Parenting, screens and games.

I'm certainly not going to tell anyone how they should raise their kids, it's kind of like spirituality- do what works for you.

But I will say this. I think the #1 slip-up that parents make in approaching video games, TV, movies, iDevices or any other form of entertainment is to assume that these things have power over our children's minds. There is nothing about any of this stuff that renders even a very small child unable to discern right from wrong, good from bad, excess from moderation. Sure, there are certain emotional and psychological responses- even addiction- that can come from video games or whatever, but if you treat this stuff like invasive, mind-controlling evil then that's exactly what it will be.

The #2 thing that parents get wrong about video games is not knowing jack shit about them or not caring about them. This is when you get parents buying 10 year olds GTA or whatever, or letting them go off into their rooms all day to play DS as a babysitting surrogate. I know all about games, I'm involved with games, and I play games with them. I got them all of this Skylanders stuff and by gum I'll likely be playing it the whole time with them.

My kids have been playing games and watching TV (mostly movies and shows I sort of curate for them, not much of the random kid crap that's on these days) since they were as young as one. I never treat this stuff like it somehow controls their minds and somehow disables their ability to make good decisions and lead balanced lives where these things are PART of life but never the CENTER or MAJORITY of it. From very early on, I established with my kids a few rules about video games, for example:

1) If you ask to play it, the answer is automatically no because we can find something else to do. Dad decides when we can play.
2) Video games are best played with friends or family, but it is OK if there is nothing else to do to play alone. Dad will play with you whenever possible.
3) If there is something that NEEDS to be done, we do that first.
4) When Dad says it's off, it's off. No exceptions.
5) We don't worry about or stress out over video games, including whenever the next time to play them might be.
6) If it's a nice day outside, video games are off. Period.

It really helps that I play games, understand them, and know how to be effective about policing them.

We have had a couple of incidents where River in particular has gotten really upset or angry when we take the iPad away when he won't surrender it. So that just means that he's off it for a week or more. Scarlett doesn't really care as much about it.

The big problem we have is with grandparents. My mom and dad come to see them and bring their iPads. So they will sit in our living room playing iPad crap with them (NONE of which I've approved or selected so it's all of this asinine shit like cats that repeat what you say or whatever) literally for hours. But what I found that works is to SHAME the kids for allowing that to happen. One time, after my parents left I took River and Scarlett aside and told them I was really disappointed that they sat and played with the iPads all day. I showed them that it was a good day to play outside and asked them why they didn't tell grandma and papa that they wanted to draw, go to the park, go to the ice cream shop, read books or do something else. River got really sad because I showed him how he had missed out on doing OTHER things he would have liked to do.

But this happens with my wife's parents too, they do the same thing. And for some reason, this sense I've got instilled in them to realize when they've had enough doesn't work during grandparents time.

WHich is is kind of weird, because both of them will say "I'm done with the iPad" or "I'm ready to do something else", usually in a reasonable time. Some of it may be because we have older parents that aren't really as active or engaged as we are, they're not down in the floor playing board games or out in the yard with them or whatever.

So it's really all about finding the right balance and both TRAINING and TRUSTING kids' judgement and discernment to self-manage. Rather than flip out about video games, limit them to 10 minutes a day (I mean, come on...that's just not even realistic), act like they are somehow melting kids' minds away or any other silly overreaction like that, give your kids the ability to make a decision to turn it off for themselves. If you act like these things have power over your kids and you don't let your kids learn to manage their time with them, then they WILL have power over your kids.

As far as TV and movies go, I think there's a big difference between watching a FILM and watching a TV show. And that translates into how I manage that with River and Scarlett.

If they want to watch a FILM- Toy Story 3, Iron Giant, Kiki's Delivery Service, Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory, whatever...I'm almost always totally fine with that as long as they couldn't be playing outside or doing something constructive like a craft project or something.

