Leave those kids alone Hot

I've seen those studies, and I'm surrounded by those parents in my neighborhood (and office for that matter). Between the hyperorganized lives and the ridiculous overprotectiveness, I always wonder how the hell these kids are ever going to survive in life. [Then again, judging by the 20-25-year old interns and new hires I've met over the last few years, I'm not entirely convinced that they can.]

I agree with ya Uba, though I think it would be even better if more parents put the boardgames down altogether and said just said "go outside."

My wife's role is to prepare college graduates for their first job. In the process she has to deal with their parents, they are termed "helicopter parents" because they just hover over their kids. What really pisses parents off is the new FIRPA (sp?) laws which state that the school can't send a student's grades to the parents, regardless of who is paying for the education.

When she used to be a corporate recruiter, she even had a parent show up at the interview with their kid, and to top it off, the parent was surprised when they had to wait outside. Sometimes, I don't know what the hell is wrong with people.

Space Ghost wrote:

WTF? I agree with the sentiment of your blog Uba and also the comments from Dogmatix and Space Ghost, but the remark about the FIRPA laws is a whole other story. I mean, what kind of cockamaime nonsense doesn't allow parents to see their children's grades?

This is a complex issue. In the UK at least the media constantly bombards parents with the messages that their children are not safe doing everyday activities and that they are responsible for their childrens' wellbeing in life. It seems patently obvious to me that there are plenty of parents who don't take much if any responsibility for their childrens' wellbeing but they're not the ones who hear the message. The people who hear the message are the parents who are already worried to distraction about how their kids are getting on. The result is that childcare seems to have become completely polarized - either you're actively involved in your kids life all the time, or you're hardly involved at all. Trying to walk between the lines risks public disapproval since everyone "knows" what's best when it comes to raising kids.

MattDP -- We have something similar in the US -- her name is Nancy Grace.

All parents now live in fear of two things -- their kids will be stolen and buried alive the moment they are out of earshot, and their kids will fall behind the neighbors' kids if they aren't fully enrolled in structured activity at all times. We have a running school nearby. It teaches kids how to run, sixty dollars a month. Drive there, watch your kid run, drive home. Parent can't leave -- kid will be buried alive.

This is my biggest issue with the "my three-year-old plays BattleLore" crowd. The kid would have a blast with the game if is wasn't for the doggone rules getting in the way.

Sag.

The other issue is that we disparage "Easy Mac" games. My kid likes Easy Mac. Her friends like Easy Mac. They also like that they can make it themselves. I keep a box of it on the lower shelf in the pantry next to the peanut butter, where the kids can reach it without a step stool. Now, I would never serve Easy Mac as my family's dinner. I wouldn't offer it to adults as a snack. However, hungery kids scavanging for after school snacks, or who want to make their own lunch are welcome to all the Easy Mac they want.

I think the same can be said for games. Uno, Life, Moose in the House, Guess Who, TransAmerica, Sleeping Queens, Blurt, All Wound Up, Mystery Date are "Easy Mac" games. I certainly wouldn't bring them to game club. I typically wouldn't even choose them to play as a family. But the kids like them and play them, so I keep them on the lower shelf of the Rec Room bookcase.

I have to confess, however, that I still don't know if my kid could figure out how to play a game all by herself, just by reading the rules. I don't know if I have every given her the opportunity to try.

Great post and commentary. As a new parent, I'm finding one of my biggest concerns is on how to not become a helicopter parent. I've seen them enough, as well as their spawn, to know that despite good intentions it really is counter-productive to the kid. My wife and I talk a lot about how we see our role as developing our child into a functional adult. It's one thing to make sure they are safe, it's another to keep them in a bubble.

I think Sag hits on a good point- even if kids are playing a game by the wrong rules, if they are having fun why not let them?

I can remember having a blast as a kid playing with my Dad's copy of Mechwar '77. The rules were your typical dense sim rules, but the counters looked cool (and even had burning tank counters for dead units) so I just played "Tank War" and made it up as I went along. I still have never played by the actual rules, and the game is long lost, but I got hours of entertainment from it. And my Dad taught me an important lesson with it- putting away the game so as not to lose any pieces.

The hardest part is allowing them to fall and to fail.

@Sag,

That Running School cracks me up. However, I am totally not surprised. My Spawn got "Recess Detention" for running on the play ground at recess. Yes, that is right. There is no running allowed at recess.

WTF is recess detention? Watching other kids play while you have to sit on a bench?

This thread is starting to confuse my feeble brain -- no running at recess? a running school? Probably no dodge ball anymore either.

My Dad (who isn't a gamer at all) bought me Squad Leader as a kid (I'd seen it in some magazine), and said he'd play it if I learned the rules. I'd like to do the same thing with my son when he's a bit older for some games he wants to try.

