Sex & Violence

Two people with wrestling avatars talk violence.

I find your idea of permanence as a possible reason intriguing.

I also agree about not appropriate in some settings. But what about those old GW photos posted? Are they inappropriate for kids or are they more in the Coyote v Roadrunner vein?

Remember that AD&D was associated with Satanism (if such a thing actually exists) for a period of time, and there was a cleansing of much of the art and content to make it a more accepted product. It then got purchased by a very big company with a very big reputation to maintain.

I'll be honest, both of those images look ham-fisted to me and gratuitous. It's not going to stop me from buying the product, but it isn't drawing me in at all either. It's a display of violence for violence's sake, another form a porn as far as I'm concerned and this one doesn't appeal to me.

As for nudity, the original AD&D books would fit firmly into the PG rating now, in spite of showing a little bit of above-the-waist nudity. The country's (U.S.) tolerance for nudity has GREATLY expanded since the 1970s.

I could see them being inappropriate, it depends on the child's personal development and relationship with both violence and separating reality from fiction. They have both cartoony and realistic aspects, it's hard to draw a line, but I would not say they're absolutely inappropriate.

Mr White...Limit yourself to just 10 games and your world view narrows!

Early on the use of sex and violence gets your product noticed. See CoolMiniOrNot or Early GW. The saying "Sex sells" holds true in any form.

But, if a company grows and becomes a brand the need for extremes to get your product noticed declines. What early on is an asset can become a liability.

Rockstar Games wants to push the envelope. Days of Wonder wants to be as family friendly as possible. The dude that brought us Cave Evil wants to portray things not previously portrayed in games. CoolMiniOrNot has a decapitated head flying across their cover as well as a second head exploding.

It all comes down to the brand be it Company Brand or Product Line that is looking to be established. Imagine what would happen if Days of Wonder were to suddenly release a gore filled and sex fueled game? Their brand and image would be shot to hell...That shaking isn't worth it.

Solid points all around Mr. VonTush.

Sex and violence are two different topics. Even in your OP you shied away from seeking out old D&D vaguely-risque pen sketches, which I thought raised its own questions. GW were never comfortable with sex, the neutering of Slaanesh capped off that "13 year old with a hard-on only for firepower" scene they solidified into.

Modern board games tend to the abstract. That's when it becomes harder to "justify" (either commercially or artistically) choices that, an observer may feel, are there only to provoke. Think of a worker placement euro about sex trafficking, then realize when it's all cubes, that your worker would be better as a renaissance stevedore going to the docks to collect crates of herring, rather than a hooker going to the docks to blow some sailors. It's less confrontational with the audience, less "icky".

I guess that boils down to "What would gore and/or sex bring to the game?"

Spartacus- A Game of Blood and Sand has violence, decapitations even in the game play, and the suggestion of slave rape in the mechanics, but it's kind of arms-length stuff, muted by the suggestion of a couple thousand years or so of historical distance that makes it somehow more palatable. It was a different time, etc. There aren't any clear depictions of violence in the art at all. Maybe it's the enduring puritanical streak of (especially Protestant American) Western culture.

Mr. White wrote: I find your idea of permanence as a possible reason intriguing.

I also agree about not appropriate in some settings. But what about those old GW photos posted? Are they inappropriate for kids or are they more in the Coyote v Roadrunner vein?

Remember, there are/were people who felt that violence in Looney Tunes is also inappropriate for kids.


I think the change has to do with the times. I think if you look at movie ratings you see something similar- the reasons you earn a PG instead of a G are absolutely insane. It almost feels like the middle ground between "absolutely inappropriate for kids" and "only a toddler would be interested in this" has been slowly eroded.

Look at the movie Frozen- I would have sworn it was a G rated movie, because it had nothing worse than Bambi in it from a sex/violence/language perspective. But it's a PG rated movie for "some action and mild rude humor".

Now compare that with Ghostbusters, which I just watched again for the first time in years. It's got swearing, plenty of sexual innuendo (including Dan Akroyd getting a BJ from a ghost) and yet... it's also a PG rated movie.

I don't know if this stems from fear of litigation, or the larger number of groups similar to the American Family Association that threaten to boycott companies but that common sense middle ground for content seems to be missing. And it's a shame, because that's where a lot of the fun came from back when I was a kid.