I don't rush in to turn it off after they've seen 20 minutes because of some kind of silly daily quota or whatever...because they are watching a FILM and they deserve both the respect to be able to see the whole thing as well as the ability to watch as much of it as they want. Film is an art form, and to limit watching movies is like telling kids they can only see part of a painting or that they can only look at it for so long.

With TV, it's very different IMO. Even with really good shows like Rebels or Clone Wars, we don't allow binge watching. Shows are short, and your time with them should be the same. But there again, let them see the whole thing FFS. Don't rush in halfway through an episode to turn it off.

What we DO limit is exposure to a lot of the really obnoxious, empty kids programming that's out there. Like the fucking Bubble Guppies. That is the best example of a show that has pretty much NOTHING of value to offer to children. There's no storytelling, the pace is frantic, and it's all basically like the Happy Little Elves on the Simpsons- characters jumping up and down and making funny sounds to keep small children's attention until the commercials come on.

Not to say that all of the current kids'shows are bad. I think Sofia the First is really good, I like watching that with Scarlett- it's basically Disney princess meets Harry Potter. Light fantasy, fun characters (Tim Gunn), moral stories. Yo Gabba Gabba is awesome- you can't beat life lessons like "don't bite your friends" or "hold still"- and it's great that they have REAL BANDS playing REAL MUSIC on there, not god damn Squiggleman or whatever singing about peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. Rescue Bots is a fun, non-violent way to do Transformers...no Megatron, they just battle, like, avalanches and stuff.

I do not like Caillou, but they like it and I've come to appreciate that it's a very gentle, very relatable show for young kids. They like Daniel Tiger too, which is basically the evolution of Mr. Roger's Neighborhood.

We do let them watch older kids shows- Power Rangers, TMNT, Rebels, My Little Pony...and some of the old fashioned cartoons from our childhood- Dungeons and Dragons, He-Man/She-Ra, Gummi Bears, Duck Tales, etc...but watching all of this stuff is more of a family affair

Black Barney wrote: She says it's really rare that 3-yr olds have this level of interest in puzzles. I can't imagine it not having a result from being on tablets sometimes playing this stuff.

I'm not one who thinks that it is necessarily bad for a child to spend time playing video games or using a tablet. However, I would be careful how much you attribute to the medium versus the activity. For instance, our 2 and 1/2 year old is already putting together 50 piece puzzles and she has learned the "old-fashioned" way with big puzzles on the floor. She doesn't even need help anymore -- just dumps it out and assembles it.

Barnes, like most of us, your post has some good in it and sounds like you're doing what best works for y'all.

The only issue I take is that I don't think any of us are saying it's evil or mind controlling, but that it is addictive and it is everywhere. There does need to be limits in place (like you seem to also impose) or the kids will 'eat ice cream all the time' to paraphrase jacob.

(I was joking about the old folks v videogames)

Take for the example with your grandparents. Without dad being 'the authority' at that point they apparently defaulted to playing app games all day. Not judging the kids, mine would likely do the same.

But what I think we're all trying to do is to find a way to allow the kids to regulate themselves. I hope that by limiting it they'll be able to find peace doing something else, you choose to shame them when they make a poor decision. I think we (the parents posting) are all trying to achieve the same thing. _None_ of us are saying 'no videogames' or that they are evil, but the struggle to teach the kids balance.

I do think parents need to be informed and we're very involved. The kids aren't up in their rooms playing, but down in the living room with the family. During their tech time, I'm sure to ask them what they built/are watching/what place they came in, etc. And that is if I'm not playing with them. However, when the tech is away I'll talk about Minecraft a little, and bring it up some myself, but not all week til the next fix.

If you have kids under 3 (or maybe even 4), I highly recommend the "Endless Alphabet" and "Endless Number" apps --basically the letters and numbers teach sounds, definitions, addition, counting. The cool thing is the letter and numbers are monsters that laugh and talk -- our daughter loves it.

