Help me decide: Angola or AA

Need some help from the wargamers among you: angola or andean abyss?

both games sound fascinating and cover unusual conflicts

one sounds easier to learn (don't know if that is true, though)

one sounds like there is a lot of tug of war but not always in a good way - AA

both have horrendously long playtimes

one is a legend, the other, one day?

one is 4 player only, the other more or less but features solo game (with an ai that may or may not be hard)

stuck :/

thx scissors

Haven't played Angola, but can give some insight on Andean Abyss;

If you take one propoganda card out and shorten the deck a little (as suggested in the rule book for a shorter game) it plays in about 3-4hours.

It really is 4 player imo, two player splitting the factions between the two players works ok, and solo is ok. With 3 you have to let the 'AI' control the 4th and this means stopping to consult a flow chart and rolling a die every few minutes. Also the AI decisions can be open to debate.

I found AA easyish to learn. The rules are a little counter intuitive in places but there is a really good example of play. It is however really easy to teach. The games interface has been influenced by games such as Eclipse and all the information you need to play is either on the board, or on your faction specific player aid, so there is minimal digging through the rule book.

I really like it. I like that it gives asymetrical objectives to the players that cause alliances to shift based on your aims rather than who you feel most comfortable trusting.

I'd love to play Angola, but i think i would struggle to get British folks to play a game about a war in Africa (colonial guilt).

I haven't played Andean Abyss, but Angola is an excellent game. It also isn't "horrendously long" - where did you get that from?

Angola is more of a pure wargame, AA isn't. Angola will eventually be out of print and it will take 25 years to re-print it. AA is part of the coin series so you can pick up Cuba, Afganistan or Vietnam or what ever conflict your interested in future years.

Some games may be as good as Angola, but none are better.

thx for the help - Schweig! - the consensus seems to be that angola takes 8 hrs. these days that is a very long game for me

DukeofChutney wrote: I'd love to play Angola, but i think i would struggle to get British folks to play a game about a war in Africa (colonial guilt).

Colonial guilt? I thought that went out in the 1960's.

I certainly don't feel guilty about all the bad things my forebears did and neither should anyone else. Your nation does not define you.

Neither. I'm waiting on Cuba Libre and the Successors reprint.

Successors is a lot of fun, and the advantage it has over Angola is that it's possible to wrap the game up in 4 hours (but I'd plan on 6). The only problem with the game for me is the chrome rules. Angola is way more streamlined, and the rules never get in the way of gameplay. Unless you play Successors regularly you'll probably be looking things up regularly, and someone at the table is certain to forget a rule. I made a player aid (files section at BGG) which should help.

ThirstyMan wrote:

DukeofChutney wrote: I'd love to play Angola, but i think i would struggle to get British folks to play a game about a war in Africa (colonial guilt).

Colonial guilt? I thought that went out in the 1960's.

I certainly don't feel guilty about all the bad things my forebears did and neither should anyone else. Your nation does not define you.

I know you wouldn't thirsty, and neither do i. But if turned up to my gaming group with a copy of Angola, i recon i would get a lot of strange reactions and no one wanting to play. I think its embedded in to part of the British psyci, too much watching of the BBC. Also the wonga coup and stuff like that. Speaking of which the Wonga Coup would make a great subject for a game.

scissors wrote: thx for the help - Schweig! - the consensus seems to be that angola takes 8 hrs. these days that is a very long game for me

8 hours!? Only with a serious amount of trash talking would it take that long. I'd say it runs more along the lines of 5 hours.

By the way, Angola was a Portuguese colony, so no need for English colonial guilt.

i know that. Its not a logical issue. Its a, what your going to play a game about an issue we are all wired to be sensitive about thing.

I can't imagine planning for less than 8 hours for Angola for the first game myself. Don't forget dinner/lunch too, and walking the dog, so maybe 9 hours is better.

Schweig! wrote:

scissors wrote: thx for the help - Schweig! - the consensus seems to be that angola takes 8 hrs. these days that is a very long game for me

8 hours!? Only with a serious amount of trash talking would it take that long. I'd say it runs more along the lines of 5 hours.

By the way, Angola was a Portuguese colony, so no need for English colonial guilt.

We routinely finish in under five hours ( and thats if the game goes the full ten turns ) . We played a game that we called via sudden death midway through the seventh turn at PrezCon that took 3.5 hours . I'd shoot myself if a game went nine hours .

I do agree that the first game will take longer. But the same holds true for Andean Abyss . In fact I think AA tends to be much slower the first time around - it has somewhat unusual mechanics, on top of a non conventional situation - once you figure out HOW to do stuff, then you have to figure out WHAT to do. While Angola is somewhat unusual at first glance, it makes sense pretty quickly after awhile . A group that feels the need to budget nine hours for Angola will similarly crawl through the first game of Andean Abyss, guaranteed.

AA does have the plus of flexibility in terms of number of players . Angola is strictly a four player game . I suppose you could play two player, but there are tons of other options.

Overall I like Angola a lot better. I've probably logged ten plays since the game came out less than a year ago, whereas AA I've played maybe half that.

One plus for Andean Abyss is that once you learn the system, the games in the pipeline ( Afghanistan, Cuba, and Vietnam ) will be much easier to learn .

I guess this means my group needs to play Angola again asap to settle this issue We've only played once. I would love it if we could fit it into a long evening.