Sex & Violence

My bad...I didn't intentionally leave anything out for this post, I just happened to be at that British gaming blog.

Here ya go.



Dave Trampier no less!

Columbob wrote:

Ochobee wrote: Look at the movie Frozen- I would have sworn it was a G rated movie, because it had nothing worse than Bambi in it from a sex/violence/language perspective. But it's a PG rated movie for "some action and mild rude humor".

The kids must have watched it over 50 times, and I can't pinpoint any mild rude humor. Is it when the kid troll sings about Kristoff pissing in the woods? I'm at a loss.

Isn't there a point in that troll song where one of the little ones insinuates that Christoph and Sven have inappropriate relations?

I kinda think it has to do with money.

GW had some really great art style going on in the 80's. But once they were traded publically, or a bit beforehand perhaps in anticipation of public trade, the company stopped being run by creative enthusiasts and became a regurgitation of dollies that sell.

I'm not even sure I buy that myself, and I too find it frustrating that I don't understand where it went politically correct. Perhaps its just a reflection of that abberant social change of the time. Dunno.

Mr. White wrote: Sex vs Violence is a whole different discussion (and we can have that too), but I'm really interested in y'alls thoughts on why sex and violence is ok in videogames and movies (and comics and television and music...seemingly all other forms of media), while boardgames got neutered.

Oh, I thought that was obvious.

TV and PC screens and keyboards can be easily cleaned with a moist towel. Board games are made of paper, and once they're spooged upon, the smell of bleach and the stain are both permanent.

The picture of the Succubus in the 1st edition D&D Monsters Manual was the beginning of my sexual awareness (that and I Dream of Jennie). Even that Harpy was interesting, turning me on and repulsing me at the same time. I think that if you were to do that today it would just seem like porn. It wouldn't have that air of mystery around it. I never thought of these things as porn when I was younger I just looked at the picture and questioned what my body told me afterwards. The violence is similar. It seemed ok at the time and ultimately I still think it's ok but we've changed and today you would have to put a trigger warning in there or make it just for adults... which basically means it's creepy all of a sudden.

Strangely the nudity and violence from that time felt more innocent in some way. But you may be right, it could just be nostalgia.

It's almost like we've become more and less puritanical during the interim.

But it's a scam. New editions of D&D are just as scandalous but the women stay clothed and they don't show the head coming off a body. Well, it's more mainstream so that's tougher to do but all of the same intentions are still there. Women are impossibly hot...more so than ever before I'd argue... you just aren't allowed to see two specific parts of their body for some reason that will always elude me. It seems to me that the newer stuff is creepier because it's more self aware and trying to fight against perceptions by pretending to be something it isn't.

The older stuff was at least honest. Intentions just laying there on the sleeve for all to see.

You're making me think about nostalgia though and I am realizing that I really, really don't like what it does to my critical faculties. I think it turns them off to some degree, I think my ability to reason and understand goes out the window somewhat. It feels good, but it's also a shame that so much is lost to gain that feeling.


As for why video games and movies can get away with things that boardgames can't. I think that's because boardgames have become a refuge for those who don't like what happened to video games and movies. I think the people who are bothered by sex and violence came to this hobby hoping to see games with morals (their version of morals of course) and the market has adjusted to make room for that. Also, the tactile nature of boardgames means you don't just see a nipple go by on screen briefly, you can touch it and stare at it.

I wonder if age/content ratings have anything to do with it. The ESRB and MPAA assign ratings to games and films, but there's no board game analogue. Generally content producers in both industries know what it takes to land in a ratings bracket.

Once a video game design team decides to include that little bit of content that pushes the game into a T or M rating then there's really nothing stopping them from including all the other fun stuff that the T or M bracket allows for. No single piece of content from the game is scrutinized all that much outside of a few "moral high grounders" because the whole product is rated as one work.

Same for movies. Suppose the director and writer insist that one particular scene requires nudity for some artistic reason and the whole film gets an R rating. Once they've accepted that they are working on an R rated film they're pretty much free to their artistic whims within that R ratings bracket.

Spartacus and Psycho Raiders put the "Mature/18+" label on to protect themselves, but they're outliers. Usually the age ranges on board games have more to do with complexity than content. Without a ratings system any bit of raciness or over-the-top violence/gore opens the company up to a bunch over-reactive parent complaints, which probably isn't worth it.***

People really do use those ratings systems to determine what's appropriate for their kids and family instead of their own judgement.

