The two games that killed Euros for me Hot

Hmmmm..... Oasis and Niagara. That's right, they ARE both Euros. I wonder, though, if we probe deeply enough...will we find any other strong connections betwixt these games? It's on the tip of my brain...I know there's SOMETHING! Gyaah, it's just too hard.

Uh...water?

I've thought about this for a few days and I think I should rephrase this as the games that killed LIGHT Euros for me. I used to be okay with Light Euros, they didn't take much investment, I could get anyone to play them.

But eventually you play enough of them and they're samey (LOOK! Auctions! Abstract board placement! Action Points!). On top of that, a general sense of pointlessness just settles in.

I tried Kingsburg, and it's a little better but still pretty bleh. Guess I'd have to look deeper, but if I'm going to learn more invovled mechanics, the game had better have a point to them.

Well, you are certainly getting closer, because the connection I was thinking of is ALL WET. Oh wait, this isn't BGG, I'm free to say what I think on this topic, right? Maybe you just don't like Alan Moon's namby pamby approach to game design? I'm sure if you asked him, he'd tell you exactly why both of those games leave the taste of donkey feces in your mouth after repeated play. Let me know what he says!

Crankably, I'm still missing the connection. Alan Mood didn't design Niagara.

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Man Ken, this sounds like you are saying, "I had a couple subpar dishes of Indian food last night, I'll never eat Indian again." There are a ton of Euros I don't like, but then again, there are a ton of 'em that I do. Those games that I enjoy playing but dislike one element, I create house rules for. If you don't like the winning conditions, change 'em.

Nah man, I think what happened is I reached my limit for "Light Euros". I've played plenty of them. I really like a lot of them. I just played Race for the Galaxy today and I think it's a pretty good game.

But those were like a tipping point for me--like "Enough." I've picked up my last game where I'm doing completely abstract things to earn some VPs. It was kind of like going to a buffet...you like chicken okay...but you eat two pieces too many, you end up sick as a dog, and suddenly you're not interested in chicken for awhile.

I may try some of the "heavier" Euros to see if that helps, like Power Grid, Imperial, or a couple of others I've got my eyes on. I'm worried though that those will just be jumping through more hoops to get the same abstracted and somewhat pointless results.

If we ever play Niagara again--and this was a game that pretty much everyone that's played it has indicated they're not crazy about--the four-gem win condition is out.

sisterary, Alan Moon doesn't have to design a game for it to suck--but all games that suck should be credited to Alan Moon. It's possible that this methodology will work for other designers based upon the individual--you yourself might very well wish to choose Thomas Liesching as your ultimate whipping boy. For me it will always be Alan Moon. (All of this is much easier than saying, "I was thinking of Diamante, which I played at BSW around the same time as I played Niagara.")

Isn't Niagara supposed to be children's game? I've never played, but a few years back at WBC I was shopping at the RGG booth for a game for 6-8 year olds, and Jay recommended Niagara, Capt'n Clever and Dawn Under.

I don't know...I thought "Spiel de Jahres" was meant to be a game that would pretty much appeal to everybody. They do seem obsessed with giving it to what seem to be children's games in recent years.

I could also say that Niagara was the game that burnt me on the whole SdJ thing, too. They used to give it to games like Torres and Ticket to Ride, classic stuff that was worth playing. The rate they're going I won't be surprised if "Power Puff Girls Super Gem Matching Game" is the winner in another year or two.

I think bad games should be credited to Reiner. I don't think he minds - he makes so many bad games, it obviously doesn't cost him sleep to have a couple more out there. Anyone ever play Atlanteon? Or the Lord of the Rings game for kids? How about that late-term abortion, Penguin?

Fine, credit them to Reiner if it makes you happy. I'm sticking with the guy who brought me 47 versions of the same 8 games. Oh wait, that could apply to Reiner too. I really hated Spy. From now on, Spy is an Alan Moon game.

Besmirching someone's body of work because they release similar games using similar mechanics is silly. All designers have a recognizable style(with the exception of Alex Randolf, Karl Heinz Schmiel and perhaps Sid Sackson) . Not liking their style is certainly valid, but blanket statements like that without taking into account designers sounds ignorant.

The nice thing is that if you know you don't like Alan Mood or Reiner Knizia you will save a lot of money when the new releases come around. It sure saves me a bundle.