The Dark Knight Rises **WITH SPOILERS**

The Wing wrecked my suspension of disbelief because there were all those stupid leaked shots of it flying through the streets during production. Dammit, i wish I hadn't seen those.

Black Barney wrote: oh man, c'mon it ain't worse than Batman Begins. Holmes RUINS that movie, no?

Only when she's on screen. I thought the Batman parts were pretty good. Of course, I though that about all these films. A shame there's only about ten minutes of Batman in this three hour movie.

Earlier in this thread Ken mentions that he thinks Talia and maybe others have an escape plan from Gotham? I don't think there are half-converts in the League of Shadows (except Bruce Wayne). If they believe their main role is to destroy Gotham, they ain't leaving. I don't think they have any fear of death nor see any reason to live now that their mission is coming to fruition (like that dude in the plane at the beginning that stays behind).

People who are planning to escape don't run towards the truck carrying a six-mile-radius neutron bomb with only minutes on the clock. Everyone knows it can't be defused, because they shot the Russian guy in the head five months before. It's got a six-mile radius, is it really necessary to have a car chase for a few blocks? Park the truck and let it blow up. Or, blow it up at any time in the past 150 days, that would have worked too.

I still can't make any sense of Bane and Talia's motivations at any point in this film. All the explanations I hear (not just on F:AT) just sound like handwaving bullshit to me.

I must be the only one who preferred Holmes.

yes, you are.

I actually thought Maggie was the best

I finally watched Expendables (the first one), thanks to comments here. I liked the way each person had a different style. But what struck me was the knife guy: he had the sort of moves I'd expect from Batman. And that highlighted another area I think DKR lacks, uninspired fight choreography and no BatGadgets.

Notahandle wrote: ...uninspired fight choreography and no BatGadgets.

Um, the fight scene where Bane breaks him? It's brilliant in the way it was shot alone, but the fighting itself is great. No music and utterly brutal. By far better than anything in that weak turd The Expendables.

And BatGadgets are not necessarily a core part of the character, and if anything, takes away from it. They're more a product of the 60s show, where Batman has a whole cave of gadgets for literally any potential situation. No joke, he has a Bat-3D-Restoration machine which he used when several notable Gothamites we turned into cardboard cutouts. And, of course, it's labeled with a big sign above it, heaven forbid he confuse it for anything else. The gadgetry was sort of echoed in the Burton films, but again, not entirely faithful to the comics. Trust me, I'm sort of an expert. I always felt the gadgetry often detracted from the detective aspect (which, granted, still has yet to be translated properly) and pushed him more into cheesy 007 territory.

FWIW, if anyone remembers Matt Loter's stance on Castle Ravenloft, I'll now be adopting the same ideology to TDKR.

Wasn't talking about the way it was shot, just the choreography. It felt too static, if that makes sense, going toe to toe. Guess I'd've liked it to be more dynamic, fluid, Batman making more use of the environment. Hell, maybe all I'm saying is that I didn't like the feel of it...

Good point re the gadgets not being a core part, but a nod to the idea would've been nice. I'm not suggesting any 60s (don't forget the rehydrator!) or 007 OTT silliness, but using something from the utility belt or a Batarang wouldn't have been out of keeping with the tone of the film.

As for the detective aspect, oh yeah, a film noir Batman, now that would be different and welcome.

I'm far from a Batman expert, but I guess what it boils down to is, is it a film that seems uniquely Batman? Put it this way, if, instead of the lead character being Bruce Wayne/Batman, it had been John McClaine, how much of the film would fail to work?