*** - I once got a stern look from a couple parents when their kid pulled the bare-breasted Harpy card in my copy of Talisman (I forget if it was 2nd or 3rd edition). What of it? Baby harpies gotta eat too.

JonJacob ftw. Succubus also had me REALLY interested in suddenly fantastizing about getting killed by whatever this thing was, and not caring. Sparks were firing in the testicules for the first time for sure.

In the G/PG semi-sidetrack - I thought that the G rating tends to reduce a movie's drawing power. G has that 'Friendship is Magic' sort of vibe to it, and if a tween/teen thinks it's uncool, they're not going.

I think these drawings reflect the low-budget, niche status of the games they belong to more than the moral mores of the era.

Artist simply had a wider range than they have now. If they art was bad, erotic, violent or such, nobody from the "outside world" would actually care and half of the time the artists were barely involved in the project so it wouldn't have mattered much even in the rare case that a bunch of nerds knee-deep in BDSM porn disguised as fantasy novels wanted to sanitize harpies.

Now things are different, creative control is tighter and the American market and specially BGG is notoriously conservative. There has been people complaining about nudity in Citadels and Dominion cards have been censored because you could see some extremely small buttcracks.

There's however the fact that boardgames have never pushed the envelope of the tasteful and acceptable as much as video games or movies have. I really can't think of many noteworthy board games that tried to be controversial while video games are still in a constant race to see who can be the most shocking. (Death Race, Mortal Kombat, Manhunt, you name it).


What I find pathethic is that there are hundreds of games in which you can decapitate an enemy or rip someone's heart out but the only noteworthy game which has sex in it is the heavily censored The Sims, which is so afraid of showing a nipple that it censors breast feeding.

Bull Nakano wrote: D&D 1st Ed was a pretty underground phenomenon. Sure, it was popular but it was also mysterious and taboo to the uninitiated. I'd say upper decks recent alien game is just as violent as those photos, but not the norm, but d&d wasn't the norm in 1980.

Sex? Well, Americans are funny. We by and large don't object to objectification, harassment, and gender based violence. That's sort of the issue, presenting the female breast in America is so unacceptable it's against the law. Coming from this sexually repressive culture, more free depictions of nudity are seen as sexual because that's what people associate the nude form with. Typically board gamers are pretty conservative folks, most seem family oriented, and many are over 35, so it's not surprising to me that sex in gaming is unacceptable.

Jesus, this kind of statement pisses me off. Americans don't object to objectification, harassment and gender based violence? Yeah, we are all out there groping women on the bus when we aren't beating the shit out of our wives. Bullshit.

Sex is everywhere in our culture. Don't give me that bullshit about movie ratings. They don't mean shit. And there are countless movies that put in sex scenes that in no way advance the story and only serve as a cheap thrill.

If you wonder why game products don't include crude drawings of boobs? Maybe it's because games by and large are bought by adults and I expect more. Sex and images of sex that serve no purpose other than to make imbeciles giggle with quasi-erotic thrill have no place in any game I want to own.

Funny how the "impossible" image of women gets mentioned but not that the males depicted are equally unrealistic. And by "funny" I mean "oh so predictable". How else can we feel superior unless we point the accusing finger at those so less enlightened.

And the topper to all of this is that it is even supposed for a minute on this of all websites that board games are in any way less violent. What game that could even be remotely called Ameritrash does not include violence? I can't think of a single one.

Along the lines of the Frozen parents' guide, this website is full of gonzo prudish entertainment:

www.capalert.com/now_playing.htm

For the kids!

Wow, Capalert is still around? I used to look at that site's movie reviews all the time- freaking hilarious. Like, Chick Tract levels of fundie fun. Their Fight Club review in particular was a good one...I love how they obsessively itemize every biblical infraction. Things like "punk dress" and these bizarro general statements like "offense to God". Oh, and "posing to focus attention on private parts".

Here's the breakdown for The Dark Knight Rises

anton Violence/Crime (W) - Zero out of 100
firearms, frequent
gunfire to intimidate and control, repeatedly, including control of thousands
action violence sequences with varying degrees of intensity, some with many deaths by various means, typically by gunfire, frequent
flash of injury gore
reckless endangerment with a shot arrow
theft, repeatedly
assault, repeatedly, some very graphic
dead body, repeatedly
firearm to the head, repeatedly
offensive and defensive gunfire, frequent, most to kill, some intense and massive and with automatic firearms
physical assault, frequent
reckless driving to escape/pursue, repeatedly
gunfire to kill, frequent
intense fight sequence, brutal
additional fight sequence
beating injuries
torture
death by fall with back break by rope, audible
gunfire killings by police
prison riot with assaults on guards
escape of 1000 prisoners by illegal release
three men hanging by the neck
assault of a child
defensive assault
sequence of massive assault of many
intense brutality
assault by many
stabbing, graphic
massive gun battles
woman slowly dying
nuclear detonation
attempted genocide of 3000 police officers