Ochobee wrote: Look at the movie Frozen- I would have sworn it was a G rated movie, because it had nothing worse than Bambi in it from a sex/violence/language perspective. But it's a PG rated movie for "some action and mild rude humor".

The kids must have watched it over 50 times, and I can't pinpoint any mild rude humor. Is it when the kid troll sings about Kristoff pissing in the woods? I'm at a loss.

Columbob wrote:

Ochobee wrote: Look at the movie Frozen- I would have sworn it was a G rated movie, because it had nothing worse than Bambi in it from a sex/violence/language perspective. But it's a PG rated movie for "some action and mild rude humor".

The kids must have watched it over 50 times, and I can't pinpoint any mild rude humor. Is it when the kid troll sings about Kristoff pissing in the woods? I'm at a loss.

Enjoy the insanity of the parent's guide.

My bad...I didn't intentionally leave anything out for this post, I just happened to be at that British gaming blog.

Here ya go.



Dave Trampier no less!

Columbob wrote:

Ochobee wrote: Look at the movie Frozen- I would have sworn it was a G rated movie, because it had nothing worse than Bambi in it from a sex/violence/language perspective. But it's a PG rated movie for "some action and mild rude humor".

The kids must have watched it over 50 times, and I can't pinpoint any mild rude humor. Is it when the kid troll sings about Kristoff pissing in the woods? I'm at a loss.

Isn't there a point in that troll song where one of the little ones insinuates that Christoph and Sven have inappropriate relations?

I kinda think it has to do with money.

GW had some really great art style going on in the 80's. But once they were traded publically, or a bit beforehand perhaps in anticipation of public trade, the company stopped being run by creative enthusiasts and became a regurgitation of dollies that sell.

I'm not even sure I buy that myself, and I too find it frustrating that I don't understand where it went politically correct. Perhaps its just a reflection of that abberant social change of the time. Dunno.

Mr. White wrote: Sex vs Violence is a whole different discussion (and we can have that too), but I'm really interested in y'alls thoughts on why sex and violence is ok in videogames and movies (and comics and television and music...seemingly all other forms of media), while boardgames got neutered.

Oh, I thought that was obvious.

TV and PC screens and keyboards can be easily cleaned with a moist towel. Board games are made of paper, and once they're spooged upon, the smell of bleach and the stain are both permanent.

The picture of the Succubus in the 1st edition D&D Monsters Manual was the beginning of my sexual awareness (that and I Dream of Jennie). Even that Harpy was interesting, turning me on and repulsing me at the same time. I think that if you were to do that today it would just seem like porn. It wouldn't have that air of mystery around it. I never thought of these things as porn when I was younger I just looked at the picture and questioned what my body told me afterwards. The violence is similar. It seemed ok at the time and ultimately I still think it's ok but we've changed and today you would have to put a trigger warning in there or make it just for adults... which basically means it's creepy all of a sudden.

Strangely the nudity and violence from that time felt more innocent in some way. But you may be right, it could just be nostalgia.

It's almost like we've become more and less puritanical during the interim.

But it's a scam. New editions of D&D are just as scandalous but the women stay clothed and they don't show the head coming off a body. Well, it's more mainstream so that's tougher to do but all of the same intentions are still there. Women are impossibly hot...more so than ever before I'd argue... you just aren't allowed to see two specific parts of their body for some reason that will always elude me. It seems to me that the newer stuff is creepier because it's more self aware and trying to fight against perceptions by pretending to be something it isn't.

The older stuff was at least honest. Intentions just laying there on the sleeve for all to see.

You're making me think about nostalgia though and I am realizing that I really, really don't like what it does to my critical faculties. I think it turns them off to some degree, I think my ability to reason and understand goes out the window somewhat. It feels good, but it's also a shame that so much is lost to gain that feeling.


As for why video games and movies can get away with things that boardgames can't. I think that's because boardgames have become a refuge for those who don't like what happened to video games and movies. I think the people who are bothered by sex and violence came to this hobby hoping to see games with morals (their version of morals of course) and the market has adjusted to make room for that. Also, the tactile nature of boardgames means you don't just see a nipple go by on screen briefly, you can touch it and stare at it.