Consimworld bitch thread

Gary Sax wrote: ...the users LOVE the current format.

Exactly. It keeps out the casuals.

Yeah, they love them some conversational style forums over there. Recently the MMP folder--where you'd think they'd want to stick to marketing and supporting their games and all-too-infrequent upcoming releases--exploded in a paroxysm of NFL playoff discussion. A couple people had the temerity to suggest that this might not be good for signal-to-noise ratio for lurkers, and were essentially told to get fucked (I'm paraphrasing) by the moderators, who are of course the company management.

I only go to CSW if I have a rule question. It's alright for that purpose.

There are good people there as well. I once had a longer e-mail exchange with fellow communist Jack Radey.

word_virus wrote:

Gary Sax wrote: ...the users LOVE the current format.

Exactly. It keeps out the casuals.

Along with anyone who might otherwise develop a stronger interest in wargames. The good news is the 55-70 generation or whatever age they are won't be around forever...

word_virus wrote:

Gary Sax wrote: ...the users LOVE the current format.

Exactly. It keeps out the casuals.

I like the part where it actually hinders the usage of the site by the non-"casuals" as well---but I guess that's the price of keeping the club!

repoman wrote: This from the same guy that goes into frothing mouthed rabid pit bull mode at the slightest aspersion towards homosexuals.

Hey, I said I hate white people; I love dogs!

red black wrote:

word_virus wrote:

Gary Sax wrote: ...the users LOVE the current format.

Exactly. It keeps out the casuals.

Along with anyone who might otherwise develop a stronger interest in wargames. The good news is the 55-70 generation or whatever age they are won't be around forever...

. . . and they'll be buried along with their copy of Tobruk. The hobby will have one less member showing interest and no troubled youth to replace them. CSW acts as a filter and kiddies used to flashy front-ends are going to balk after five minutes of searching. If that.

CSW is free to do as it wants. The owner can launch a new site that presents the same material with a better front end, he can let the crawlers on or keep them off, he can let things rot and die if he likes. It's his web site. But the publishers . . . from a sales and marketing perspective CSW is a mess, and each publisher is left with little ability to manage their message to their customer base. Each would do well to move conversation onto their own website, or onto a third-party web site that provides them with better exposure and a better ability to gather metrics and present their products. They're the ones that really have skin in the game.

S.

Good point, Sag, the publishers using the company forums for support is rather puzzling since they're so shitty for any but hardcore users. MMP moved towards a non-CSW approach with their new website, but I think they need to totally make a divorce for it to really stick. GMT finally got involved with BGG, which was a Very Good Idea, and now their website is considerably slicker than it used to be as well.

But they still need a lot of work.

Also, FWIW, it looks like Adam from MMP has decided to start a monthly promotion thread with info on BGG, in case you don't feel like plumbing the horrid depths of CSW every day.

www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/115354/th...kweather-for-january

I'm sure I remember reading somewhere that many of the designers/publishers liked the format because it was easier to deal with on their end. All they really have to do is read through the thread and answer (or not) any questions. No shuffling through multiple threads, no keeping track of anything. It is certainly easier. But they're selling their business short with it.

As a 23 year old breaking into wargames I usually find CSW more trouble than it is worth unless I'm really fucking stuck on one rules question.

With how anal war game books tend to be with appendixes, numbered chapters, etc., I'm really surprised the top war game site just tends to cramp every game into one big megathread. There's some really good info in there, but it's such pain in the ass to find anything. Even browsing through the games can be a pain.

At least the people on the site are pretty friendly and answer questions rather than smugly telling you that the question has already been answered, you just need to skim through the 200 page thread to find it.

That site's a nightmare. It's fun to poke around and marvel at the horrible organization but I'd find it dispiriting if I was just breaking into the hobby and that was my information resource and watering-hole.

I poked around for a few minutes and I did enjoy the debate over counter art (and the fact that there are isometric vs. side view vs. top view camps was just icing on the cake) in the counters thread, but I didn't bother reading much of anything else after realizing how the threads were(n't) organized.

Check this out to see how little their site's changed since 1999.

Gary Sax wrote: Also, FWIW, it looks like Adam from MMP has decided to start a monthly promotion thread with info on BGG, in case you don't feel like plumbing the horrid depths of CSW every day.

www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/115354/th...kweather-for-january

That reminds me of Adam's brief dalliance here, wherein I think he got pissed off at all of us for not pre-ordering.

On the other hand, I remain unconvinced that pre-ordering at MMP means jack shit to anyone, especially MMP.

Between that and the fact that I'm not interested in ASL, I'll keep spending what little money I put into the wargame market into GMT's titles instead of more WWII bullshit. GMT can at least ship, and they seem to find and publish titles I want.

(of course, anybody making marketing judgements based on my wargaming choices is a damn fool.)

Not Sure wrote: On the other hand, I remain unconvinced that pre-ordering at MMP means jack shit to anyone, especially MMP.

To wit: Kingdom of Heaven goes on preorder in 2007 (!!), hits the preorder target in June 2009, and as of this moment it's still touch-and-go on whether it'll reach people's doorsteps in March 2012.