Uncomfortable Discussion- is Civilization obsolete?

Wade, I'll trade or sell. I don't have Advanced though. Make offers!

Michael Barnes wrote: Wade, I'll trade or sell. I don't have Advanced though. Make offers!

I've got an up-to-date For Trade list on TOS, check me out there (same username). Probably not in a buying mood though; I'm trying to slim down and am prepping a big sale as it is.

My wife and daughter and I have played Civilization the past few years on New Year's Eve. Takes about 4-5 hours with the 3 of us.

I just remembered something else: you can shorten the end game trigger by playing until a power reaches a certain age (eg Bronze age or whatever).

Somebody just posted "condensed civiliation" which cuts Advanced Civilization in half, supposedly. I haven't had time to take a look at it yet.

bgg.cc/filepage/105819/condensed-civilization-ver-110

Ten years ago, I played Advanced Civilization for the second and final time. Four players, twelve hours of play, and maybe four hours of moderate fun. By comparison, I have played Twilight Imperium 3 four times in the last five years, and even the 6-player game took less than 7 hours to play and delivered a lot more fun than Civ.

I have a love/hate relationship with Civ. I have played it a dozen times over the last decade, I have never won a game but generally have a good time with it. But I have had two copies stolen from me over the years. So while I have enjoyed playing it, I have just lost too much money with it. Now that I no longer run a convention, I have no fear of losing a copy, but my wife and friends have no interest in playing it.

I love Civ. I just need to plan a full day in advance with lots of good food, music and topics of discussion between friends, and Civ. makes for a great day game.

So my disclaimer is with "Good friends" only.

Hear is my sad story. In 1997, at the apex of my Magic the Gathering years, I traded away Civilization, and Advance Civilization for a booster box of Fallen Empires. I swear to god.

I've been jabbing my nuts on that one ever since. As Barnes is on the hunt for Euro's, I am on the hunt for my lost classics. Civ./Advanced Civ. highest on that list.

Michael Barnes wrote:
Let's come to Jesus here. How many of you guys have actually played Civilization in the past five years? Ten years? How many games with 8+ hour playtimes have you FINISHED in the last five/ten years? And NOT on Vassal.

I played last year at BGG.CON. I would do it every year if I could. And that was with I believe 12 people.

The warm embrace of a 12 hour adv. civ. megagame. Truthfully, nothing can match it in the gaming world.

Chapel wrote:
The warm embrace of a 12 hour adv. civ. megagame. Truthfully, nothing can match it in the gaming world.

Chapel is totally and utterly right.

Online Civ has largely removed the need for the 12 hour boardgame IMO. It was groundbreaking, but the electronic medium is superior in every way. Less bookkeeping, upkeep, and fiddling. The core changes to the game are also better in the vidya game version I feel. It's not fettered by the need for physical components, which allows for more depth without making the game overwhelming.

The same couldn't be said for so etching like Lifeboats or Cosmic Encounter, where I think the face-to-face interaction definitely improves the game on every level, no computerized version will ever replace those games.

I haven't played Civilization much, but I really don't think you should take 12 hours to complete it. There will be a lot of trades to be made and limiting them to a couple minutes won't really make them less interesting, so it's the best way to significantly cut down the playtime.

This may seem counterproductive because if there's a reason why Civilization is not "obsolete" is the trading. No other game has something like it, at best it's toned down or euro-ized which is good but not as powerful. It's the reason to play it, I think.

But if you don't like that aspect as much, I think Age of Renaissance is better. The mechanics are tighter, the technologies are extremely interesting and the playtime is very manageable. The only problem with it are some swingy issues and need to play it several times. Otherwise, it's the only game that strikes me as being similar to it.

Interestingly enough, the designer of AoR wants to published a sequel to it or at least an updated ruleset. He was surprised people were interested, let's hope he finds a way to publish the game.

Age of Renaissance definitely belongs in the same tier as Civilization. Both are irreplaceable as far as I'm concerned. Looks like I'll be playing Advanced Civ again on about 10 days.