. A shame that he's been somewhat forgotten these days, but hopefully he's doing what he likes best and living OK off his old royalties and the occasional gig. He is the Man.

  • avatarMichael Barnes

    Really? There are a ton of REALLY impressive games that came out of Parker Brothers and Waddington's in the 50's. Tastes were a little different, so game length wasn't as much of a problem.

    Sure...but you've played them all- I haven't!

    Of what I've seen, Astron is by far the best...and most memorable.

    Mediterrane, that one was really great too. But isn't that 60's?

  • avatardragonstout

    I would love to hear Branham talk about all the great 50s games.

  • avatarubarose
    Quote:
    those, this is a very mainstream, accessible version of a hobby game. It cuts through a lot of BS and presents with a simple, easy to play game with hobby concepts.

    I think that this about sums it up. It's interesting to see this happen. Wondering how long before it shows up in ios or facebook form and reaches an even broader audience.

  • avatarBearn

    My personal feeling Barnes on the D&D adventure system was that it was to simplistic. The production quality excluding the minis was also rather bad as well. Their "automated" system to move the monsters was exteremely predictable and left a lot up to the players to add some difficulty or even some intelligence to the monsters. Lee didn't fall into that same trap in this game and it shows.

  • avatarwkover  - re:
    Bearn wrote:
    My personal feeling Barnes on the D&D adventure system was that it was to simplistic. The production quality excluding the minis was also rather bad as well. Their "automated" system to move the monsters was exteremely predictable and left a lot up to the players to add some difficulty or even some intelligence to the monsters.

    Unfortunately, the complete non-automation of monsters is one of the problems with Doom and Descent. And possibly Space Hulk. In those games, the bad guys are TOO smart. Because the monsters are player-controlled, they always gang up on the weakest player, they always duck back around corners after shooting ranged weapons, etc.

    What we need is a combination of both - a system where monsters are partly automated and partly overlord-driven. Hey, I'd even settle for a 1d6 die roll. If engaged, a monsters stays put and remains in combat. If not: on a 1, the monster cowers; on a 2, the monster moves toward (and attacks) the closest hero; on a 3, the monster moves towards (and attacks) the strongest hero; on a 4-6, the overlord controls the monster.

    That would be tedious, though; so there's got to be a better mixed-pedigree system.

  • avatarBearn

    Descent is a pretty descent system but it can take a large amoutn of time to get a combat completed. SH isn't to bad with its automation but the board really lends to helping the NPC stealers get into position. For me its Claustrophobia when i want a good dungeon crawl.

  • avatarSuperflyTNT

    I'm guessing you're talking about Space Hulk: The Card Game or whatever (Death Angel?)

    It's comparing apples and oranges. What is a better DM-less dungeon crawl? And "Gears of War" isn't it.

  • avatarHatchling

    There aren't any sentences in that review that seem superfluous or out of place. I have no clue which one's were from Bill, but I'll guess this is one:

    Quote:
    This also means that Lords of Waterdeep comes across as a Eurogame for people that don’t like Eurogames.

    And/or maybe this (simply because it seems to be a clarification that may have been added later):

    Quote:
    Literally. In fact you need to pay attention not only to your own quests but to everyone else’s because quests are placed face up on the table for all to see.
  • avatarbill abner

    One of those two is correct. Hatchling wins the door prize. (What is the door prize?)

  • avatarHatchling

    woohoo!

    I don't play D&D, so please give the book to the FATcast for a raffle prize or something. Or maybe just to use themselves.

  • avatarColumbob

    I'm guessing this is the second line added:

    Quote:
    wherein players drop a ‘meeple’ down on a building to select an action,

    I don't think I've ever heard Michael use the term 'meeple' before (which I pretty much loathe, btw).

  • avatarbill abner

    That wasn't me. Mike loves his meeples.

    I added the line about paying attention to other people's quests, as Hatchling guessed, and a line about player scaling (near the end). I know. I'm a monster.

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