What you're looking for is "Free Range Children." Look them up. This is going to be a bone of contention with my wife in s few years. I grew up riding my bike all over town, taking the bus to Worcester on my own, etc. Without any prior approval, really. She grew up not knowing her neighbors' names.

That said, kids playing with the folks is still cool. I remember playing CRIBBAGE, TRIVIAL PURSUIT, YAHTZEE, CHESS, etc with my Dad very fondly.

Well, it's all a matter of balance I guess... I love playing boardgames with my older kid (almost 5yo), but I wouldn't want to make him feel it's an obligation although, well, right now he asks for a boardgame any time his younger brother is asleep :) Anyway, I'd rather have him playing boardgames with me than playing with videogames by himself (although he does like those too), and I'd rather have him playing any games than watching tv (we almost don't watch it with or without them). But, if the weather is not too bad, I'd rather have them both (he and his brother) outside. They're too young to be outside alone though...

Right now, his younger brother is too small (almost 2 years old) but when he's a bit older and can start playing games like Gulo Gulo, I'm going to try getting them to play without us adults. By that time, hopefully the older one can teach the younger one :) we'll see...

Anyway, I'm not too worried about the kid playing too many boardgames with us right now... and I do have good memories of playing card games and Parchis with my parents...
And I agree with Jeb, I grew up in a very small town, and we could basically walk or ride with the bike anywhere within the town, without our parent's supervision. We lived on the edge of the town, and had free access to a large woods area and some rocky hills where we could ride/play/climb/etc... all by ourselves. It was wonderful, and my memories from that time are some of the best in my life... I think when raising kids you have to remember what it was to be a kid. They need freedom and to learn from their actions and mistakes just as we did... It's both a learning experience for them as it is for us, because letting go when it's necessary is also hard for the parent, but better do it in small doses as the kid grows, than all at once when they grow up!

One thing that amazed me when I first became a parent was just how quickly a baby grows into a small child and then a child. From the attitudes of many parents I see around, it seems this is too fast for them and they don't even realize, so they treat their kids as if they were babies... and this goes on and on as they grow into adulthood... problem is, when someone is being treated as a baby by everyone close to them, that's how they'll behave!!

It almost sounds like if parents acted like my parents did, they would be up on some sort of charges. My mom pretty much gave me free reign (and enough rope to hang myself). She knew I'd be back when I had to be.

Ah well.

As for games with the grownups, it was fun on occasion but I wouldn't wnat to do it all the time.

Yes, Recess Dentention is sitting on a bench during recess.

No dodge ball. Not at recess. Not during gym. My kid doesn't know what dodge ball is. During gym all they do is run laps, jump rope and do exercises. I guess they are allowed to run during gym because they are under the supervision of a trained running professional. The P.E. teacher is big on trying to fight childhood obesity. There are also really strict rules about what food and drinks you can send to school - no junk food or deserts at all.

See Matt, in the U.S., parents don't have to take responsibility for their children's wellbeing. The schools do it for us.

I love to see my 4 year-old rummaging through the game closet to grab Max or Hey! That's My Fish! or something... She and her 6 year-old sister don't really play the games correctly when I'm not playing with them, but they make up their own "game" or story to go with the pieces, and I think that's cool. I bought the Lion King Adventure Game at a thrift shop for $1.50 and that has been one of the best game purchases I've made, because although the game as intended isn't great, they have played with the components over and over. It's about the theme and narrative and cool bits... I've got some future ATers, methinks.

I also grew up riding my bike all over town and being gone on my own all day at a young age, and I'll admit I can't imagine letting my girls do the same thing today. One thing that makes me paranoid, whether justified or not, was looking online at a sex offender database, and seeing how many of them are living in my town. Odds are, it's that information that feeds the paranoia... there were probably as many back in my day as a kid, but parents just didn't know as much about them.

That Sex Offender list you're looking at has been completely neutered (excuse the play on words please) by the vast list of crimes that now put people on it. Sexual Harassment lawsuits or even peeing in a public place can put you on that list, effectively providing cover for actual predators. Someone took a good idea and made it a point to remove any usefulness it might have provided.

Maryland is trying to get the offense listed with the name so that you can better judge the risk.

Sag.

Young Americans have become delicate and weak, thanks to these helicopter parents and their well-meaning bullshit.

When I was a kid, I lived on a long dead-end street in a nice middle-class suburb. There were 18 houses on our street and nearly everybody had kids. Unless the weather was terrible, the vast majority of kids would go outside and play every day, for hours. When it was light out, we rode our bikes and skateboards around, played four square in the street, and tag in the yards. After dark, we played hide-and-go-seek. The older kids played basketball almost constantly next door. Also, there were generally a half dozen dogs and a few cats running around loose, and the dogs tended to hang out with the kids.