As for TV, I pretty much agree with Barnes. We allow more FILM activities that are watching an entire movie (which often consists of doing a lot of playing with the TV on in the background) a couple times a week. In terms of TV shows, there is PBS Kids -- Sesame Street, Daniel Tiger, and Dinosaur Train (probably the favorite right now, she loves the conductor).

No, you guys are more sane than some other parents I know...these people that think kids should never touch an iPhone until they are 15, people that won't allow any TV at all because it somehow stifles development, whatever...some parents just flip the fuck out over this stuff and adopt this regressive, really quite luddite position about technology and technology mediums.

Thing is, video games and such are only addictive if you let them be. There is no biological or physiological reason that a child becomes addicted to playing them. No more so than playing Jacks or Hi-Ho Cherry O.

It's almost like with these kinds of parents there's this assumption that kid's minds are just clay...which I DO NOT agree with at all. It's true that they need input, they reciprocate certain stimuli and so forth...but to assume that kids just lose all self-control when shown Angry Birds is ridiculous.

What kids ARE though, is easily distracted. Ipads and such are distracting, so they gravitate to them. But you can also say "hey, let's build a fort" and they'll come away from it.

Now here's the rub...later on, when they get older, there's a SOCIAL element that comes into that makes it a lot harder. It used to be sis was on the phone all night. Now she's on Instagram all night instead. That's something those of us with younger kids aren't going to be dealing with for some time. But I do think there's a different dynamic involved there because so much of young people's social lives revolve around technology these days.

One thing we noticed that was our primary driver for limiting evening screen time was sleep. If my daughter (5) watches video anywhere within about an hour of her bedtime she is fairly agitated and has a much harder time calming down. Cutting down to an hour of screen time max, usually 30 min, roughly 2 hours before bed has helped tremendously.

And of course it's kid dependent. My kid is extremely sensitive to not only violence (which is everywhere) but ominous music and anything resembling tension or conflict. Finding shows and games she is interested in is a bit of a challenge, although she is slowly starting to emerge from it as she gets older.

That's funny because our daughter is the opposite right before bedtime. Now we read 2 or 3 books, then watch a Donald Duck cartoon, then snuggle and "do rhyming words". Before Donald Duck, though, bedtime was a nightmare -- it is a way for her to relax, laugh, and get ready for bed.

Michael Barnes wrote: I do not like Caillou, but they like it and I've come to appreciate that it's a very gentle, very relatable show for young kids.

Straight up though -- you want to strangle the little shit, don't you? If Caillou was my kid he'd be making some changes or not getting dinner. What a whiner.

I can't stand Caillou. And where is his hair?

Cailou sucks. My kid watches it too sometimes but I can't stand it. I can't prove this but it seems to me that a lot of these types of shows teach kids to be whiny pricks.

They always start off whiny, in pretty much every episode, and than learn a lesson by show's end that ends said whiny-ness. But then next show - pure whiny BS again. From what I can tell that seems to be teaching them that it's ok to be whiny most of the time. But like I said, I can't prove it and we pretty much accept it for now.

But I try to make sure that any show he's watching is given some context. We try to talk about what happens in the show (which means we watch them too) and we try to create conversations about it. This is nigh impossible for a three year old to take part in but our theory is that if we start this process now he will eventually be used to the idea in general, the idea of questioning what we see and discussing it afterwards. Making sure to allow him time to speak his mind (mostly nonsense) hopefully ensuring him that his opinion is still important to us.

Our son also likes a little TV before bed. That's the time we use it. Bath, a show, and then some books... usually 3-4 but I've had nights where I've read 10 of the damned things. I actually have come to love children's books and I don't look forward to not keeping up with what some of my favorite authors are doing once he's too old to enjoy them. Do I just stop reading Jon Klassen, Julia Donaldson and Oliver Jeffers? I suppose the library is my friend eh?