Impudence/Hate (I) - Zero out of 100
14 uses of profanity, none of the most foul of the foul words
bondage of three
extortion with threat with firearms and being thrown out of a plane as leverage
snooping in violation of direct instructions
use of hostages as shields
kidnapping, repeatedly
extortion of entire city population with nuclear bomb as leverage
fall of government into anarchy
"kangaroo" court, twice
assailant enjoying stabbing someone
characters depicting cold and uncaring sadistic apathy toward their victims

Sexual Immorality (S) - 74 out of 100
dressing to maximize the female form and/or skin exposure, repeatedly
innuendo re: male anatomy, twice
innuendo re: intercourse
gaping mouth kissing
man and woman in bed nude (covered)
posing to focus viewer on private parts

Drugs/Alcohol (D) - 79 out of 100
booze, repeatedly
drinking, repeatedly
drunkenness, once

Offense to God (O) - 83 out of 100
4 abuses of God's name, once with the four letter expletive
adulterous relationship
claim of immortality

Murder/Suicide (M) - Zero out of 100
murder by gunfire, many and frequent
murder by choking
murder by neck break, twice
unseen murder of mother
murder of many by explosion

Ha ha, this one from Dark Shadows (the lowest scoring PG13 movie of all time!) is even better- "house fixtures coming to life"...also "vampire mannerisms/tactics throughout". Yet no mention of Alice Cooper being in it.

Wanton Violence/Crime (W) - 17 out of 100
mob burying a man alive
scenes of a vampire with blood on his face, frequent
threat to kill if won't love
robbery
accessory to murder
additional burying a man alive
gunfire with bullets hitting flesh
choking
more gunfire with bullets hitting flesh
long sequence of action violence
removing one's own heart
attempted suicide for love

Impudence/Hate (I) - zero out of 100
18 uses of profanity plus once by a teen
falsification of identity
adolescent threat to force her way
adolescent disrespect/arrogance, repeatedly
extortion
rudeness
lies
abandonment of a child

Sexual Immorality (S) - 1 out of 100
heavy kissing
open mouth kissing
15 year old girl trying to flaunt her sex appeal, repeatedly
brother telling about her sister's masturbation
4 women in very short skirts
positioning of oral sex
excessive cleavage, repeatedly
anatomical reference, repeatedly
inappropriate touch
female groping a male's privates
stripping to entice
vulgar antics in foreplay
dressing to maximize the female form and/or skin exposure, repeatedly
rude stare
heavy making out in adultery
woman removing her underwear to place it on a man's face
song of sexual quest

Drugs/Alcohol (D) - zero out of 100
booze, repeatedly
smoking, repeatedly
drinking, repeatedly
drunkenness, repeatedly
bar
abuse of prescription drugs (consuming with alcohol)
group smoking of dope
young girl smoking dope
drug intoxication, including of young girl
teen expressing lust for booze
additional smoking of dope

Offense to God (O) - zero out of 100
11 abuses of God's name
searching for evil power
evil spell to cause death and to cause performance against the subject's will, including a child, repeatedly
witch, frequent
spell to transform human into a vampire
specter, repeatedly, of Josette and David's mother, once in replay of suicide
unholy resurrection of the dead
vampire bite, repeatedly
submission to Satan
vampire mannerisms/tactics, throughout
snake tongue from a woman
inhuman physical feats during making out/foreplay
inhuman physical strength, repeatedly
seeking guidance from an unholy entity
unholy magic to do harm or force performance, repeatedly
arson by evil magic
flesh deformation into porcelain-like skin covering emptiness, repeatedly
battle between 2 unholy entities
moving still paintings
evil magic causing destruction of manor and contents
shape-shifting to a werewolf
house fixtures coming to life and attacking
long sequence of battle and argument between two unholy entities

Murder/Suicide (M) - zero out of 100
double murder by unholy magic
suicide forced by unholy magic
vampire murder of 11 men
multiple vampire murders, heard but not seen
murder by vampire bite, repeatedly
additional suicide

There are some great song titles in there. Here's the first single off my new cd, "Searching For Evil Power"
A. Song of Sexual Quest
B. Arson By Evil Magic

Name of band- Rude Stare