If there was a big snow, we built snow forts and threw snowballs at each other, then grabbed our sleds and toboggans and hiked over to Suicide Hill. If it rained, we stayed inside and played boardgames or played with toys. It wasn't until I was 14 that I started playing D&D and spending more time indoors. And of course, most of the board games were family classics like Monopoly, Risk, Sorry and Aggravation. After I started playing D&D, we did start playing prehistoric AmeriTrash games, like Kung Fu 2100 and The Awful Green Things from Outer Space.

Today, too many American parents have been terrified by the news and browbeaten by their peers into grotesquely protective behavior. Their fat, pale, lazy kids sit indoors all day, watching cable, surfing the internet and playing console games. If there is any physical activity, it is confined to strictly organized recreational activities like Little League. These kids aren't turning out too great, judging by my younger co-workers. They lack independence and initiative, and seem to require a lot of guidance.

And maybe this has to do with the high cost of college these days, but some of our recent grads that we hire have zero work experience. When I was in college, it was still possible to earn your own way through college, though it meant a lot of work, especially during summer break. Now, college is so expensive, they just suck it up with the huge loans and then focus on the coursework until graduation. Makes for better grades, I guess, but clueless employees.

My five-year-old asked to play the "big" (Descent, TI3) fun games next to the kids games shelf, and I took them down and showed her all the bits and some of the cards. Then I told ther that to play, she first had to read the rules. She doesn't need to fully understand them, but she must be able to read them.

In Texas, the Sex Offender registry lists the crime and the age/gender of the victim, and I have only seen sexual assault and indency with a child listed as offenses. My wife and I were both surprised how many lived nearby, considering these are the ones who got caught. About half the victims are 16ish girls, a third 9 year old girls and the rest 4 year old girls with an occasional 9 or 13 year old boy. There are 7 listed for our elementary school district that have victimized 4 or 9 year olds.

Shellhead,

If neighborhoods like you describe were still plentiful, parents would allow their children more freedom.

Were I live the older kids aren't nearby playing basketball. They are either at an extracurricular activity at school (sports, band, cheerleading), or they are hiding in the playscape at the park a half block away drinking, or in the woods across the street doing drugs. A couple of months after the playscape was installed, a group of kids went to the park to play. A five year old tried to get into the playscape clubhouse, and got his nose broken when one of the drunk teens hiding there punched him in the face. We don't use the park much anymore.

So yeah, we keep our kids on a short leash around here. Hell, I don't even walk around here alone after dark.

Yikes Mr. Zir. That's scary. I totally freaked when I saw my neighbor, whose kid my kid played with all the time, on the list, until I realized that he was on there for knocking up the woman who was now his wife. I actually already knew that, because I used to tease his wife about how young she was. Anyway, all but two on our list are there for being over 18 and knocking up their underage girl friend.

Ubarose,

I realize that some neighborhoods are less safe than others. But even the upper middle class neighborhoods here in the Twin Cities are pretty quiet, because all the kids are inside most of the time. In fact, about the only time I ever see kids anymore is when I'm shopping, or when I drive past the bus stop in the morning. It's kind of spooky.

Shellhead,

That's just wrong. Those kids don't know how good they have it. The young kids around here want to be outside and wandering, but we have to be really strict with them about where they can be, and where they can go, and how often they have to check in with an adult.

Yeah, it's unreal.

My girlfriend and I live in an odd area that's like a secret small town hidden in the center of the Twin Cities. Lots of great old Victorian houses in fine condition, interspersed with more moderate houses from every decade after the Victorian period, plus a cute little main street right through the middle. We rent an apartment above one of the businesses along main street. The Saint Paul campus of the U is several blocks away, but it's primarily the campus for agriculture and biology majors, so it's pretty quiet.

Anyway, our immediate neighborhood is basically a ring of mansions and big houses surrounding an elementary school and a really nice park. Big gnarly trees, a small community center, a couple of tennis courts, a couple of basketball courts, a playground, and an area for ice-skating in the winter and baseball in the summer.

Despite being a natural magnet for kids, this park is mostly used by three groups: Little League baseball, helicopter parents with small children, and college students playing basketball. And sometimes the school kids go to the park under close supervision by teachers. That's it. Otherwise, no kids.

Wow, I'm really amazed by what I'm reading... It's such a shame... I guess we're lucky over here because I still see kids hanging out after school on the street, and the parks are mostly well kept, so I can go with my children and let them play with no worries... Now I don't live in the city, but in a small town near the mountains, and the biggest danger I see are crazy drivers that don't seem to know you're supposed to drive slowly in the small streets of the town, fortunately this only happens on the weekends when the town fills with city tourists...

Things were so much simpler in my youth....we only had to watch out for
an Indan Raid.

OD

Thankfully we have never had any such problem. Our district's high school is more than a couple of miles away. Whenever I take my kids to the playground near our house, half the time we are the only ones there and the other half there are only two or three other kids there.