We treat TV and movies a little differently, but not much. He usually doesn't have the patience to sit through a feature film so it's rarely an issue. Even TV shows he won't sit through unless it's one of his favorite programs... in which case I bet we could leave him alone for a day. Once he clicks with a show it can become obsessive. That scares me.

I think that the more time I put into this and the more children I socialize with (his friends) the more it seems to me that the number one thing in all of this is really getting to know your child and keeping up with who they are. That means lots of listening and engaging. Knowing who this little person is makes these choices a lot easier to make. Not all children respond the same way.

Michael Barnes wrote: There is no biological or physiological reason that a child becomes addicted to playing them. No more so than playing Jacks or Hi-Ho Cherry O.

Not busting your balls or calling you out, but how does this jive with what you mentioned up-thread where River refused to let go of the iPad? Several of us have also mentioned how sometimes that period transitioning away from the device/game has caused fits/tears/frustration.

I don't think any of us have experienced kids getting upset over Hi-Ho Cherry O's time being up.

Again, I'm not taking you, specifically, to the carpet, but more a general observation. There's obviously more to videogames (whether it be by design or not) than many other forms of entertainment.

Yeah, Mike is wrong about that one. There is a well-documented dopamine and opioid response to video games that cause them to be addictive. That's why kids will stay up all night, skip meals, etc. This is especially pronounced in games with "progressive leveling".

Boyan A., & Sherry, J. (2011). The challenge in creating games for education: Aligning mental models with game models. Child Development Perspectives, 5(2), 82-87.

It doesn't mean it is all bad, though. There are as many physiological benefits to videogame as there are negatives.

Staiano, A., & Calvert, S. (2011). Exergames for physical education courses: Physical, social, and cognitive benefits. Child Development Perspectives, 5, 93-98.


This is just the tip of the iceberg -- there is a vast literature on the effect of videogames on all types of outcomes.

Michael Barnes wrote: Thing is, video games and such are only addictive if you let them be. There is no biological or physiological reason that a child becomes addicted to playing them. No more so than playing Jacks or Hi-Ho Cherry O.

Actually, there are a lot of biological and physiological reactions going on when people play video games. Heart rate goes up, blood pressure goes up, adrenaline levels rise, etc. Do a quick Google scholar search and you'll find a lot of literature on the subject. Does that make it "addictive"? Not necessarily, but it's part of the reason you feel excited when you play a game and what brings you back for more.

Jumping in on the conversation, I believe experts suggest kids under 3 years and under should be limited to 2 hours of screen time a day. Maybe it's 2 years old. Anyways, we have a 2.5 year old and we try to limit his screen time but we don't really time it. We don't have cable nor Netflix. So he has access to movies and shows on DVD and Amazon Prime. He watches Yo Gabba Gabba and Daniel Tiger a lot. I'm OK with most of it because when he watches something, he is also reenacting it. Jumping, running, getting his little Cozy Coupe car out to drive around in when the characters drive, etc. So he's at least active while watching.

We also have a Wii and he "plays" it by us playing it. But most of the games are getting really scratched up, so that's not going so well. He really likes Just Dance, and again he's dancing and moving.

He also plays on the iPad sometimes, we have numerous age appropriate apps on there he plays with. Though he also likes to go into Lords of Waterdeep, heh. They are mostly creative things, make a monster, make a bug, explore the ocean or space, etc. They're cute.

His screen time did become an issue while my wife was experiencing morning sickness (BTW Announcement: Wife is pregnant with kiddo #2). Upon waking up he was handing us DVDs to put in. I can't blame my wife for letting him watch movies so much when she was laying on the couch trying to keep herself from throwing up. But it got to be a problem afterwards.

All I know is that twitch-playing Duck Hunt and Super Mario made my hands and eyes much faster, making me a better martial artist and shooter. Or at least, that's the only thing that I can imagine explains my hand speed.

Well, besides masturbation. Lots and lots.