Parenting, screens and games.

Trying to figure out how screen types effects child development. My son clearly wants to play video games but he has little to no experience so far. Some iPad runners and a few minutes of Mario Kart.

But he's at that age now, three and half, and it's coming real soon. I can smell it in the air. Kids a year or so older are playing games and several of the other kids we know have their own iPads by the time they are 7. There are a lot of parents here who talk like they are good responsible parents. Any advice? How much time? What kind of policing goes on with the style of games they can play.. this kind of thing.

(Loter just posted a similar thread, so I don't know to cross-post this or what, but going in here as it was up first)

First, I don't claim to have the right answers. I figure 'its a brave new world' and all that and each parent is only doing what they _think_ is in their child's best interest. I don't limit game time because I'm a meanie or on a power trip.

As y'all are aware, my son started around age 5 when I got him that RetroDuo for SNES games. He loved it. Well, before that he was able to play apps on phones. At 7, he's fully into video games, and my daughter (4) has been exposed at a much younger age since her brother has been doing it. At this point though, she seems fine just watching videos and such during her 'technology time' and she also seems a bit more at ease transitioning out of it.

Do I think videogames are harmful or don't offer anything developmental? Well, no...so long as it's in moderation (a theme at our house). There's a bit of pushback on my end simply because his world (and ours) is so immersed in videogaming. Hell, kids in his class (2nd grade!) bust out phones and pads while waiting in line after school. Do I want him always looking over the shoulders of others? Feel like he's somehow less than because he doesn't have a phone but _only_ a library book? It's tough.

Thing is, is Minecraft better or worse than Lego? I dunno. But it's not like kids are solely playing Minecraft and we can talk physics. Sure we can do that a few times, but the lesson is learned and on to playing videogames. If not Minecraft, MK8, or WoW, or apps on moms phone in the car or at restaurants...on and on. (Next time you eat out, see how many kids are on phones. I doubt they're doing something educational)

Still, with video games you don't have the frustration of your physical lego tower breaking and having to rebuild. You don't have the experience of baiting your own hook or condition yourself to run a mile. There's a whole world out there besides looking at glowing screens...which is what he'll be doing as an adult if he wants to make any money (and the robots don't have the jobs).

So, in the end, yeah, electronics can be tools and even educational, but when they are interjected into nearly every life experience _and_ as addictive as they seem to be...yeah, I'm not with it.

Balance and moderation.

To answer your question specifically, Jacob, we currently only allow videogame time on the weekends. Usually about an hour each day Fri-Sun. Sometimes it goes a little longer. Every once in awhile we'll allow some time during the week, but that can become a 'give an inch, take a mile' situation..."I know it's Wednesday, but you let me play yesterday!"

Without family around, my wife and I could get so much more done if we let them play on devices more, so even for us there's a pull to allow it more.

And like I mentioned in Barnes' thread, he's a good kid. Like most kids he's doing what other folks want him to do (8 hours of school, stuff at home)...Is there really harm in letting him play some at home during the week? Am I swimming upstream too much?

There have been times when there are tears because some of the weekend technology time didn't happen for reasons beyond anyone's control. Would that happen if I let up more during the week?

By saying 'no' during the week, am I not allowing there to be a balance? Should we let up because he's doing so well or is he doing so well because we've got an environment where he has to do other activities as well?

I dunno, man.

Two decent books I read that covered this were Reality is Broken and The Incredible Years: A troubleshooting Guide for Children 2-8.

I haven't read them in a while but if I remember, it's not a bad thing at all. An hour a day and perferably 4 hours a week I think was considered perfectly fine. Kids need to be comfortable with computing and my 3-yr old girl, Emily, is already super comfortable with two different tablet Operating Systems. Navigating menus, scrolling, it's remarkable. I don't let her play anything violent or aggressive. She does lots of problem solving and puzzles and her pre-K instructor told me that she's way ahead of the other kids when it comes to puzzles. She says it's really rare that 3-yr olds have this level of interest in puzzles. I can't imagine it not having a result from being on tablets sometimes playing this stuff.

On the flip side, she gets really aggressive (just like her old man) when something isn't responding well, "OH COME ON!" so we keep that in check and give her head's up when she's running low on time left for using the tablet. I purposely let the battery run out too when she's using it so she learns to roll with that kind of stuff.

She doesn't necessarily prefer the tablet to toys either. She still loves books and wants me to read some to her frequently. She still builds houses and towers out of blocks. She still has a wildly active imagination when she plays with animal toys and makes them talk to each other. So I don't see any developmental narrowing because of the time on the tablet (which, again, I keep in moderation).


I should mention that I use time on the tablet as a reward system too. She doesn't get to use "black iPad" (that's my Surface) if she hasn't picked up her toys or stuff like that.

Barney, is that 4 hours a week gaming? what about other TV watching? Is that on top of it?

I think I read an article a year or so ago that said kids watch nearly 40hrs of TV a week. Is that good or bad? Not like they got fields to plow or sheep to shear with their time. Is 40hrs bad with 3-5 of videogaming dropped on top?

When I mention 'technology time' in our house, that's playing video games. We do have one family movie night a week, and allow a little TV in the morning before school, but beyond that the TV is off. There are a _ton_ of movies my kids haven't seen and far less then I did at their age.

Am I doing it wrong? Who the hell knows!?

I'm including TV time when I say an hour a day. TV or games... it doesn't matter to us. We try to limit it somewhat and these rules are occasionally broken, of course.

It would be easy to plop him down in front of the TV and get household chores done... but what we do instead is one person gets the chores and the other plays with our child.

I do the playing normally, unless the chores really suck.

I also am unsure if I'm doing this right, who isn't?

Thanks for the book mentions Barney, I'll check if they have them at the library.

40 hours is way too much a week for TV. I think I read that you can't do more than 4 hours a day for a kid. The video games and TV are considered the same I think when trying to limit the timing of this stuff.

So yeah, I think 40 hours is bad especially if you're not including video gaming. Start by trying to bring it down to 1 hour of video gaming and 3 additional hours of TV (for a total of 4) per day. I think that'll be a big help. More than that, i don't know how you don't get some form of ADD if you are continuously bombarded with fun and easy signals.

You do as you like, Jeff, I'm sure you're an excellent and caring father. If you wanted a suggestion, I'd cut the TV before school, I can't think of a worse time to watch TV when they're going to be listening to a teacher and trying to focus on that an hour later. The teacher can't compete with the earlier stimuli they got that day.

Family movie night is a great idea, just like family game night. You can interact in family movie night so there's no trouble there. Family time together is always good.

My opinion on this is simple: avoid the i-pad for as long as possible. You will lose him to a tablet in less then 10 years anyhow. Spend time TOGETHER as much as possible until this happens. Play games together. Go outside. Even video games TOGETHER is fine. Stay away from the crack, man!

engineer Al wrote: Stay away from the crack, man!

We limit the crack to 15 minutes a day.

On the books I mentionned:

Reality is Broken - is a very pro-gaming book. The author is convinced that the gamification of society is happening and we'll see more and more of this and TONS of good can come from it when deployed correctly (my company is currently exploring this and we're in Group Savings and Retirement for crying out loud). It lightly touches on the benefits of kids playing games. It's a very interesting read regardless.

The Incredible Years - A Troubleshooting guide for children aged 2-8 - is an amazing book. It's the most recommended (and tough to get) book from child psychologists on how to stack the deck in your kids favour during these most important years of your kids developing and eventually cementing their personalities. There's a bit on TV and I found it very helpful.